47 replies to this topic

[Stefan Vorell]

I played a few rounds last night where some of the light mech pilots were giving the assaults grief for playing conservatively and sticking behind cover. Are there some widespread expectations about different class play styles? I've just been operating under the mentality of adapting to the situation. My view on assaults is they are damage dealers, not damage sponges (excepting Atlas). If there weren't energy weapons and everyone had a finite amount of ammo, I might shift this view.

I can't speak for the other players, but my primary reason for hunkering down was the lack of communication by my team both rounds. Without communication there is no focused fire, called shots, movement coordination or etc...

If I don't hear team mates start communicating early and often I play a lot more conservatively keeping to cover and whittling away at targets.

Any advice for a player new to the heavier class mechs on some general tactics or roles when you don't have a well coordinated team?

[Boulangerie]

While I'm not sure what your teammates were griping about specifically, there is the concept of armor sharing.

When the match starts, there is a finite amount of armor and HP on both teams. A key to winning is keeping your teammates alive as long as possible, and the best way to do this is to spread the damage taken around on all of your team. As a heavy/assault, you have more Armor to share, so you should be taking shots with the rest of your team.

That said, you are totally right that communication should play a role here. Sharing armor does nothing if your team isn't managing to eliminate threats/weapons on the other team. It's fine to play the way you did, but a good indicator that you aren't sharing armor is if most of your team is dead and you still have plenty of armor left.

Going forward, I'd keep an eye on your health levels, and hit the Q button occasionally to see if your teammates are damaged as well. If you notice that you are near max, and everyone you've been poking with is damaged, try to be the first one to poke this time, and take some fire for the team.

Also, there comes a time in certain games when a push into a flank can really turn the battle, so don't get so caught up in poke-warrior that you forget to stay with the team.

Above all, you aren't incorrect in assuming your main job is to dish out damage! The best way for your team to do that is to stay alive, and the best way for you to be effective with the damage you are dealing is to coordinate with your team. It can be intimidating, but if you don't notice anyone else stepping up early in the match, try just calling out your own targets. You'll be amazed when your teammates come to help you focus down a mech, and even if it's not the ideal target at the time (this takes practice to recognize the priorities), calling any targets is preferable to calling none.

[Stefan Vorell]

Boulangerie, on 30 August 2016 - 05:40 AM, said:

While I'm not sure what your teammates were griping about specifically, there is the concept of armor sharing.

I am glad you brought this up. I've noticed when my team generally gets stomped I'll see the other team trading firing positions a lot.

[Boulangerie]

Stefan Vorell, on 30 August 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

I am glad you brought this up. I've noticed when my team generally gets stomped I'll see the other team trading firing positions a lot.

Yes, this contributes to the snowball effect. A 12-6 loss isn't necessarily a stomp when the 6 enemies left are heavily damaged, they just did a better job sharing damage. The more guns on target, the more effective a team, and being outnumbered can quickly snowball into a huge disadvantage, even if you technically have more HP left at the time. That said, don't get discouraged if you do lose a mech or two early, because it's still possible to turn the game around.

[Stefan Vorell]

When I say stomped I mean 2 and 12.

[Koniving]

Stefan Vorell, on 30 August 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

I played a few rounds last night where some of the light mech pilots were giving the assaults grief for playing conservatively and sticking behind cover. Are there some widespread expectations about different class play styles? I've just been operating under the mentality of adapting to the situation. My view on assaults is they are damage dealers, not damage sponges (excepting Atlas). If there weren't energy weapons and everyone had a finite amount of ammo, I might shift this view.

I can't speak for the other players, but my primary reason for hunkering down was the lack of communication by my team both rounds. Without communication there is no focused fire, called shots, movement coordination or etc...

If I don't hear team mates start communicating early and often I play a lot more conservatively keeping to cover and whittling away at targets.

Any advice for a player new to the heavier class mechs on some general tactics or roles when you don't have a well coordinated team?

Generally, if a team is stuck in a stalemate then it is bound to lose. Either the other team is working its way to find a weakspot in the line or flank, or the enemy team is going to mount a push. Regardless, you lose.

The only way to get out of the stalemate is to do this first, and a push cannot happen without the assaults or heavies taking advantage of opportunities created by lights, because if this doesn't happen then the mediums stand no chance of helping the lights when enemy lights try to counter, leaving the lights to die and systematically the entire team loses.

Ideally, an assault would never stop moving, continuously pushing as a group through enemy force after enemy force. This isn't an easy thing to come by in quickplay however.

If the assaults are locked down and can't move, the match is effectively lost. If the assaults simply refuse to move, again it is effectively lost. I hate saying it but the outcome of a battle depends mostly on the assaults and the lights.

