57 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

ScarecrowES, on 29 August 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

...
Though I wouldn't want PGI to give up. There are better systems out there.
...

Brace for exactly that if ED tanks. Russ doesn't want to work on the rest of the game anymore; he pretty much flat-out said in the Round Table that he wants to shift all his focus onto Faction Play. Frankly I'm amazed we got ED in the first place - Piranha has spent years telling us we're all idiots and that Ghost Heat is an absolutely pitch-perfect balancing mechanism that does just spot-on exactly what it was meant to do.

Either we slap ED into workable shape over several more PTS iterations, or we resign ourselves to dealing with Ghost Heat until the servers shut down.

[Alteran]

1453 R, on 29 August 2016 - 03:45 PM, said:

Ghost Heat hasn't been a real factor in increasing TTK, limiting instagibs, or controlling the game's damage output for many months now. Piloting anything that can't take multiple 50-damage shots is highly contraindicated, what with Sphere 'Mechs having three times their native durability in quirks and Ghost Heat limits being effectively void without actually letting players do what they like on a 'Mech or avoiding the "6 MLs is fine, 7 MLs is suicide" issue.

The problem is that ED doesn't do it either. In testing, all my builds won't change, just how I fire and that is only slightly. I posted already how I can actually get more volleys with my 8 CERM-Laser Nova than now.

The only thing that the PTS2 has right now that is of any kind of interest is the effect of heat on the Mech. The high alpha builds that everyone ******* and whines about is because the weapons are OP for the amount of armor points we have and there is no targeting drift or any effects on our targeting.

[cazidin]

ScarecrowES, on 29 August 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

*shrug*

http://mwomercs.com/...ference-survey/

No strong support, not meeting stated basic design goals, and very good possibility that putting it on the live server will cost PGI money. All VERY good reasons to drop it.

Though I wouldn't want PGI to give up. There are better systems out there.

And by the way... that last line of yours can go both ways, can't it?

Fair point but I see Energy Draw as a replacement to Ghost Heat, something that is a second generation and is better overall than Ghost Heat.

[Gas Guzzler]

1453 R, on 29 August 2016 - 03:45 PM, said:

You can do it. You can't do it every three seconds. Again, Ghost heat is a binary ******** system. It exists as a 'MechLab consideration, not an in-game mechanic you can play around. If your 'Mech is even capable of breaching Ghost Heat limits, most players would consider it a failed design.

Words cannot readily describe how putrid Ghost Heat is. They really can't.


Dire Whales can deal ~2x to 4x the damage of every other non-Kodiak 'Mech in the game. They also have the best armor/structure in the game. yes, they're immobile slugs that can be played around, but heavy and assault 'Mechs being able to double, triple, or more the firepower of any medium or light 'Mech is absolutely a contributor to the overly top-heavy nature of the current game. Neither base heat nor Ghost Heat acts as any realistic kind of limiter on fatbros' abilities to instagib anything below fifty tons, and to cripple most anything with a single heavy spike.

Considering you're also accusing me of being an incompetent hack unable to see my own feet through my sheer, overwhelming scrubness, lemme ask you, Gas - would any competitive player ever take a medium or light 'Mech in any situation or circumstance at all, whatsoever, if most of the usual competitive formats didn't force them to?

I'm betting no. Because larger 'Mechs have enormous advantages in both firepower and durability that the mobility advantage of smaller machines simply cannot readily offset - and I say this as a rabid fan of my lovely new Vipers and someone who has tried very hard, over the years, to be a pretty dedicated fastbro pilot.

In a Viper, I have to outplay a Whale for over a minute to bring it down, I have to play flawlessly to do it, and I have to pray it doesn't have help. The Whale only has to hit me once. Once. In a game dominated by combat without any meaningful objective play, that doesn't seem particularly balanced to me. Maybe it's time to see what happens if the Whale has to hit things twice.



"It's not that bad" in ultracomp 'Mechs with thirty-seven heat sinks and moving 55kph with their 255 engine. In 'Mechs that actually work outside of hyperstratified 8v8 tournament play with strictly enforced tonnage/weight class limitations? In the Mosh Pit where the rest of the game lives? Breaching a Ghost Heat limiter pretty much means you die.



I don't want to play another two years with the radioactive @$$-stain that is Ghost Heat still poisoning my MWO game, either. I get the feeling I'm going to have to, though.




