96 replies to this topic

[Stone Wall]

I am so glad it was removed. I remember having to pick Trial Mechs because I didn't have enough C Bills to repair.

May have been a driving force for me leaving.

[Kirkland Langue]

Cbills are a measure of games played.
Repair costs were flat.

All players are basically in one bucket for matchmaking.
Therefore, every player will want to use the same quality of mechs - in order to compete.

The only way R&R can work is if there are multiple tiers. That way players can play in a "tier" that suits their wealth - and still be competitive against the other players in that tier.

Edited by Kirkland Langue, 25 August 2016 - 10:03 PM.

[Rebas Kradd]

Deathlike, on 23 August 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

R&R literally has to be designed as a reward system... not as a punishment system. Otherwise, we're just going to repeat past problems with the previous base design.

Or be placed in a contained campaign setting where everyone is starting over with their coffers. It's a single-player mechanic that doesn't work well in a multiplayer environment. I'd really like to find a way to make it work, though.

[RAM]

Pjwned, on 25 August 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

Wow, I guess it worked so well that there's no need to explain how it did indeed work well, and obviously all arguments to the contrary are automatically wrong.

Pretty much, exactly.


RAM
ELH

[DovisKhan]

With Trial mechs that don't require RŲR this COULD work


If you suck you could play in your trial mechs, if you're really good you would have enough Cbills to sustain a fleet of non Trial mechs, that would really stroke some egos, cause if you saw a guy with a custom paintjob, you'd know he's good, it'd also make him a target


Also, salvaging/scavenging would have to yield much greater rewards, as in staying alive and killing several mechs should yield - [killed mech price - price of the components that were destroyed]


This type of gameplay would truly be rewarding and would also not be that punishing, since you could always drop in a fresh trial mech

[Davers]

legatoblues, on 25 August 2016 - 05:25 AM, said:

Sorry if I've missed it, but no mention of it often being more profitable for players to run out of bounds and suicide at the very start of ever match?

Yeah, or overheating themselves. At least one every match it seemed.

[Joseph Mallan]

MoonUnitBeta, on 23 August 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

Yep.

If we had proper salvage (getting weapons, armor, omnipods, chunks of mechs, etc etc etc.) and a market to sell items on, R&R would have a place as one of the forces driving market prices. Creating a healthy demand for players wanting to circumnavigate repair costs from damage and the cost of new items. Adjusting the cost of repairs will have it's effect on the market, but a happy medium could create an alternative way to save, and even earn, c-bills.

Without that though, R&R is arbitrary as it doesn't fulfill any special needs that a simple c-bill income reduction can't already do.

There is a way to avoid the whole Market system. The items sold, are worth 75% of new (for instance) not a auction system.

[Davers]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 August 2016 - 03:17 AM, said:

There is a way to avoid the whole Market system. The items sold, are worth 75% of new (for instance) not a auction system.

Omg...Joe? Is that really you?

[Pjwned]

RAM, on 25 August 2016 - 11:42 PM, said:

Pretty much, exactly.


RAM
ELH

Well I guess it's time to pack it up then, obviously there's no good reason whatsoever to hold back repair & rearm any longer so it should come back with a vengeance right away!

[RAM]

Pjwned, on 26 August 2016 - 05:02 AM, said:

Well I guess it's time to pack it up then, obviously there's no good reason whatsoever to hold back repair & rearm any longer so it should come back with a vengeance right away!

Yes; nor should it ever have been removed


RAM
ELH

[FrozenAnt]

I remember buying the Yen-Lo-Wang and Cents Specifically because I sucked. Standard engine, no DHS, No Endo No FF. 2ML, and Maybe some missiles. Then I bought a raven and I played 10 games in Cents to 1 game in a raven because it was "high tech" I never liked assaults so I didn't even screw around there.

But it was fun. I know i read somewhere in lore that the reason mediums and lights where so common was specifically because of the cost. From what I gather the BattleTech universe wasn't "super shiny efficient high tech world". It was "down, dirty, in the mud, duct tape that **** and make it work." Exactly what free ammo and going in w no armor is.

It was so different. It felt cool to be in clunker. I know I don't don't have super elite skill. So I was a body for the elite players that happened to drop with me. I'm cool with that. Most average players (I'm calling myself an average player) just want to participate. We don't need to feel the e-peen of driving an assault or getting 500 dmg. The whole E-peen thing comes from elites, average players are not those people, we have no e-peens. We just want something fun and different. For us going into a fight with no armor is FUN, bringing crappy mechs vs other crappy mechs in a low tech brawl is FUN. being scrappy as hell was FUN.

