10 replies to this topic

[SteveRestless]

Still waiting for the PTS client to install, but I want to throw out there that I don't even have to play to say that making autocannons, gauss weapons lasers and ppcs all draw the same is a bad idea.

MWO accomplished something I'd never seen before in any incarnation of battletech.

it made the AC/5 and Ultra AC/5 usable. even useful.

I'm a rabid tabletop player and unless you're roleplaying and inventing non-mechanical reasons, there's really never any occasion on which it becomes better, more advantageous, to use a AC/5 than a PPC.

This is going to wreck that delicate balance.

Additionally, it makes no sense for gausses, autocannons and missiles to draw as much heat as they do, the whole point of those weapons is that they have a lower heat draw than energy weapons. But if a Gauss Rifle does 15 points directr fire damage and depletes 15 points of energy, that makes it as hot as any other weapon, yet, it has the distinct disadvantage of being burdened with ammo consumption. If anything the gauss ought to be lower energy draw than a PPC (or, a mechanic for recharge-over-time ought to be introduced) but higher than an autocannon which is deriving it's propulsion from chemical energy

Third, the way this is set up, the energy bar is just really complicated extra heat. Right down to a deficit of energy being able to kill you.

What if, instead, energy was a second resource like heat that you had to manage, with penalties such as slower movement, slower twist or arm seeking because your mech doesn't have enough energy to act on your commands as the bar is depleted. But when you run out of energy, you're just at diminished speed and responsiveness until your power climbs back up.no needing to worry about dying by your own hand.

Lastly, I think a far simpler answer to extending the length of combat and forcing people to consider their loadouts and their firing patterns far better would be to go back to the tabletop's standard 10 second turn for weapon cycle times. Right now, I can probably hammer out three or four PPC shots in the ten it takes to fire once on the tabletop.I'd consider it ideal, if the heat and energy rode balanced and usable when weapons were fired once every 10 seconds. or if recycle times were just adjusted so that was the order of the day.

More feedback once this client finishes installing and I can actually test it.

[FupDup]

The entire point of "energy draw" is to impose a limit on weapons that aren't normally limited by heat.

[davoodoo]

FupDup, on 22 August 2016 - 03:25 PM, said:

The entire point of "energy draw" is to impose a limit on weapons that aren't normally limited by heat.

And it targeted weapons which are lmited only by heat.
AKA laservomit clan mechs...
Which btw would be underarmed heat neutral setups in tt...
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8ca95a510da3dc0
50 heat dissipation while 2 lpls produce 10 each, 20 total and 4 ermeds produce 5 each 20 total. Youre still 10 heat ahead while this tonnage could be used to extra weaponry...

You cant mount 6 ac5 on any mech in the game, even 100 ton direwhale can pack at best 5 of them and ghost heat already limited uac10 and uac20...

Also its not like pgi nerfed ac5s by giving them 2.3s cooldown when ac10 got 2.6s just because THEY WERENT AFFECTED BY ED.

Edited by davoodoo, 22 August 2016 - 03:42 PM.

[Gaden Phoenix]

Boating U/ACs is not just useful, it is downright lethal. So much so that a U/AC Direwolf or Kodiak is near automatically king of the hill. And if the player is a good one, just too d@rn OPed.

Thus I am all for ED ensuring that spamming large amounts of U/ACs is harder.

You might say there is an ammo limit. But again a smart U/AC spammer makes sure to bring more then enough in a match. More then enough to spam enough people into submission.

Dakka Dakka DPS is so constantly higher then most other builds, and easier to achieve those numbers, that for me, there is an issue to fix.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 22 August 2016 - 03:48 PM.

[FupDup]

davoodoo, on 22 August 2016 - 03:31 PM, said:

And it targeted weapons which are lmited only by heat.
...

I was referring to the "intention" of the system rather than the current PTS outcome.

[davoodoo]

FupDup, on 22 August 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

I was referring to the "intention" of the system rather than the current PTS outcome.

