56 replies to this topic

[IntruderGeo]

Don't get me wrong, I love this game and it's detailed mechanics.

It feels like I'm piloting a Battlesuit instead of a gigantic walking tank.
Heavy mechs seem to be just overloaded weapons which are frequently outmaneuvered by a single light mech. That's just wrong. Four or five lights, yeah, I can see that, but not 1.

If just the animations slowed to, say, half their current speed, everything else might increase in value.
The maps would seem bigger, weapons would seem stronger, and it might actually take three or four lights to threaten a heavy.

Like I said, no griefing, just an observation.
Maybe it's like this because the players who spend money want it that way.
Why else spend real money for "Mech Mastery"?

[Khobai]

then why would anyone play lights?

[3xnihilo]

Most heavy mechs, when outfitted properly, should have no trouble tracking a light mech. Some of the slower assaults have trouble, but this is by design. The balance structure of MWO is supposed to be assaults>heavies>mediums>lights>assaults. It actually doesn't work this way all the time as lights tend to be the weakest class overall (despite many claims to the contrary on this forum). The Heavy class of mech is easily the strongest class as a whole as it has the perfect blend of firepower, armor, and agility. The argument has been made many times that heavies are too agile and that a reduction of their agility would allow a reduction of speed/agility across the board to achieve the "giant robot" feel that some people are looking for. Slowing down lights would not do anything other than get rid of even more light pilots (the least popular weight class).

[3xnihilo]

Khobai, on 27 August 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

then why would anyone play lights?

It is a little disturbing to me that lately it seems like there is a rather outspoken group on the forums that would be happy if there really were nobody running lights at all. Or maybe 1 or 2 to stand off to the side and provide locks for the LRMS. (Not trying to include OP here as this is his/her first post).

[Exard3k]

Over time you learn how to counter lights and get appropriate weapons to kill them or at least scare them off. A good aimed volley from medium pulse lasers or SRMs will make the light think twice about engaging you once more. Streak SRMs are maybe the most powerful weapon to field when fighting small mechs, although IS side don't have any except for the small S-SRM2.

Lights are vultures most of the time, so stay close to your team to not be an easy target ,lock the light mech so your teammates know whats going on.

[Gabbatek]

i like the fact that i have to be very careful about lights coming and alpha striking my back, especially in a direwolf!

Thats why i keep close to a wall, so when they hit i quickly back up so they can't do anything then i alpha a leg away.

In my spiritbear, i just tap the masc to increase my turn rate when they try to backshot me

[Kin3ticX]

https://docs.google.....g4f32fbbd0_360

[TheArisen]

Most heavy mechs should be able to handle a single light. The thing you've got to remember is light mechs are about half the weight or less of a heavy, they're going to be much more agile but also lack armor. Hitreg can be annoying & hitting the same torso can be tricky but if you have good aim you can easily dispatch most any light.

[IntruderGeo]

Khobai, on 27 August 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

then why would anyone play lights?

3xnihilo, on 27 August 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

It is a little disturbing to me that lately it seems like there is a rather outspoken group on the forums that would be happy if there really were nobody running lights at all. Or maybe 1 or 2 to stand off to the side and provide locks for the LRMS. (Not trying to include OP here as this is his/her first post).

I posted to see what other players thought. No feathers ruffled.

The first reply is clearly from a player of a certain stance. Yours is another view.

Wouldn't it be enjoyable if the playing field were, say, four times larger and the light lance had the important job of locating an opposing force in order to give the rest of the company a better tactical advantage?

Every MWO battle starts with a Cavalry Charge. Doesn't that get old?

[DAYLEET]

IntruderGeo, on 27 August 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

Heavy mechs seem to be just overloaded weapons which are frequently outmaneuvered by a single light mech. Thats just wrong

Ya it is wrong, once you learn your mech, the enemy mech, it wont happen again. even a 54kph assault can keep a light off his back if hes smart enough to not stray to far from a wall, then the best a light can do is either take terrible trade or leave.

