4 replies to this topic

[kapusta11]

Seriously, why not create a linked penalty group for medium and large lasers? Why not do the same thing with Gauss and PPCs? Why not increase GH cap for cER LL to 3?


It's not individual weapons that cause problems (at least in some people's minds) it's WEAPON COMBINATIONS and Ghost Heat is a much better mechanic when it comes to addressing them.

Energy draw penalizes weapon combos by tweaking INDIVIDUAL weapons stats (mainly draw values). It's a fundamental design failure. It treats all weapons the same. It doesn't punish weapon combinations any more than mixed loadouts and thus does not encourage the latter in any way. Several weapons of the same type are MUCH better then one or two and linear increase in energy draw as you add more weapons doesn't help changing that.

Meanwhile, GH is a top down balancing tool that has no effect unless you go overboard with you build.




In essence, ED is a TT heat system wannabe, a much worse version of it. And the idea of placing it on top of what we have right now is kinda ridiculous.

I was willing to give it a chance before it went on PTS and people were like "Dude, it's PGI" but with it having fundamental flaws like this I guess they were right after all.

Rant over.

Edited by kapusta11, 24 August 2016 - 12:36 PM.

[TheCharlatan]

Simple answer:
GH is a convoluted and hard to understand system, full of exceptions, heavy penalties for some things and manageable penalties for others.
ED is much simpler: each weapon gets a valor in it's description, every mech has 30 points of energy, you get a penalty if you use more than 30 points for an alpha, which is always the same regardless of weapon used, as long as the energy consumed is the same. This is basic math.
The TT heat system (penalties excepted, which should really be in the game IMO) does not solve the problems with AC boating and Gauss.

ED is not perfect, but it's still in the works, and hopefully we can make PGI do something decent with it.
With GH, all we could do was make it even more complex and convoluted.

Edit: i understand what you mean by saying "the problem is weapon combination", but what that does mean in the end is: uber-alphas. ED tries to cut on alphas. If it didn't work like that, people would just find the next "highest possible alpha" that worked around GH and stick to it.

Edited by TheCharlatan, 24 August 2016 - 08:09 AM.

[kapusta11]

TheCharlatan, on 24 August 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:

Simple answer:
GH is a convoluted and hard to understand system, full of exceptions, heavy penalties for some things and manageable penalties for others.
ED is much simpler: each weapon gets a valor in it's description, every mech has 30 points of energy, you get a penalty if you use more than 30 points for an alpha, which is always the same regardless of weapon used, as long as the energy consumed is the same. This is basic math.
The TT heat system (penalties excepted, which should really be in the game IMO) does not solve the problems with AC boating and Gauss.

ED is not perfect, but it's still in the works, and hopefully we can make PGI do something decent with it.
With GH, all we could do was make it even more complex and convoluted.

Edit: i understand what you mean by saying "the problem is weapon combination", but what that does mean in the end is: uber-alphas. ED tries to cut on alphas. If it didn't work like that, people would just find the next "highest possible alpha" that worked around GH and stick to it.

How is Ghost Heat convoluted? It's basically a list of how many weapons of particular type you can fire simultaneously.

You know what I call convoluted? To take original TT heat system, with low heat cap and high dissipation, throw heat scale with penalties down the window, turn it into low dissipation, high cap system and then add another low (energy) cap, high (draw) dissipation system on top of that.

At that point, why not introduce TT heat system where you have heat cap that is dependant on the amount of heat sinks you have and where weapon heat values act as "energy" drawn by the weapon and you have actual heat scale penalties instead of 1 heat for 1 energy above max? Keep GH to limit Gauss and AC boating, it does the job just fine.

I see a lot of people complaining about constant alpha striking? I have a question for them: what game are you playing? You do realize that laser boats have HORRIBLE sustained dps? Any half decent team will just push you and you won't be able to fight back. You fire 2 alphas in your laser boat, enemy spread them by torso twisting and then you're done. Really, are you solo dropping 100% of the time or what? Have you played in group queue where teams try to close in as much as possible while using cover and then BAM! They overwhelm you with 12 targets within LoS, 300m away from you.Try to deal with that in your OP laser vomit mechs.

Seriously, if you're bad, ED won't save you.

Edited by kapusta11, 24 August 2016 - 12:29 PM.

[davoodoo]

TheCharlatan, on 24 August 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:

Simple answer:
GH is a convoluted and hard to understand system, full of exceptions, heavy penalties for some things and manageable penalties for others.

I want to take mix of srm4 and srm 6, how many of each i can take so i can alpha tire without hitting ed ghost heat??

UI for gh will tell me its 4, ui for ed...theres no ui for that purpose in ed...

Or show me how much energy does ac5 draw without looking at patch notes...

Like i said, if i need to read wall of text from patch notes i can easily read this color coded table
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale

Edited by davoodoo, 24 August 2016 - 08:55 AM.

[JC Daxion]

kapusta11, on 24 August 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

How is Ghost Heat convoluted? It's basically a list of how many weapons of particular type you can fire simultaneously.

and how is that any different than power draw? it is a limit on the number of weapons you can fire at once.. Is it because you can't fire different weapon types, and get around ghost heat completely?

davoodoo, on 24 August 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Or show me how much energy does ac5 draw without looking at patch notes...

This can be easily done by adding it to the GUI, in the weapons stats... Just like heat, damage, and cool down. you can memorize that X weapon makes X heat.. How hard is it to know that X weapon has 6 heat, 5 damage, and 8 power?