As soon as i heard "30 dmg alphas" which was months ago ive already seen threads confirming what was known to me, that it wont affect dakka and is designed to curb laservomit and laservomit alone...

Idk what was intention, but if what you speak was truly itnention then whoever came up with it should be handed scarlet letter within balance departments of gaming industry.
Thats how delusional that is.

Edited by davoodoo, 22 August 2016 - 03:49 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Gaden Phoenix, on 22 August 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Boating U/ACs is not just useful, it is downright lethal. So much so that a U/AC Direwolf or Kodiak is near automatically king of the hill. And if the player is a good one, just too d@rn OPed.

Thus I am all for ED ensuring that spamming large amounts of U/ACs is harder.

You might say there is an ammo limit. But again a smart U/AC spammer makes sure to bring more then enough in a match. More then enough to spam enough people into submission.

Dakka Dakka DPS is so constantly higher then most other builds, and easier to achieve those numbers, that for me, there is an issue to fix.

Funny that you should mention the only mechs actually capable of boating large autocannons. Yes, ideally those two SHOULD be kings of such a concept, as they're really the only ones that can do it. It's hardly an epidemic on the live server. Most mechs would be lucky to mount two large autocannons. How are those guys doing out on the live server? Dominating much? No? Awww fudge, well there goes that whole line of reasoning.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 22 August 2016 - 03:54 PM.

[Gaden Phoenix]

ScarecrowES, on 22 August 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

Funny that you should mention the only mechs actually capable of boating large autocannons. Yes, ideally those two SHOULD be kings of such a concept, as they're really the only ones that can do it. It's hardly an epidemic on the live server. Most mechs would be lucky to mount two large autocannons. How are those guys doing out on the live server? Dominating much? No? Awww fudge, well there goes that whole line of reasoning.

Yes I would say they are dominating much. My friend, The Trap, plays Dakka Dakka Direwolf(s) exclusively and he getting average 1000 dmg in a match even if his/our team sucks.

I have not yet seen any Dakka Dakka Direwolf get out dps-ed even by more then double it's weight and (non-uac) weapons in mechs shooting at it. And seeing as people run very fast in this game, it is really hard to kill unless you have a coordinated team that put in the effort and sacrifice to kill one.

Just because, everyone kills the Dakka mech first, does not mean that they are not better. It just means people know it's potential.

It also means that the Direwolf and Kodiak are the best Assault mechs out there, thanks to U/ACs boating.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 22 August 2016 - 04:04 PM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Gaden Phoenix, on 22 August 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Thus I am all for ED ensuring that spamming large amounts of U/ACs is harder.

Does it, though? Seems to me if everyone is playing the 30 damage every 1.5 seconds game that UAC boats are in a good place, since they can play that game forever. Also 4xUAC10s can do more than that for a while.

[UnKnownPlayer]

ScarecrowES, on 22 August 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

Funny that you should mention the only mechs actually capable of boating large autocannons. Yes, ideally those two SHOULD be kings of such a concept, as they're really the only ones that can do it. It's hardly an epidemic on the live server. Most mechs would be lucky to mount two large autocannons. How are those guys doing out on the live server? Dominating much? No? Awww fudge, well there goes that whole line of reasoning.

Dont you play FP? because the clan Kodiak rushes with multi UACs are almost impossible to stop, an organised unit can defeat pugs using them but an organised unit of clanners in UAC mechs are obscenely overpowered. I also have EBJs and DWFs and have fit them with the UACs and *I* feel like they are overpowered when I'm using them.

[Reno Blade]

regarding the thread title:

http://mwomercs.com/...ns-for-ed-pts2/
and
http://mwomercs.com/...-ppfld-weapons/
should answer enough.

And regarding why ballistics should draw energy at all, just think of it as some kind of shock absorber, stabilizers and more stress for the myomer muscles to keep the mech stable because of recoil. Fluff ftw