Ghost heat sees absolutely no difference whatsoever between one medium laser and six medium lasers, or anything in between. Fire seven medium lasers and it throws a literally volcanic fit, but fire six medium lasers and Ghost Heat doesn't exist for you. Fire six medium lasers, two large lasers, two AC/10s, a Gauss rifle, a PPC, two LRM-20s, three SRM-6s, an MRM-40, a HAG-40, an Arrow VI, your Titan's Laser Core, your Karasawa beam rifle, and your Hellfire Shotgun(s) at your enemy, all at the same time, and Ghost Heat doesn't exist for you. Sure, that's currently theoretically impossible...but really, does it need to be possible to illustrate the fact that Ghost Heat is bad, it should feel bad, Piranha should feel bad for implementing it, and we NEED NEED NEED NEED NEED NEED NEEEEEED to get rid of it already?


I'll ask again, then: what's the solution, Gas?

The current game largely invalidates 'Mechs below seventy tons. Ghost Heat doesn't even limit alpha damage anymore - the limits have slipped far enough that you could probably eliminate Ghost Heat altogether with no replacement system and not see much change in the game. Sure, PPCs might be a bit more popular again, but you can already throw out as absolutely much damage as you like. Ghost Heat hasn't been a real factor in increasing TTK, limiting instagibs, or controlling the game's damage output for many months now. Piloting anything that can't take multiple 50-damage shots is highly contraindicated, what with Sphere 'Mechs having three times their native durability in quirks and Ghost Heat limits being effectively void without actually letting players do what they like on a 'Mech or avoiding the "6 MLs is fine, 7 MLs is suicide" issue.

I'm clearly too brain-damaged down here in T3 to have any idea how to pull my pants on in the morning, let alone suggest fixes for the game or express an opinion that isn't "bluuughhghghh hahahaha funny birdie!". Got to leave it to our Magnificent T1 Overlords to tell us all what's best for us. A'ight, will do - what's best for us, Gas?

Do you think people aren't going to mechlab around Energy Draw just the same?

Yeah, Dire Wolves will just boat UAC5s so they don't have to worry about Energy Draw as much, along with a TComp instead of the 6th AC5.


Is there an objective reason to take a medium or a light over a heavy/assault? I'm not sure, I think lights can definitely influence the match in a way a heavy or assault never could, but I'm not sure. Honestly, I prefer Heavies and Assaults, so that question might be more appropriate for someone else. There are many competitive people that primarily play lights.

Like I said, the penalty of Energy Draw for 3 cLPL is 9 heat. For Ghost Heat, it is 7.2. Ghost Heat is not unanimously more punitive. 7 Medium Lasers under Energy Draw gives you 5 bonus heat. Under Ghost Heat? 3.2 heat. There is more of volcanic fit in Energy Draw!!

Theoretically impossible, so why do we care whether or not ghost heat covers it? That's like me complaining about the Energy Draw loophole that is 20 Machine Guns, which is 16 stone cold, 0 draw DPS. Its not possible in game, but it means there is an issue with Energy Draw... for some reason? No it doesn't, that's ridiculous.

Ghost heat does prevent you from taking a 12 ton 84 damage alpha on a Nova, instead you have to pay 16 tons and only 54 damage, which, surprise, you can't do on a Nova because it takes too much pod space. Ghost heat does serve to limit the amount of firepower on the field by forcing you to take some heavier weapons along with your light high damage-per-tonnage weapons. Its not completely without purpose in that regard. Most of the insane 60+ damage alphas are extremely hot builds, that aren't even viable anymore, so the fact that they cause so much headache doesn't resonate with me at all.


I actually didn't even mention Tier, I'm more talking about the people who spend hours preparing for competitive matches and are wildly successful at it (not me, currently). Its funny to see one of those people tell people that laser vomit isn't the "OP Meta" anymore, and have them just say "whatever you don't know anything, I see laser vomit in the public queue therefore you don't know anything." Its like, if the best heavy mechs in the game have a 20 damage alpha and a 35 damage alpha respectively, what does that tell you about all the people complaining about 50-70 damage alphas?

Similarly, the best assaults recently have been:

Mauler MX90 - 25 damage
Kodiak - 50 PPFLD or 80 double-tapped quad UAC10s (that last one is no longer relevant, fixed by Ghost Heat, and a double tap is more of a burst than an alpha)

So again "90 damage alphas" is not so much the issue. In fact a struggle to think of the last time 84+ damage alphas have actually been a thing. Not since the fall of the Space Whale, which has been so long I can't even remember. And even that, was on a 52 kph hot as balls death trap that have been commonly embarrassed by light mechs in the public queue.