A dream-come-true match; the two Atlases never stop moving.


In a high-end group battle, I'm forced to play more seriously than I normally would. In the first match I make my own 'push' to keep from getting stalemated. In the second match when we go to push, I hesitate which gets me killed.


I don't blame you for the reaction to the lack of communication, but it is times like that when you need to make your own pushes. Flank the enemy if possible, find a weak spot, observe the field. Even if they aren't talking, the lights are trying to make openings -- even if they are doing it by sheer accident, the power of the "squirrel!" is too great for the often feeble, disorganized minds of your enemies. Make your openings and take them. Yes, some people do need to hold their ground for a front line but remember that not everyone has to do it. If your allies have it covered, it is time to step up and make something happen.

And if you have allies that are stepping up to make something happen, then hold that front line until the enemy's line starts to break then cram that lever forward and blast everything.... because things go wrong when everyone is doing the same thing.

Edited by Koniving, 30 August 2016 - 07:36 AM.

[Old-dirty B]

Assaults should not hide and poke to deal damage. While assaults are able to dish out damage, they can also take damage like no other. Assaults should either lead the charge or push, or hold / block off an important position. If assaults are hiding and taking cover who else should be there in the front line? A 20t locust... ?

Anyway, i dont mean that you should "just" be taking damage, save your armor for when it really matters (thats not poking, thats for medium / heavies). A fresh assault that suddenly pops up and charges towards the enemy follewed up by the other brawlers can be terifying effective. Communicate with your team that you are preparing to push, where and when (gibe others a bit time to get ready) and then lead the push. Move out of cover call out targets and be positive so your team mates stay there to support you! Good luck

[knight-of-ni]

Koniving, on 30 August 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

A dream-come-true match; the two Atlases never stop moving.

^ This.

This is how it's done, folks. If I could add one thing, notice how the rest of the team followed the Atlas(es) around the map.

If you find yourself in a match where your team stops moving and you see an Assault mech move out, even if you yourself are also in an assault mech, follow that assault mech! You stand a far better chance of victory by moving and attacking on your terms rather than sitting around and waiting for the enemy to attack you on their terms.

[Sky1]

Seems to me that when I try that in my heavy I find much of my team abandons me or the other team concentrates fire on the assaut/heavys only. The last few games I did hold back per our Lance Leader and did not push forward until instructed to do so. We annihilated the other team. Maybe this is wrong but sometimes I prefer to be very defensive until I am confident of where most the opposing team is hiding out.

[Xaat Xuun]

well now I see why Mediums get no love

I don't think Assaults should be the front of the spearhead, by definition, they are there to inflict damage,
and as already mentioned, not there to be the damage sponge.
but I really don't think Assaults or Heavy's, hiding , holding off because they don't want to take any ounce of damage is the wrong way/role.

I rarely will play a heavy or a assault, mainly because to me their role is very limited and linear, and they're slow , so I run a Medium.
So my view of the Heavy or Assault is from the medium pilots POV.

when in a good team, the experience is awesome, win or loss.
I'm finding that in a full PuG team, if there is no communication at the start, it falls apart fast.

may I suggest finding a group of same class, to stay in the same lance, with a light pilot, who is spotting for you, will increase you're effectiveness as a Heavy/Assault pilot.

Edited by Xaat Xuun, 30 August 2016 - 02:31 PM.

[Koniving]

A fast assault (90 tons).

Skip to 6:30.
Take charge, lead the charge, isolate and pound the enemy and have the thermal endurance to keep the hurt going even when the enemy overheats.

They do exist. Battle masters are also among really good fast assault mechs.

[Koniving]

Sky1, on 30 August 2016 - 12:31 PM, said:

Seems to me that when I try that in my heavy I find much of my team abandons me or the other team concentrates fire on the assaut/heavys only. The last few games I did hold back per our Lance Leader and did not push forward until instructed to do so. We annihilated the other team. Maybe this is wrong but sometimes I prefer to be very defensive until I am confident of where most the opposing team is hiding out.

A random push doesn't work, if you are not confident in the team supporting you then hold the line... or remove yourself from the line and encircle the enemy if you can find some poor lost soul isolated in the distance.

The key to a solo push is to find isolated enemies and quickly take them out.

This may take forever but you will notice the enemy I hunt is all by himself...and has an alpha strike of 60 damage every 4 seconds.



This video was started immediately after spending a few minutes encircling the enemy position and sneaking up behind an enemy on the opposing front line.


This video demonstrates and specifically refers to some tactics a heavy can do to turn the tide of the battle and do small pushes (solo or two man).


And finally going solo in this trial dragon I use similar tactics to keep from getting stalemated.

