Wintersdark, on 02 September 2016 - 08:20 PM, said:
This is the thing though, the KDK can't really run SRM+large ballistic brawler builds on anything BUT the SB. The KDK-3 for example has only 4E+4B, no missile hardpoints and all. The others are just 0-2 missile hardpoints.
Kodiaks are actually primarily Energy spam mechs + a single ballistic hardpoint, with the exception of the SB (traditional AS7 build), and -3 (dakka mauler build).
Just because they look like AS7's doesn't make them Clan Atlas's in the traditional sense. Perhaps before the days of quirks that could have been the case, but as the AS7 has such immense structural and twist quirks, it's a very different animal now.
Of course, that's ignoring that the KDK-5 and the AS7-BH are very similar, and the non-DDC/S AS7's are generally not used at all (much like the other KDK's for that matter, though admittedly the "bad" KDK's have it way, way better than the "bad" AS7's).
But when you're talking Atlas roles, you're almost always talking AS7-DDC and AS7-S brawler roles, which basically only the KDK-SB is doing. Other KDK's are much less effective in that front-and-center role as they're huge, have mediocre hitboxes, twist slower than AS7's and lack the structure to eat fire like an AS7 can.
Alright I see my mistake in my assumptions, I blame bias of what i have typically fought which is brawling Dakka Bears (because dakka doesn't mind being up close) and SB's. But, the SB and KDK-3 are very common from my experience. Yes an Atlas has a lot of structure, which helps it get close for the DDC and S brawler roles mainly competing against the SB. But, this does leave the other Atlas builds kind of lacking which I guess is something both the Kodiak and Atlas need some love on are the builds that can't do brawling or heavy ballistic boating just needing something to distinguish them and give them a role. Guess the face time of the KDK-3 without shake and blinding explosions would make it have less hope in close combat, but, it still has pretty meaty DPS.
As for how to deal with the Atlas outside of the AS7-S I am still drawing a blank, more structure is nice but maybe lower crit chance would be more useful in place of such high structure or something. More or less making it so it can be broken open and keep it's weapons longer, but, it will still die faster than the AS7-S so it is a different way to approach brawling or something.
IDK, maybe I am in search for a solution for something that is not that much of a problem and am just bitter from not finding a fun Atlas build that works for me.
Cato Zilks, on 02 September 2016 - 11:07 PM, said:
Spiral, I agree. But, when you increase cooldowns and cap energy draw at low numbers, then you are disadvantaging mechs that bring larger weapons. Mechs with a lot of hardpoints get to push right up to the 30 ED line while big weapon mechs dont. What are you going to fire with an ac 20? 1 SRM? It is underpowered in relation to the ED line (20/30) but too powerful for the other similarly ranged things to fire as well.
This is why I was thinking just adding an additional energy hard point to both arms of the Atlas just so it has the ability to cycle through more weapons so it can have it's one big weapon system or two of them, but, have something to back those systems up with, though after thinking about it, that might be more for the non DDC and non S variants due to they lack the structure or ecm to aid them. Having say 2E in each arm, 2E in the CT, 1B and 1M on the K would give it more options as that missile hardpoint doesn't help it much, but, if we increased the M hardpoint numbers we just make the K look like it can do the exact same build as the S and DDC which doesn't help as it doesn't have the high structure quarks. Oh wait, the K has insane structure quirks, but, the lack of being able to do the AC/20+SRM6 hammer leaves it hanging in the meta it seems.
Of course I guess what ED would really do is shift things away to the K as it has the structure to handle more DPS like builds, plus a lower crit change against it quirk.
Again, I am uncertain exactly how to deal with the Atlas. Maybe the Atlas would be fine and it is an issue more of thinking about how to use the Atlas in too focus of ideals current Meta.