I could zombie it up because there where only a handful of mechs that had overwhelming firepower. When I saw a assault i thought "King of the battlefield." Now it's just another mech. Want to increase TTK? Make big load outs expensive.

When you first start in Hearthstone do you get access to all the cards? No. Does that limit what you can play? Yes... Can you eventually play what you want? Yes. How does it prevent new deck newbs vs fully customized decks? Matchmaker. Does it punish you when you lose? MM rating.
How successful is Hearthstone?

R&R needs to be put back in with tweaks of course. It was the thing that made MWO different. Elites can say all you want about punishing the poor newbs, imbalanced matches, free ammo and whatever. But from the average perspective. That was fun.

P.S. When energy draw comes out. I'm frankly not going to care. Its just going to be another bar to me. My load outs will stay the same because I like them. I'm not trying to chase the meta. I'm chasing fun. Wasted time imo.

[Yosharian]

repair & rearm was back when PGI was still trying to make this a sim game

[MadcatX]

FrozenAnt, on 26 August 2016 - 06:24 AM, said:

When you first start in Hearthstone do you get access to all the cards? No. Does that limit what you can play? Yes... Can you eventually play what you want? Yes. How does it prevent new deck newbs vs fully customized decks? Matchmaker. Does it punish you when you lose? MM rating.
How successful is Hearthstone?

R&R needs to be put back in with tweaks of course. It was the thing that made MWO different. Elites can say all you want about punishing the poor newbs, imbalanced matches, free ammo and whatever. But from the average perspective. That was fun.

Punishing bad play (or the player's skill) via what their rank is, that makes good sense. Punishing bad play (or the player's skill) by slowing their ability to obtain the resources necessary to obtain content (Cards or Mechs), horrible.

How would the hearthstone community react if their most tricked out deck, the one they used dust to buy individual cards for, they were arbitrarily locked out of now and again, being told to go play one of their less powerful decks for a couple matches?

R&R made MWO different. Your experience in gaming, especially anything F2P, seems a bit limited. R&R is not a rare phenomenon.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Partially because ppl would cheat the system by jumping back into a game without doing either and didnt care if they died, and partially because if you were bad enough, it could prevent you from playing at all (ie you cant afford the costs)

[FrozenAnt]

Mechs to are not content at a certain point. Weapons, Equipment, Maps, Game Modes these things are content.

Think of Overwatch. If you allowed all of the characters skills to be put on another character, then you could just have 1 generic body. It's the same with Mechs. The only reason Overwatch and LoL's characters are content is because they have completely different skills and abilities. Here in MWO my medium laser on an atlas is the same medium laser that i put on my locust.

Having weight classes, mechs that can eqiup JJ's ones that can't, things like that I'll consider content</p>

You are right, in Hearthstone that would be terrible because in a card game collecting cards is content. It's the same reason why In Magic The Gathering they have to release new cards every season. So that may have been a bad example on my part.

However you are right, "R&R is not a rare phenomenon." In WoW and related MMO's you have to Repair you gear, if you don't have enough money you can't use it. Happened to Warriors in raids all the time. No riots or anything happened. The went out and farmed for raids...Wow and many other MMO's have an economy based on these things. EVEs game is based on the economy.

It would make MWO unique in the sense that when you combine the mechs, the eqiupment, the maps, the gameplay, the R&R would give you a BattleTech atmosphere. Tons of cheap fighting machines, and a few awesomesauce ones. It gives another mechanic that all players understand, to use for balance. Using it to balance is pretty unique id say, even in my limited experience.

It's better than making Introducing the mathwarrior power draw solution

Edited by FrozenAnt, 26 August 2016 - 10:10 AM.

[Mechteric]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 26 August 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

Partially because ppl would cheat the system by jumping back into a game without doing either and didnt care if they died, and partially because if you were bad enough, it could prevent you from playing at all (ie you cant afford the costs)

Haha yeah I had forgotten about that too, there would be zombie mechs!


R&R was just bad for PUG play, the only way it would ever work is for some kind of alternate hardcore/CW mode only.

[Stone Wall]

CapperDeluxe, on 26 August 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

Haha yeah I had forgotten about that too, there would be zombie mechs!


R&R was just bad for PUG play, the only way it would ever work is for some kind of alternate hardcore/CW mode only.

Yep, would have good in a planetary mode.