112 replies to this topic

[SpectreHD]

Very interesting read. I also play another game, Armored Warfare, which also uses the CryEngine and I constantly brought up MWO to solve their shot delay problem especially with close range shots while maneuvering. MWO has been very consistent in its hitreg for me. I play on the Oceanic and N. America server and I cannot feel much, if at all, difference when playing with 50 pings or 270.

As of the last couple of patches, AW seemed to have nailed it. Don't think they do it exactly as MWO but they got a CryEngine developer help with the shot delay/HSR problem.

Edited by SpectreHD, 06 October 2016 - 07:03 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Neema Teymory, on 08 September 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

This definitely sounds like a bug, if you have videos demonstrating the problem, send me a PM and we can look into it. Sometimes these problems aren't hit detection related, but damage calculation related. For example, you will probably recall recently there was a bug with Mechs that had multiple weapon doors (I think the Kintaro specifically) where when the doors were closed (or open? don't remember exactly) the associated component became invincible. This was simply a bug in the code that calculated the doors giving the components 100% damage reduction. It wasn't related to hit detection.

That could certainly be the case. It's been a long observed phenomenon that massed PPC's (probably all autocannons, but it's easier to mass PPC's) will hit, and register a hit via crosshair flash, but do obviously insufficient damage. Thanks to convergence, they'd all hit the same component.

We've always assumed that some of the PPC's fired simply didn't register; but there's paper doll flash and some damage done - the assumption that one "registered" and the rest didn't. But if they're all registering, but in some circumstances not doing full damage, that's certainly a possibility.

[Wintersdark]

1453 R, on 09 September 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

Mad props to Neema for a nice and meaty under-the-hood discussion. It's awesome to see some pieces of how the game does what it does laid out; this sort of thing makes it a lot easier for players to grasp what may or may not be possible/viable feedback and how or why certain things happen the way they do. I did not know that warm-up (Gauss charge?) ideas would have a potentially very serious effect on HSR, actually. That's really valuable to know given how much I like the idea of warm-ups/charge timers for certain (potential) weapon types.

Keep it up, tracking with interest.

Absolutely! I'm sad I missed this when it was "Live"; these talks with the nuts-and-bolts developers are always deeply fascinating. It's great to see how things work under the hood, and it tends to clear up a lot of misconceptions.

[HaXX0r1337]

So, the conclusion is there is a ping compensation but it is not accurate enough?

Do we still have to lead shot and get hits or do we have to aim on the target to get hits (even though they are messed up)?

[AssaultPig]

perfect compensation is impossible because the target's client (i.e. the player you're shooting at) could be telling the server anything, and you don't become aware of it until the server receives that data and sends it along to you. If both players at playing at (say) 100ms, that creates a .2s delay between what you're seeing in real time, and what's actually occurring.

For the most part that's okay in MWO because mechs are slow; relative position doesn't change that much in .2s so you don't notice the difference. It mostly comes into play when shooting lights, since they're small and their position changes pretty quickly (this is why PGI are reluctant to allow faster mechs, MASC for lights, etc.)

Ideally you want to be shooting at where the target will be when the server records your shots; in practice this means that you need to lead lights (or fast moving mediums I guess) a bit more than you think you need to, even with hitscan weapons.

Edited by AssaultPig, 11 July 2017 - 03:47 PM.

[l33tworks]

HaXX0r1337, on 11 July 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

So, the conclusion is there is a ping compensation but it is not accurate enough?

Do we still have to lead shot and get hits or do we have to aim on the target to get hits (even though they are messed up)?

Aim at the target, but aim at the leading end of the target, just in case, I find that works best. This is for between 150 and 300 ping by the way. Under just play as normal and over, well just use LRMS and streaks

[Prof RJ Gumby]

l33tworks, on 11 July 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

Aim at the target, but aim at the leading end of the target, just in case, I find that works best. This is for between 150 and 300 ping by the way. Under just play as normal and over, well just use LRMS and streaks

This is what I found to be most efficient. As an European, I aim normally on EU server (~50-60 ping) and try to lead like that (if I remeber) on US server (130-150 ping).

