9 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

I think we are at the point were the 4vs4 test server just does not work well for balance. 4vs4 is a different game than 12vs12. And 4vs4 without tonnage limits on a test server with no matchmaking is of limited help.

For example they are trying to balance SRMs this way. SRMs are stronger in 4vs4 and are stronger when people want to close the distance and test things. And they are stronger with a mixed group where maybe they cant hit your griffin etc well. But an SRMs will be a lot more hit or miss in 12vs12 games where lots of people have range and can aim etc.

Russ needs to just bribe the player base to get on the test server and test things. Or figure out a way to get a lot of decent players on and bribe them to do 12vs12 testing.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 23 August 2016 - 11:18 PM.

[Tiantara]

XX Sulla XX, on 23 August 2016 - 11:17 PM, said:

I think we are at the point were the 4vs4 test server just does not work well for balance. 4vs4 is a different game than 12vs12. And 4vs4 without tonnage limits on a test server with no matchmaking is of limited help.

- On PTS you can use Private Lobby for start game 8 vs 8 on any map you can get from map list. Even all from FW.
Difference between 1vs12 and 8vs8 not so big. One problem - here not so much people who can or want test something in one time to group up and do that.
My advice - make a group, go to Private Lobby (since you have unlimited Prime Time on PTS) and do the test in all map.
Best of it - you can take all mech, or only some class, make tonnage restriction or take them off...

Edited by Tiantara, 24 August 2016 - 12:08 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

The problem is, SOMEONE keeps playing some random mixed builds on the test server, finds them acceptable by some arbitrary metric (probably just that you can avoid heat penalty even if you have to stare) and then declares them "effective builds" when in fact most will likely be garbage in a 12v12 match with matchmaking.

[Lostdragon]

4v4 requires way less ammo and staying power so builds that work for it often won't be as great in 12v12. The builds I play in Scouting matches are a lot different than what I play in QP.

Edited by Lostdragon, 24 August 2016 - 07:52 AM.

[Tiantara]

Lostdragon, on 24 August 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:

4v4 requires way less ammo and staying power so builds that work for it often won't be as great in 12v12. The builds I play in Scouting matches are a lot different than what I play in QP.

- We still have 8 vs 8 possibility to test... I tried to get 16 people again to make a few match or encourage to do that anyone who post here about bad 4 vs 4... but still no luck. I got lucky to do 6 game 6 vs 7on first PTS, but not now...
Maybe we need make a post to collect people who want go into group and make test.
But now I got to Live, to check some ideas.

Edited by Tiantara, 24 August 2016 - 07:59 AM.

[jweltsch]

Tiantara, on 24 August 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

- We still have 8 vs 8 possibility to test... I tried to get 16 people again to make a few match or encourage to do that anyone who post here about bad 4 vs 4... but still no luck. I got lucky to do 6 game 6 vs 7on first PTS, but not now...
Maybe we need make a post to collect people who want go into group and make test.
But now I got to Live, to check some ideas.

Even 8v8 is a lot different from 12v12 and I agree that this is causing problems in players calling some things "viable" that would likely get you slagged in12v12

[Tiantara]

jweltsch, on 24 August 2016 - 11:23 AM, said:

Even 8v8 is a lot different from 12v12 and I agree that this is causing problems in players calling some things "viable" that would likely get you slagged in12v12

- In real quick game PUG play at least 2 mech run off and 2 too slow to run with all group so really we have battle of 8 vs 7 or 8 vs 9 + some fresh mech who stop run and come to play. In group play - we get at least 1 lance who go off... Or just 2 player DC...

[Andi Nagasia]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 August 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

The problem is, SOMEONE keeps playing some random mixed builds on the test server, finds them acceptable by some arbitrary metric (probably just that you can avoid heat penalty even if you have to stare) and then declares them "effective builds" when in fact most will likely be garbage in a 12v12 match with matchmaking.

well lets face it most of us arnt jumping on the PTS saying (OK Team lets win this Match),
we are all just trying things out to see how things changed, and how we can mix it up, finding problems in it,
much like how we figured out the Gauss Loop hole of PTS1, which has beed solved-ish by increasing energy for Gauss,

[Cy Mitchell]

XX Sulla XX, on 23 August 2016 - 11:17 PM, said:

I think we are at the point were the 4vs4 test server just does not work well for balance. 4vs4 is a different game than 12vs12. And 4vs4 without tonnage limits on a test server with no matchmaking is of limited help.

For example they are trying to balance SRMs this way. SRMs are stronger in 4vs4 and are stronger when people want to close the distance and test things. And they are stronger with a mixed group where maybe they cant hit your griffin etc well. But an SRMs will be a lot more hit or miss in 12vs12 games where lots of people have range and can aim etc.

Russ needs to just bribe the player base to get on the test server and test things. Or figure out a way to get a lot of decent players on and bribe them to do 12vs12 testing.

I agree that there needs to be testing done with 12v12 to get a real feel for the new system. Certainly that needs to happen before it goes live if not during these preliminary stages of testing.

[Navid A1]

4v4 play is worlds different from actual 12 v 12 with active matchmaking.

Gameplay feedback on energy draw are heavily affected by this (intentional?)

Based on what I've been testing... this ED will be a disaster on live server.