44 replies to this topic

[Magnus Santini]

I understand that the tabletop game may have always been this way. But ballistics is king because (among other advantages) it can fire a lot without ever shutting you down. Missiles are the opposite: heat showers, heat fountains, and heat hot springs. Seems to me that all of the energy used to propel a bullet occurs when fired, so all of the possible heat energy is around to heat the mech. On the other hand, missiles are propelling themselves all the way to the target, so a lot of the heat is generated far from the mech and doesn't heat it up. My guess is that MWO missile salvos and bullet salvos are about the same mass. So missiles should run cold and bullets hot. Therefore, I think this is backwards. if I just fixed all the game balance issues, please like this post.

[Tristan Winter]

Because Battletech, basically.

[TercieI]

So MWO is based on a boardgame from the 1980s that is positively riddled with nonsense in every aspect of its setting, technology and accompanying mythos, yet still somehow manages to be pretty cool. This explains a huge chunk of the dumb stuff in MWO and is usually abbreviated "lore."

[Escef]

Because the tonnage to damage ratio is insane on SRMs.

Also, how much heat do you suppose it generates to have multiple rocket engines firing inside your mech? Welcome to missile launches, whooooosh!

[Blue Boutique]

Escef, on 04 November 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

Because the tonnage to damage ratio is insane on SRMs.

Also, how much heat do you suppose it generates to have multiple rocket engines firing inside your mech? Welcome to missile launches, whooooosh!

Which is why all vehicle in today's military either ejects the missile first or have the back blast away to the rear.

Edited by Blue Boutique, 04 November 2016 - 11:53 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The answer is: Because BattleTech. If MechWarrior were its own franchise but took the BT lore with it, it would be super awesome.

[Hunka Junk]

Why does "artillery" have shorter range than sniper weapons?

[Weeny Machine]

"Why Are Missiles Hot And Guns Cold?"


1. Why do fusion engines explode in Battletech?

2. Why can female Mech warriors park their mechs in cramped bays properly...all the time!


(sorry for no. 2)

Edited by Bush Hopper, 04 November 2016 - 12:43 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Why a Duck ?

[Coralld]

Bush Hopper, on 04 November 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

"Why Are Missiles Hot And Guns Cold?"


1. Why do fusion engines explode in Battletech?

2. Why can female Mech warriors park their mechs in cramped bays properly...all the time!


(sorry for no. 2)

I'd really wish the Combine pilots would use their mechs turn signal before cutting me off right when I am about to fire my Alpha.

Jokes aside, I can see a fusion reactor exploding as it acts like a pressure cooker to put it in the most simplistic terms but it's not going to do a nuclear explosion as described by Stockpole.

Edited by Coralld, 07 November 2016 - 03:23 PM.

[LordNothing]

dont expect realism as far as battletech guns are concerned.

real guns:

range gets longer with size
run very hot

battletech:

range gets shorter with size
runs cool

missiles also usually throw their heat out the back of the launcher where as with guns all that hot gas stays in the barrel with nowhere to go but into the metal. missiles also leave the tube with much less energy, which it picks up in flight as its rocket motor burns. bullets get all their energy while its in the barrel and half that energy goes back into the gun (as heat).

its neccisary for gameplay reasons. if weapons of war were simulated properly, games would be very very boring. gatling guns go from death stream emmitters to pea shooters, missiles go from being able to fly down a vent shaft on a bunker, while in games its hard to get them to hit a 12 meter battlemech. and most engagements occur beyond visual range. so you push a button wait 20 seconds and the game is over. lasers are still more or less clunky with a select few applications, but were getting there.

Edited by LordNothing, 04 November 2016 - 03:45 PM.

[nehebkau]

It has to do with weapons being in different sized buckets.

[Kylere]

Most mechs have armor plates on their backs, and no place to release missile exhaust other than forward, which rocks them and is heat inefficient.

[CK16]

Because rocket exhaust is hot as hell....guns can be fairly hot yea, but can cool the barrel with air or water. This is the future as well. Things could have been developed in firm arms. AC's and UAC's are as they are named. Cannons. Ranging from basicly 20mm to about 120mm (if IIRC there ) and they are not under constant fire (aka machine gun). Yes they burst but they are not spraying bullets like MG's....speaking of MG's the technically I would say their heat is not enough to effect a mechs reactor. However! They should have a jam chance as they are used more since the barrel getting to a super high temp could deform and jam the weapon as in real life (aka the barrel is glowing it's so hot).

[LordNothing]

yes but most of the rocket exaust goes into the air not the mech, only the initial blast. less if there are vent ports (some mechs seem to have venting slats in the back even if they are just part of the texture). a rocket motor burns over time and is a constant source of thrust, a powder charge goes off all in one place and at least half of the energy goes back into the gun itself, throw on extra for friction losses, which is a lot for rifled barrels (smooth bore less so, which is why lbs run cooler).

[DrxAbstract]

Magnus Santini, on 04 November 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

I understand that the tabletop game may have always been this way. But ballistics is king because (among other advantages) it can fire a lot without ever shutting you down. Missiles are the opposite: heat showers, heat fountains, and heat hot springs. Seems to me that all of the energy used to propel a bullet occurs when fired, so all of the possible heat energy is around to heat the mech. On the other hand, missiles are propelling themselves all the way to the target, so a lot of the heat is generated far from the mech and doesn't heat it up. My guess is that MWO missile salvos and bullet salvos are about the same mass. So missiles should run cold and bullets hot. Therefore, I think this is backwards. if I just fixed all the game balance issues, please like this post.

Because in exchange for being precision weapons with a much higher range-to-damage ratio and generally running cooler, they take up a ****ton more criticals and tonnage.

That isn't why they're popular, though. They produce far less heat than Lasers while having comparable effective ranges with them, and seeing as how your options with Missiles are LRMs(Shite) and SRMs(Extremely short effective range)... The fact Missiles in MWO have 0(Zero) medium range representation and terrible long range capability, making the short-ranged ones the only viable option, is why Ballistics(And Energy) are king; Their effective ranges overlap with average engagement distances.

So Missiles themselves would be more common if we had a medium-ranged option and the long-ranged ones werent shite.

[cazidin]

This raises a far more interesting and in-depth theory. What would Battletech be if based off of real world science, or as close to it as possible?

[Dogstar]

>and the long-ranged ones werent shite.



p.s. By opening YET ANOTHER 'real world/science vs battletech' debate the OP has lost all rights to be treated like an adult for the next 3 weeks. Repeated offences will exponentially increase the duration of the sentence

>This raises a far more interesting and in-depth theory. What would Battletech be
>if based off of real world science, or as close to it as possible?

You too!

Edited by Dogstar, 06 November 2016 - 02:42 AM.

[Mystere]

Dogstar, on 06 November 2016 - 02:35 AM, said:

People who said LRMs were useless in CW just have no idea what they're talking about. LRMs are hilarious.

[LordNothing]

cazidin, on 05 November 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

This raises a far more interesting and in-depth theory. What would Battletech be if based off of real world science, or as close to it as possible?

beyond visual range engagements and insta-death.