IntruderGeo, on 27 August 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

If just the animations slowed to, say, half their current speed, everything else might increase in value.
The maps would seem bigger, weapons would seem stronger, and it might actually take three or four lights to threaten a heavy.

Unless you play a hitbox stealth Locust or a srm bomber, a single light isnt much of a threat for a heavy. You shouldnt be dueling but if you are know that lights that engage bigger threat usualy run hot, youve got times, armor and firepower on your side so just stay cool and aim your shot, one good aim can crit a light and send him running.

Edited by DAYLEET, 27 August 2016 - 08:39 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Yet they're the same group who in game start complaining if the lights aren't present on the team, or don't go off and do "light" mech things.

[Mystere]

DAYLEET, on 27 August 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

We are actually trying to lower Time to Kill not Increase it because its way too high already.

Hold on a second! Isn't that the other way around?

[DAYLEET]

Mystere, on 27 August 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:

Hold on a second! Isn't that the other way around?

yes absolutly im ******** please disregard lol its way early for me i think you can found a post i did 6 hours ago before bed thats not even true i play mtg all night wow 2 days passed already i need to sleep =) that didnt even made sense with my point.

Edited by DAYLEET, 27 August 2016 - 08:41 AM.

[Airu]

IntruderGeo, on 27 August 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:

I posted to see what other players thought. No feathers ruffled.

The first reply is clearly from a player of a certain stance. Yours is another view.

Wouldn't it be enjoyable if the playing field were, say, four times larger and the light lance had the important job of locating an opposing force in order to give the rest of the company a better tactical advantage?

Every MWO battle starts with a Cavalry Charge. Doesn't that get old?

So you want all light players to die of boredom and stop playing them. You think pressing R for your team is so much fun and rewards are so great!

Besides I rarely see more than 2 lights on each team, I don't know how it is in lower tiers.

Everyone, and I put emphasis on that, is playing this game to destroy enemy mechs. And a small portion of player base just likes to go about it in a different approach, instead of having tons of armor and weapons, they go for small profile and agility and speed. Now PGI nerfed most of them, turned them into underweight mediums.

No light can go 1v1 against a heavy and even some assaults if the pilot skills are about the same. With all the agility quirks to some assault and heavies, especially clan ones with big engines.

Picking off cored mechs is what most lights do to get good scores.

[Alistair Winter]

IntruderGeo, on 27 August 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I love this game and it's detailed mechanics.
It feels like I'm piloting a Battlesuit instead of a gigantic walking tank.

I agree with this. Everything in this game is too mobile for my taste. But I'm not sure how much PGI can do at this point. If they reduce the Skill Tree bonuses to agility by 50% (e.g. remove the X2 bonus from Elite), it would help a lot, but I'm worried the players would complain.

IntruderGeo, on 27 August 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

Heavy mechs seem to be just overloaded weapons which are frequently outmaneuvered by a single light mech. That's just wrong. Four or five lights, yeah, I can see that, but not 1.

When you consider firepower and armour, heavy mechs are way too maneuverable. Maybe at Tier 5, it doesn't seem like this. But when you deal with increasingly good pilots, light mechs are easier and easier to kill.

I do agree that the Locust is too maneuverable, however. The Locust agility quirks are the 2016 equivalent of the 2015 weapon quirks for the Dragon. They've taken it too far, in a desperate attempt to achieve balance without nerfing heavy mechs. As a result, the Locust moves around like Tinkerbell in Peter Pan. It's just totally unrealistic and dumb.

IntruderGeo, on 27 August 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

If just the animations slowed to, say, half their current speed, everything else might increase in value.
The maps would seem bigger, weapons would seem stronger, and it might actually take three or four lights to threaten a heavy.

Light mechs are already the least popular weight class in the game. If you do that, nobody would play them. You might as well delete them from the game.

Keep in mind that this is a PVP game . You can't just make a whole class of mechs terrible and expect people to play them for fun.