So yeah, a system that now punishes a 54 damage laser vomit Executioner that was a Tier 2-3 assault mech... yeah, that's BS. I don't want to only play dakka assaults to be competitive, but that is what the community wants until the realize that "Oh, dakka kills me just as fast, its no skill EZ mode". What I suggest? I'm happy with the game, I have fun and don't get insta-gibbed regularly. Weapon balance could be tweaked, mech balance needs some work with outliers taken care of *ahem..Kodiak..cough*, but I don't feel the need for sweeping changes that shoehorn everybody into cool DPS builds or whatever is most Energy Draw efficient.

In short, I don't have all the answers, but this system feels bad, overly restrictive, and that combining all weapons on one energy pool just leads to boating the most efficient weapon. That sucks.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Alteran, on 29 August 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

The problem is that ED doesn't do it either. In testing, all my builds won't change, just how I fire and that is only slightly. I posted already how I can actually get more volleys with my 8 CERM-Laser Nova than now.

The only thing that the PTS2 has right now that is of any kind of interest is the effect of heat on the Mech. The high alpha builds that everyone ******* and whines about is because the weapons are OP for the amount of armor points we have and there is no targeting drift or any effects on our targeting.

Volley-fire doesn't measure to the long-established meta of firing all your weapons and turning to shield, which is what ED targets. ED encourages the need to either fire different groups or chain-fire, which is why your Nova is more effective, although it's balanced because you need to expose yourself to maintain that DPS.

[ScarecrowES]

1453 R, on 29 August 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

Brace for exactly that if ED tanks. Russ doesn't want to work on the rest of the game anymore; he pretty much flat-out said in the Round Table that he wants to shift all his focus onto Faction Play. Frankly I'm amazed we got ED in the first place - Piranha has spent years telling us we're all idiots and that Ghost Heat is an absolutely pitch-perfect balancing mechanism that does just spot-on exactly what it was meant to do.

Either we slap ED into workable shape over several more PTS iterations, or we resign ourselves to dealing with Ghost Heat until the servers shut down.

I don't think it's as gloomy a situation as you say. Still, even if it IS, the poll DOES show that if we keep GH, the game will go on without much of a ripple.

For all its faults, GH is doing an acceptable job right now on Live. Balance and build variety are the best they've ever been - and that's something almost everyone can agree with. I think the system is more than "livable" should a replacement that can satisfy everyone is not forthcoming.

[Alteran]

Gentleman Reaper, on 29 August 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

Volley-fire doesn't measure to the long-established meta of firing all your weapons and turning to shield, which is what ED targets. ED encourages the need to either fire different groups or chain-fire, which is why your Nova is more effective, although it's balanced because you need to expose yourself to maintain that DPS.

I understand the purpose and intent of ED, but I'm saying that for the most part it doesn't do a thing for any of the builds I have. Granted, I don't rely on high alpha attacks, those are wasteful and you become a liability to the team as you shut down or become ineffective DPS due to your high heat. ED isn't anything better than GH.

Want to lower Alpha's using GH? Decrease the same weapon type to 3, scale up GH by 30%, and put a 3 second timer for GH decay. Then increase internal damage done by a shut down by 100%. Then you'd see people managing their heat much more efficiently, using multiple fire and weapon groups.

The real problem that MWO has had, and all MW titles have had IMO, is that BT used a dice to see what part of the Mech you hit - MW Titles have all used Pin Point Focused Damage. That's why the MW titles has always had the problems they've had. 100 pts of armor on the CT of my Kodiak means nothing in the span of 3 seconds with 4+ mechs shooting CT if they each have 25+ pts of damage pin pointed. ED or GH doesn't help make me last longer in a fight.

Let's face it, that's the real problem - it's is why lights can last longer in a fight than an assault. They run at +100kph and we can only strafe their Mech with lasers, doing minimal damage across the areas we hit. A good light pilot is death for a heavy or assault using 5 SPL which is no where near a 40pt alpha strike.

ED or GH, it doesn't matter - good pilots will always find 'the' combination of weapons and push the limit to what they can do. Designing a new system for heat isn't the answer, designing engaging game modes is. Perhaps PGI should have read up on the CW/FP messages two years ago, we could have had an incredibly engaging system rather than what we have now, which is hemorrhaging the player base.

