25 replies to this topic

[ScarecrowES]

Posted this proposal in the ED PTS forum, but I feel that the community at large in general discussion should have a say as well.

Basically I've found a way to use ED's mechanics to adapt the Battletech TT heat system to MWO.

I feel like the result is a marked improvement on any existing system, and I believe many of you will too. Please head over to the main topic and take a look, and please post/test your builds using the proposed system to see how it performs and recommend and tweaks it might need.

http://mwomercs.com/...tt-heat-system/

The current values for heat cap and dissipation are set exactly in line with both TT and MWO's existing system. I feel like this is the best base to start from, as it doesn't require further adjustment or balancing to work on the live server. It simply slots right in where the existing heat system was.

I've greatly updated the OP of that topic, to include a more brief TLDR explaination of the system, some background, and better depth of functionality explainations.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 07 September 2016 - 05:08 PM.

[Archangel Dino]

As long as it stays true to the Battletech, I love it.

Speaking of the TT heat scale, I'm not too sure how the penalties would be implemented, but implementing a Heat Max. of 30 would be easy.

Hey, if PGI can implement the TT heat scale, my faith in this game will be RESTORED!

[Davers]

Archangel Dino, on 25 August 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

As long as it stays true to the Battletech, I love it.

Speaking of the TT heat scale, I'm not too sure how the penalties would be implemented, but implementing a Heat Max. of 30 would be easy.

Hey, if PGI can implement the TT heat scale, my faith in this game will be RESTORED!

So having a Kodiac pump out 80 damage in 2.5 seconds for no heat would be a positive thing for you?

[RestosIII]

Davers, on 25 August 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

So having a Kodiac pump out 80 damage in 2.5 seconds for no heat would be a positive thing for you?

Double tapping 4 CUAC/10's=24 heat. Out of a 30 heat pool, not counting heat sinks. "No heat" isn't exactly accurate.

[Davers]

RestosIII, on 25 August 2016 - 08:10 PM, said:

Double tapping 4 CUAC/10's=24 heat. Out of a 30 heat pool, not counting heat sinks. "No heat" isn't exactly accurate.

So we are doing away with TT's 'safe heat zone' of 2 per DHS, so firing a single large laser would give you penalties and firing 4 medium lasers risk shutting you down?

Or did you not read the linked post from the OP describing his suggested system and just agreed blindly when you saw the letters "TT"?

Edited by Davers, 25 August 2016 - 08:14 PM.

[RestosIII]

Davers, on 25 August 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

So we are doing away with TT's 'safe heat zone' of 2 per DHS, so firing a single large laser would give you penalties and firing 4 medium lasers risk shutting you down?

Or did you not read the linked post from the OP describing his suggested system and just agreed blindly when you saw the letters "TT"?

'was just reading up on his version'
Oh lord. I take it all back. This ain't good. I'm out.

Edited by RestosIII, 25 August 2016 - 08:20 PM.

[Archangel Dino]

Davers, on 25 August 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

So we are doing away with TT's 'safe heat zone' of 2 per DHS, so firing a single large laser would give you penalties and firing 4 medium lasers risk shutting you down?

Or did you not read the linked post from the OP describing his suggested system and just agreed blindly when you saw the letters "TT"?

I just want my 30 Heat Scale. Heat Penalties... mmm not so much.

[RestosIII]

Archangel Dino, on 25 August 2016 - 08:20 PM, said:

I just want my 30 Heat Scale. Heat Penalties... mmm not so much.

I want movement slowdowns and HUD effects from heat, MAYBE ammo detonation chances, depends on PGI's management of it. What I don't want is what this guy proposed of heat straight up not generating as long as you don't go over a threshold. That's just... crazy.

[Archangel Dino]

RestosIII, on 25 August 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

I want movement slowdowns and HUD effects from heat, MAYBE ammo detonation chances, depends on PGI's management of it. What I don't want is what this guy proposed of heat straight up not generating as long as you don't go over a threshold. That's just... crazy.

I guess we could experiment with heat penalties. But, in terms of the original proposition - I agree with ya.

[Davers]

RestosIII, on 25 August 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

I want movement slowdowns and HUD effects from heat, MAYBE ammo detonation chances, depends on PGI's management of it. What I don't want is what this guy proposed of heat straight up not generating as long as you don't go over a threshold. That's just... crazy.

Just remember, movement penalties only hurt brawlers, HUD effects are just immersion fluff, and most players HATE the randomness of ammo explosions (which is why there is only a 10% chance of ammo explosion on a crit). Not to mention that Clans getting free CASE would make ammo explosions only an IS problem.

[feeWAIVER]

I take pills to adapt to my ED.

[RestosIII]

Davers, on 25 August 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

Just remember, movement penalties only hurt brawlers, HUD effects are just immersion fluff, and most players HATE the randomness of ammo explosions (which is why there is only a 10% chance of ammo explosion on a crit). Not to mention that Clans getting free CASE would make ammo explosions only an IS problem.