IntruderGeo, on 27 August 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

Like I said, no griefing, just an observation.
Maybe it's like this because the players who spend money want it that way.

The real cashcows in MWO are traditionally the players who bought heavy mechs. That's why:

• The only mech pack ever for light mechs was the Urbanmech, a super special deal for hardcore fans who wanted a funny maskot. Since then, only mediums, heavies and assaults. (Oh, and notice how nobody plays the Urbanmech, basically)
  
• Light mechs have traditionally been the cheapest mechs in MWO. You could buy the lowest, cheapest mech pack from the Invasion, Resistance, Origins or Phoenix packs and you would get a light mech for $20 or $30, but if you wanted a heavy mech, you either had to buy ala carte for $35 or $55, or buy a tier 3 mech pack for $60 or $90.
  
• Heavy mechs are the most popular mechs in MWO and also the most powerful. They generally get the best scores, as PGI has balanced the game to give them the perfect blend of firepower, armor and speed.

[DrxAbstract]

No... No, no, no, no. And no.


It's Fixed Team Size vs. Fixed Team Size without respawns; Unless all Mechs can contribute equally, that includes Lights, you may as well cut out the weight class at the bottom. I dont get what's so hard to grasp about the concept that Lights are not, and should not be, automatically inferior just because they're Lights, nor should you automatically be untouchable to anything less than a pack of them just because you're of the opinion you should be in your *Insert Heavy/Assault Mech name here*. The game is not a tonnage race, nor is it meant to be. Get your head out of the archaic predisposed train of thought and into the here and now: Lights are not to be inferior, relegated to 'scouting' or meant to specifically/only provide the fatties*Insert allusion to self-important people* information so they can fight.

If you want some Lights to be specifically oriented around intel at the expense of straight combat effectiveness then by all means, but some of them need to be for fighting only... And it should NEVER require 3-4 Lights to take down one blasted Heavy/Assault... Never. They're not so important, nor should any weight class be, that a single well-played and built Mech from any weight class cant take down another provided it is designed for:

1. Fighting.
2. Countering what ever loadout/playstyle their opponent is using.

People need to stop attaching this inflated level of importance to Heavies and Assaults as if the advantages they already have arent enough. Nothing you build should be able to beat every possible build of every other Mech, nor should any heavier Mech be an "I-Win" button versus lighter ones.

Period.

[IntruderGeo]

DrxAbstract, on 27 August 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

No... No, no, no, no. And no.

... And it should NEVER require 3-4 Lights to take down one blasted Heavy/Assault... Never. They're not so important, nor should any weight class be, that a single well-played and built Mech from any weight class cant take down another provided it is designed for.....


Period.

Wow.....guess he told me!

[Johnny Z]

Its a deeper game than it first appears. Not everyone is on your side, on these forums or in game.

Assaults are the hardest class to do well in. The slower the mech the tougher it can be to do well in and the more practice it takes to do well.

Want easy mode pilot a Timberwolf going 90 kph and armor and weapons as good as nearly any mech in the game. That or an Arctic Cheetah, same sort of thing.

Topic is made by an Inner Sphere pilot, that's a bit of a hard mode, get used to it.

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 August 2016 - 09:31 AM.

[3xnihilo]

Johnny Z, on 27 August 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

Its a deeper game than it first appears. Not everyone is on your side, on these forums or in game.

Assaults are the hardest class to do well in. The slower the mech the tougher it can be to do well in and the more practice it takes to do well.

Want easy mode pilot a Timberwolf going 90 kph and armor and weapons as good as nearly any mech in the game. That or an Arctic Cheetah, same sort of thing.

Or a KDK-3, that is the closest thing to an easy button the game has right now.

[Johnny Z]

I forgot that one. Yes its very fast for its size packs a lot of firepower and decent armor.

Slower mechs and Inner Sphere mechs can beat these mechs, but it takes more practice and at worste its impossible to get out of bad situations as easy or capitalize on good situations.

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 August 2016 - 09:35 AM.