Edited by Alteran, 29 August 2016 - 05:36 PM.

[Navid A1]

Speaking for myself here...

Almost all my mechs have 3 different range bracket weapons
No "boats" whatsoever.
And I DESPISE energy draw. I want to see it burn.

Yet because we are gonna have it on live soon anyway, You might see me actually giving feedback and suggestion on energy draw about things that I think makes it less of a disaster.

[JC Daxion]

AnTi90d, on 29 August 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

..from Scarecrow's poll, it looks like PGI/MWO will have more players and thus more sources of revenue by dropping Energy Draw.

-----

If ED is kept:

.. increase my play time (and possibly spending) into MWO. 48 votes [28.24%]


.. decrease my play time (and possibly spending) into MWO. 60 votes [35.29%]

If the ED is killed:

No change to playerbase. 120 votes [70.59%]


..decrease to the playerbase. 50 votes [29.41%]

-----

It's a bad business decision to not drop Energy Draw.

People will leave MWO if ED lives. People won't leave MWO if ED dies.

this is really funny.. For people that are number cruncher's, they don't seam to understand large numbers.. You realize that 100 people out of what could be over 100k people, (talking players a year, not logged in daily), is not a sample size that is even close to even being enough to account for error rate..

Meaning, yes, a few people might leave, and a few people might stay, but the vast majority of the player base is not represented here. You would get more accurate results standing out side of a Mc'donalds, asking which is better, Mc'donalds or burger king.. and that placement would get you very skewed at best..

Alteran, on 29 August 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

Let's face it, that's the real problem - it's is why lights can last longer in a fight than an assault. They run at +100kph and we can only strafe their Mech with lasers, doing minimal damage across the areas we hit. A good light pilot is death for a heavy or assault using 5 SPL which is no where near a 40pt alpha strike.

Lights last longer because many people have bad aim.. Some how i never fight those people..

[Shadowspawn42]

For the people saying that assault mechs are over powered and light mechs are useless...have you ever tried hitting a locust? I have seen them run circles around multiple mechs, weaving, twisting, changing speeds and directions....and then run off behind cover where they are safe and sound. I have seen people in light mechs put up 1000 damage in a match...thats a hell of a lot of damage for something that is so freaking fast it can get anywhere it needs to be very quickly. Compare that to a dire whale that has to wait for the fight to come to it.

The real problem with ED is it limits sustained damage output to 20 DPS. You can get that on just about any mech in the game. Why play a big slow mech that is an easy target? Pop tarting and light mechs will be the only reasonable thing to play. And the pop tarters will tire of getting offed by the fast little light mechs they cant hit. 20 DPS is a joke.

ED isnt any better than ghost heat. Its much worse. Now, I have never played without ghost heat, so I have nothing to compare it to. But what I can tell you is that the current system is fairly well balanced between LRMs, sniping, Mid Range skirmishing, and short range brawling. You can have a great match in ANY of those playstyles. You can have a great match in any weight class mech from Light to Assault. And you can have terrible matches in any of those. Its mostly about the skill of the players in the cockpit. Which is as it should be.

[Tiantara]

- Few LBX, some SSRM and take cover for back armor. That all what pilots of heavy and assaults need to know how to deal with light mech. Also in game many mech with strict role of killing and hunting light mech. When even of light mech come - I have many of them killed right in time when they come near (you remember, light have pretty short range). Killing 2-3 light easy, when you know how to do that. About alpha 20-30 from light. Yeah, they can do that, but after 3rd alpha they have hight heat and must run away to cool off. Aim and shoot them.
Maybe I'm really bad in light (and that can me true), but in light mech I live in battle nearly first 1-2 min. After that someone rip my leg or do precise damage to side torso. On IS mech (like Raven, Jenner, Locust, Urbanmech and all other) - it equal death. Panther and Wolfhound after rescale become much bigger. Take them down even easier then before.
Problem have only those assault pilots who have only large lasers or only AC20, LRM or ERPPC in mech and nothing else. So, it was your choice... 3xSSRM2 + 3xML can easy save my Gauss Crab from light interceptors.