Edited by Koniving, 30 August 2016 - 03:10 PM.

[mailin]

The fundamental problem with poke warrior is that when a team is static, the enemy has the initiative. Poking is only good as a means to advance. Fire and duck while your team mates are inching forward. The important thing is to keep moving forward. When an enemy or two die, move up a little.

I'm not talking here about charging forward at full speed, but assaults always want to be gaining ground. Use your long range weapons to inflict damage while you are closing the distance.

Also, there are different strategies for the different game modes. The easiest is skirmish because this is what I call deathball mode.

In skirmish everyone should move to the assaults, with the possible exception of fast ecm units that can get behind the enemy. Everybody else should be balling up and rolling forward. If you stop, eventually the enemy will figure that out and flank you, or some will stop while others don't which is equally bad.

While you're in the deathball focus fire on the closest assault until he's dead or goes behind cover, but keep moving forward.

Edited by mailin, 30 August 2016 - 03:31 PM.

[Leone]

Stefan Vorell, on 30 August 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

Any advice for a player new to the heavier class mechs on some general tactics or roles when you don't have a well coordinated team?

Well, for one, most assaults are actually pretty bad for leading the push. Too slow, too easy to focus down. The first couple'a mechs in sight need to be able to twist an evade. Unless your in something that can move, like a 'Goyle, your better off following the push and doing what you do best, all the damage.

If you would like, I've complied some thoughts on Assaults Somewhere around here. Feel free to take a look.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 30 August 2016 - 03:51 PM.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

[Xaat Xuun]

might just be me, and might be a bit off the OP topic, but I think before ever sitting in a Heavy or Assault, the pilot needs to be a light Pilot first.
They'll better understand their duties as a Heavy/Assault pilot, and probably gain or have a lot more respect from the smaller mech pilots..

I don't think it's said enough, but without the scouts, you might as well play with just Heavy/Assult Brawlers

[Koniving]

Boulangerie, on 30 August 2016 - 05:40 AM, said:

While I'm not sure what your teammates were griping about specifically, there is the concept of armor sharing.

When the match starts, there is a finite amount of armor and HP on both teams. A key to winning is keeping your teammates alive as long as possible, and the best way to do this is to spread the damage taken around on all of your team. As a heavy/assault, you have more Armor to share, so you should be taking shots with the rest of your team.

An example of this.


Even at the front line, exchanging firing positions like this help with the longevity of each player.

[Koniving]

Xaat Xuun, on 30 August 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

might just be me, and might be a bit off the OP topic, but I think before ever sitting in a Heavy or Assault, the pilot needs to be a light Pilot first.
They'll better understand their duties as a Heavy/Assault pilot, and probably gain or have a lot more respect from the smaller mech pilots..

I don't think it's said enough, but without the scouts, you might as well play with just Heavy/Assult Brawlers

I personally say/suggest the use of mediums first, giving you a taste of the light and heavy worlds without going too far into either.

Though I agree no one should ever "start" in an assault as positioning and several other factors and skills are desired for the role.

[Stefan Vorell]

I intentionally started in a locust and played that until I had mastered the chassis. My move to assault was out of desire to expand my gameplay.

I experimented with different suggestions made in this thread last night and noticed a few things.

1. If my team lost, there was always someone who blamed the assaults. Literally first round some guy commented over voice about two minutes in "I love how our assaults moved one squared and then stopped." I looked around at my lance who was all moving in formation and replied "I don't don't see any stationary assaults."

2. If I ran forward into the open and got myself killed without downing any mechs and we lost, no one complained. If I was using cover and trying to avoid getting focus fired, I was given trouble for my play style. Even if I accounted for two or more kills. (The original two matches in the OP I referenced I was responsible for 2 of 3 kills one round and 1 of 2 the other.)

What I've found to be the most enjoyable pacing is to move up to a good firing spot with cover along with the other assaults and maybe two mediums or lights. (Believe it or not I have the occassional team where they dont just run off and leave us in the dust) Then, once the numbers have thinned and a stalemate has started to form I flank and push, mopping up already damaged mechs.

Xaat Xuun, on 30 August 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

might just be me, and might be a bit off the OP topic, but I think before ever sitting in a Heavy or Assault, the pilot needs to be a light Pilot first.
They'll better understand their duties as a Heavy/Assault pilot, and probably gain or have a lot more respect from the smaller mech pilots..

I don't think it's said enough, but without the scouts, you might as well play with just Heavy/Assult Brawlers

Edited by Stefan Vorell, 31 August 2016 - 11:20 AM.

[Count Zero 74]

Its simple, in Quick Play the role of the assaults is to get left behind when the team starts to Nascar and then get picked of by some Lights/Mediums.