All CASE does is prevent the explosion from traveling to another section of the mech. Will still absolutely demolish whatever section that ammo was stored in. Movement penalties will help deal with the poke-a-palooza a little bit, not much mind you, but still. And the HUD effects would include the minimap, for the few people who use the damn thing, and the indicators over friendly/enemy mechs.

[Mystere]

Davers, on 25 August 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

HUD effects are just immersion fluff

I'm quite confident losing targeting information, locks, doritos, reticles, and most especially the entire HUD itself will be more than just "immersion fluff".

[RestosIII]

Mystere, on 25 August 2016 - 08:41 PM, said:

I'm quite confident losing targeting information, locks, doritos, reticles, and most especially the entire HUD itself will be more than just "immersion fluff".

I just remembered. PGI still needs to give us HTAL monitors. PGI PLZ.

Edited by RestosIII, 25 August 2016 - 08:47 PM.

[Davers]

Mystere, on 25 August 2016 - 08:41 PM, said:

I'm quite confident losing targeting information, locks, doritos, reticles, and most especially the entire HUD itself will be more than just "immersion fluff".

We already have loss of targeting information. doritos, locks, and at one time the minimap with ECM- has that removed people's ability to kill each other? LOL Half the players don't press R anyway so they won't even realize it's gone.

Losing a crosshair for several seconds until you pass some heat threshold isn't that big of a deal.

[RestosIII]

Davers, on 25 August 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

We already have loss of targeting information. doritos, locks, and at one time the minimap with ECM- has that removed people's ability to kill each other? LOL Half the players don't press R anyway so they won't even realize it's gone.

Losing a crosshair for several seconds until you pass some heat threshold isn't that big of a deal.

I don't know if you've seen how the average player is at this game if you think it's "no big deal". I can see most of the players I run into absolutely soiling themselves if they didn't have reticle or an indication of who was a friend or foe.

[Mystere]

Davers, on 25 August 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

We already have loss of targeting information. doritos, locks, and at one time the minimap with ECM- has that removed people's ability to kill each other? LOL Half the players don't press R anyway so they won't even realize it's gone.

Hmm. I distinctly recall players loudly and incessantly whining about being unable to tell between friends from foes whenever an enemy ECM Mech was around. But I'm absolutely sure that definitely had nothing to do with friendly doritos eventually being displayed.

Davers, on 25 August 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

Losing a crosshair for several seconds until you pass some heat threshold isn't that big of a deal.

Not if you're being deftly circled by a light, or worse, a wolf pack.

Edited by Mystere, 25 August 2016 - 09:01 PM.

[Davers]

Mystere, on 25 August 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

Hmm. I distinctly recall players loudly and incessantly whining about being unable to tell between friends from foes whenever an enemy ECM Mech was around. But I'm absolutely sure that definitely had nothing to do with friendly doritos eventually being displayed.




Not if you're being deftly circled by a light, or worse, a wolf pack.

So what makes you think PGI would ever add it back in? Quick answer, it won't be. So we will not have to worry about that stuff. So your argument is moot. Any HUD effects will be limited to flickering lights and not actually game affecting mechanics.

[RAM]

Archangel Dino, on 25 August 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

As long as it stays true to the Battletech, I love it.
Speaking of the TT heat scale, I'm not too sure how the penalties would be implemented, but implementing a Heat Max. of 30 would be easy.

30 is not max heat...


RAM
ELH

[ScarecrowES]

For the record... to stem the rampant panic... my initial suggestion of 10 dissipation is probably too high. It has allowed some builds which run extremely cool to come out heat neutral with little chance of seeing regular penalties. 7.5 or 8 might be better, and will incur regular penalties as expected.

It's important to remember that this is not a band-aid system... it is a full replacement of the heat system and does not work quite like the system MWO currently has.

The heat scale itself, which essentially acts as a penalty scale, only accumulates heat, thus penalties that include shut down and whatnot, if you exceed the heat capacity of your mech. This is how the Energy Draw system works currently, except we're using heat directly instead of damage, which eliminates the need to have 2 scales that essentially do exactly the same thing. The fundamentals of the system are the same as base MWO... I shoot, I incur heat. I shoot too much, I get penalized for it. It's just tuned a different way and presented differently.

So yes... if you control your fire and don't exceed capacity, you won't be punished. But you still generate heat. You still have to manage your firing. And if you don't do it well you will still shut down and worse.

It should also be mentioned that exceeding a mere 20 points of heat over your heat capacity will result in a shutdown under my system.

RestosIII, on 25 August 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

I want movement slowdowns and HUD effects from heat, MAYBE ammo detonation chances, depends on PGI's management of it. What I don't want is what this guy proposed of heat straight up not generating as long as you don't go over a threshold. That's just... crazy.

Literally NOT what I proposed, but thanks for disseminating false information.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 25 August 2016 - 11:01 PM.