But I'm not about it.
Same mech, same build, same map - don't guarantee you victory. All about skill. All about piloting practice and good aim. When high tier pilots just for fun make his tier lower and come into tier 3 - you see great piloted locust who kill anything around and powerful assaults who rip your mech parts like they from paper. Because pilot in that mech know how to use it.
But all still searching for magic weapon and enchanted mech which helps them take high score after few click.

Oh, I remember game when you can be killed right in Landing Zone from head shot. I remember rain of LRM killing all around. Sniper beam of death which slice your armor in seconds from great distance. And that was ok. I learn how to play, change my builds, searching for weapon of my playstile. Understand how to avoid great damage to the face...
All is practice. Even if all 100 mech would run with toothpick someone would cry that he was "stomped by kinetic hit damage".

[Shadowspawn42]

Tiantara, on 30 August 2016 - 03:39 AM, said:

- Few LBX, some SSRM and take cover for back armor. That all what pilots of heavy and assaults need to know how to deal with light mech. Also in game many mech with strict role of killing and hunting light mech. When even of light mech come - I have many of them killed right in time when they come near (you remember, light have pretty short range). Killing 2-3 light easy, when you know how to do that. About alpha 20-30 from light. Yeah, they can do that, but after 3rd alpha they have hight heat and must run away to cool off. Aim and shoot them.

And that was ok. I learn how to play, change my builds, searching for weapon of my playstile.

I have 4 Small Lasers with my 2 AC 20s. They are my light defense. I am light on AC20 ammo as it is. And it takes some work to take down a light with them. But if I am firing my 2 AC20s in chain and I am firing my 4 small lasers when needed, my mech is BLOWING up after 3-4 volleys. I am too slow to disengage. This is NOT unreasonable firepower. Its a broken system.

I am not going to buy new mechs every time they decide they need to radically change the system to fix a problem that only exists in peoples head. People hate GH, I get that. People are going to hate GD too. And whatever system comes after it. I FOUND mechs that I enjoy that work in the system. I payed real dollars so I could have the mechs I needed to support the playstyle I enjoy. If ED goes through without a significantly higher Energy recharge or significantly less heat from overdrawing energy, I wasted my money.

Let me put it this way. I am not spending another dollar on this game until ED is dropped or until the mechs I BOUGHT with my HARD EARNED CASH are playable under ED. I had planned to buy a couple more packs down the road to fill out my drop decks for Faction Play. Not happening now. Nor will I buy MC (which I need for mech bays desperately). I will just get my MC from those event weekends and faction play. PGI revenue from me (and others who feel like I do) will go from $100 to ZERO. THAT is the problem with ED as it stands. Fix it or lose your revenue.

[Tiantara]

- That's why we need more people to test it. More games 8 vs 8 on map with different temperature zones. More builds. more experiments, more non-standard situation. But we have really few instead. ED tweaks under suggestions of few players. And all who want balance and greatly working system don't even try it hard.

You wasted money and your mech become useless? Try all possible builds to make it work again. If all builds become useless and mech turned into junk - write all your test and tryouts.
Mech, loadout, number of heatsink, engine, maps on which tested, video of battle and tryouts if you can. Write all that.
I'm from really careful players. I' mostly use mech with 13.-1.6 heat management and ED hits only some of my hot mech hard and force to switch fire pattern on another.

I think your mech affected too much? Test and write conclusions about that.
I'm on PTS nearly every evening and see nearly no people.
System must be tweaked, but only with our help it can be better. Or we get something far away from reality.

[Jetfire]

Massive alpha's are something even vets want to see gone. It completely circumvents the idea of a MECH game. If it's just a stompy paperdoll in a twitch shooter then the game is a failure and TTK being so low is a problem for this reason. Alpha strikes are not good game design for the most common method of attacking and even less so when you are ramping them up past 30 damage.

I want ED and I want heat penalties.

Edited by Jetfire, 30 August 2016 - 05:46 AM.

[Tiantara]

Quote

I want ED and I want heat penalties.

- Me too. But heat penalty must be lowered from 1 to 0.65-0.70.

[Shadowspawn42]

Jetfire, on 30 August 2016 - 05:45 AM, said:

Massive alpha's are something even vets want to see gone. It completely circumvents the idea of a MECH game. If it's just a stompy paperdoll in a twitch shooter then the game is a failure and TTK being so low is a problem for this reason. Alpha strikes are not good game design for the most common method of attacking and even less so when you are ramping them up past 30 damage.

I want ED and I want heat penalties.

I have 2 better suggestions for fixing TTK.