But the most important thing for the player to have your ping consistent on far away servers. Some time ago when I had to play on an unstable connection for a while, I didn't have a problem with EU jumping between 50 and 100, but US server jumping 130-200 was basically unplayable. On the other hand, I know people claimed playing with even 250 ping can be ok if you lead a bit, as long as the ping stays 250.

[P10k56]

What I see more often now a days are people with super resistant center torso.
Often completely red but still survives many direct hit which will fall even elephant.
Often it seems more like bating cos one thinks it is easy pick and that ******* survives.

[LordNothing]

AssaultPig, on 11 July 2017 - 03:46 PM, said:

perfect compensation is impossible because the target's client (i.e. the player you're shooting at) could be telling the server anything, and you don't become aware of it until the server receives that data and sends it along to you. If both players at playing at (say) 100ms, that creates a .2s delay between what you're seeing in real time, and what's actually occurring.

For the most part that's okay in MWO because mechs are slow; relative position doesn't change that much in .2s so you don't notice the difference. It mostly comes into play when shooting lights, since they're small and their position changes pretty quickly (this is why PGI are reluctant to allow faster mechs, MASC for lights, etc.)

Ideally you want to be shooting at where the target will be when the server records your shots; in practice this means that you need to lead lights (or fast moving mediums I guess) a bit more than you think you need to, even with hitscan weapons.

fortunately leading targets is more of an art than a science (well there is math you can do to take away the guesswork, but in this game you have to do this with your brain and not with a hud element). lead a target and if your shot hits, yay. if your shot misses, use that missed shot to try to compensate for your next shot. im good enough where i can get a mech zeroed in on the second shot, but sometimes my initial guess is on the money, and sometimes it might take 3. i usually look for a better target if i miss that one. leading between one and two mech widths ahead is usually enough. the hard part is compensating for uneven terrain, you cant always anticipate where the low spots are gonna be, especially with terrain lods screwing you up. hitting a locust 500m out going a perfect 90 degrees to your line of site is a hard but very possible shot.

lag or not you would still have to do this for any non-hitscan unguided ballistic projectile. lag kind of factors into it so if you condition yourself to hit targets with a certain lag involved, it will be no different conditioning for hitting targets with a ping of zero. its kind of as if your shell is just slower and more lead is required. sometimes you get a target with a ping that is unusual, or maybe you are not on your preferred server, and a little more effort is needed to zero targets, but once you land a couple you are good for the rest of the match. i used to play ww2 fighter sims in the day and leading targets was a skill i practiced daily. its much easier to lead big stompy robots than fighter planes.

Edited by LordNothing, 12 July 2017 - 05:13 AM.

[LordNothing]

P10k56, on 12 July 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

What I see more often now a days are people with super resistant center torso.
Often completely red but still survives many direct hit which will fall even elephant.
Often it seems more like bating cos one thinks it is easy pick and that ******* survives.

a long time ago there was this awesome, out in the open. it was cored red and like 5 members of my team were all shooting at it trying to steal that kill, everyone was hitting but awesome wasnt dying. and its not like awesomes have ever been hard to kill, its just hard to miss. this was on the old frozen city so its one of those way back bugs. i aint seen anything like that since, so i just assume it was fixed.

Edited by LordNothing, 12 July 2017 - 05:20 AM.

[P10k56]

LordNothing, on 12 July 2017 - 05:18 AM, said:

a long time ago there was this awesome, out in the open. it was cored red and like 5 members of my team were all shooting at it trying to steal that kill, everyone was hitting but awesome wasnt dying. and its not like awesomes have ever been hard to kill, its just hard to miss. this was on the old frozen city so its one of those way back bugs. i aint seen anything like that since, so i just assume it was fixed.

Hope it is some sort of glitch.
Something to do with skill tree

[LordNothing]

P10k56, on 12 July 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

Hope it is some sort of glitch.
Something to do with skill tree

yea this was way back, way before the skill trees even the rescale, and certainly before new frozen city. but thats the only time ive seen this happen on something that big. you might see it happen on a light mech every now and again, but on an assault, nope.

[poopenshire]

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Let sleeping dogs lie.

There have been so many patches/changes/updates since this thread was posted.

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Thanks

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