1) Double the armor each mech has. Halve the weight of armor. Double the number of shots per ton of ammo. Problem Solved!

2) Halve the damage of all weapons. Double the number of shots per ton of ammo. Problem Solved!

And brawling is still a viable mech build! Everyone wins!

[Alteran]

Jetfire, on 30 August 2016 - 05:45 AM, said:

Massive alpha's are something even vets want to see gone. It completely circumvents the idea of a MECH game. If it's just a stompy paperdoll in a twitch shooter then the game is a failure and TTK being so low is a problem for this reason. Alpha strikes are not good game design for the most common method of attacking and even less so when you are ramping them up past 30 damage.

I want ED and I want heat penalties.

I guess because I don't see it in the QP and CW/FP game I play, what is a 'high alpha'?

Jetfire actually put a number too it, but is 30+ damage in a single salvo a high alpha? Is it 40+ or 50+? Is it 2 CUAC-20's being fired at once or 2 CUAC-10's and 2 CUAC-5's? Is it 5 CMER-Lasers? Is it 8 ISM-Lasers?

I'm actually fairly curious, because when I'm in matches today, the only 'boat' I see are the BK's with 7-9 ISM-Lasers and even they aren't firing all at once, they have 2 fire groups going. Next up are the Stalkers with 6 ERL-Lasers.

I run a Kodiak with 2 CUAC 10s, 2 CUAC 5s and 2 CERM Lasers - is that a boat - is that a high alpha? I used to run my DW with 4 CUAC 10s but I hated the jamming of most of the UAC's at once, so I switched it to 10's and 5's as well.

MW titles, including MWO, were all designed to have the game started and ended in 15ish minutes. They don't last for hours and over a couple hundred KM's. We don't use a dice to figure where we hit. We aren't conservative in our firing patterns. We hit for the most amount of damage, using the best weapons we are proficient in, and we ride the heat line as best as we can. ED only redefines what those combinations are and how we hit for. People are holding ED up as the mechanic that will force people to use different combinations of weapons as well - no it won't. My Nova, with 8 CERM-Lasers is a testament to that. In fact all my builds are a testament to that. My builds on the PTS hit for 30+ per salvo and in 2 seconds I will do 60+ depending on the mech I am using. Is that too much damage?

The only thing on the PTS in the ED system that even remotely changes things up is the heat penalties. The penalties are the one thing that should be explored and IMO increased. Ride the heat scale at +75%, lose 1/2 of your torso twisting and mech responsiveness as a good example.

ED or GH, it doesn't matter. They are just slightly different methods of doing the exact same thing - limiting the amount of firing from a combination of weapons and assigning a heat % based on that. Wasting development time on the same system is what really bothers me. The silver lining will be the penalties.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jetfire, on 30 August 2016 - 05:45 AM, said:

Massive alpha's are something even vets want to see gone.

What vets are you talking about? I have played Mechwarrior for over 10 years now and I don't agree with ED at all nor do I find this boogeyman of massive alphas as much a problem (because it is another way to play).

[Shadowspawn42]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 30 August 2016 - 07:31 AM, said:

What vets are you talking about? I have played Mechwarrior for over 10 years now and I don't agree with ED at all nor do I find this boogeyman of massive alphas as much a problem (because it is another way to play).

EXACTLY!

Right now the game is REALLY good. You can snipe, you can LRM, you can skirmish at midrange, you can brawl at close range. You can play mechs that are good at two of these play styles, but aren't as good as those who specialize at one thing. You can play any mech type Light to Assault. Slow to Fast. And all are reasonably viable and balanced. I see a huge variety of mechs and play styles. Oh sure, certain maps favor a certain type of play...but that is a problem with map design not game balance. For every mining collective that favors brawling there is a polar highlands or alpine peaks that favors sniping/LRMs.

ED as it stands right now kills brawling. The balance is gone. The risk vs reward isnt there.

[Gas Guzzler]

Jetfire, on 30 August 2016 - 05:45 AM, said:

Massive alpha's are something even vets want to see gone. It completely circumvents the idea of a MECH game. If it's just a stompy paperdoll in a twitch shooter then the game is a failure and TTK being so low is a problem for this reason. Alpha strikes are not good game design for the most common method of attacking and even less so when you are ramping them up past 30 damage.

I want ED and I want heat penalties.

Im a vet and I don't see the alphas that we see regularly in game today as a problem.