16 replies to this topic

[Vasili Kerensky]

Can someone explain to me why this tactic is in vogue? When a team drops at the C8 & C9 iirc, behind the hill, then one-third or half of them cross over to the far slope and the rest stay on this side. Invariably, some of them are caught in the valley and the team ends up spread all over the map. Why is this idiocy keeps happening in game after game?

[Koniving]

It is a good map for smaller skirmishes and units tend to spread out so that they can have skirmishes between 2 to 5 mechs.

The middle of the map and any fighting around the hill itself is usually akin to suicide.

[Vasili Kerensky]

I can see that it's en epic fail tactic and no, people won't listen. The reason I'm asking is because I don't think it's Tier 5 new players who initiate this stupidity. Assaults and heavies usually begin running immediately down the slope and lumber up the other side - if they can make it. Confused noobs see them go that way and follow. Those who do so reluctantly and take too long to decide, get caught at the bowl of the valley. First time I saw it happening, I also ran after them or with them (don't rem my speed) and it was obvious by the end of the game that it was an epic fail thing. Since people are NOT learning this, I assume that it's higher-tier people who initiate this idiocy again and again for some obscure reason - that's hidden from my Tier 5 eyes - that drives them to run to the other side.

So, it's just stupid and should not be done or is it about this quest for small skirmishes that makes T4 and T3s make a mess of things?

Edited by Vasili Kerensky, 08 September 2016 - 06:07 PM.

[Koniving]

In a serious Frozen City match...

Gone down the slope.

Circling behind the enemy...


Banshee goes down the slope and back up TWICE to pwn an assault, heavy and light.


LRM squadron...

Going down the slope and coming back up to pwn a bunch of people... with machine guns.

What it is really about is perfect positioning. Getting around the front line to actually be effective. And since by Frozen City's very nature there is no safe place to have a front line, this means there needs to be a minimum of 3 front lines from the very outset.

But once you slip behind someone....

Edited by Koniving, 08 September 2016 - 06:32 PM.

[Xaat Xuun]

which Mode are you referring to ? Domination ? Conquest ?

[Koniving]

In general.

Now in Domination... there's a serious issue if there isn't at least some people trying to hold the middle but even then you need a couple of mechs to watch the tunnel and the slope.

Any other mode, yeah there's no helping it when players spread out.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Like everyone, I've played this map many times and if it is "Assault" I try to give my ideas. SPEAK UP! For me, it is like voting, if you do not vote, you have no right to complain.

Snipers/long range shooters will be needed at the base. Going left through D5 is a death trap unless it is done very quickly and with covering fire from the snipers at the base. But even then it is not the best idea, There is a choke point there and they can fire down open you.

On the other side, the right side, the one with the drop ship is the side to cross and also the side you must defend from a crossing on the other team IMO.

A lot of players do not play as a team, of course. We all know that. Or even as a Lance. I often try to simply get people to buddy up and it does not work that often.

And over the years we humans have lost any patience we once had. Kids do not read the instructions for their games, they just start them. A lot of hunters do not "hunt" anymore, it takes patience and hard work. Instead, they set up a tree stand, set out bait and a trail cam and they call that "hunting".

I tell teammates that I'd rather play defense and allow the other team to cross. But if they have to, to do it together and do it fast while the rest of our team lays down covering fire so they can cross. This works about 37% of the time.....

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 08 September 2016 - 08:17 PM.

[xengk]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ty&m=domination
Attempt D5 crossing if you have long range mech providing cover/distraction at E6, alternatively a lance of fast mech can flanking from G6 and cause havoc while the rest push in center.

[Xaat Xuun]

If it's red, shoot it dead

[Vasili Kerensky]

Kon and LUG, I appreciate the advice but it has no bearing on the situation I'm talking about. What I'm saying is about a team dropping at C7 and thereabouts in a simple Skirmish scenario and the heavier of them lumbering down D5 and up the other side and being lucky if they make it before contact with the enemy. Even if they make it, a part of the team is caught on the right side of the map with some fools caught down at the valley. I can understand why it must be done in an Assault scenario, but not in Skirmish where it's detrimental and leads to defeat. I've never seen those who lumber up the other side attempt to flank the enemy in Skirmish. After all, by the time they get there and trade a few shots, their team has already begun to be whittled down.

[Tarl Cabot]

It is the nascar mentality, location of the closest enemy lance spawns and follow the assaults. The other side usually will cross the southern part of the valley to the high ground previously vacated by the team.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ncity&m=assault

The map was redone and size increased but eastern and southern sectors are rarely traversed. On Assault the bases are close enough and in view of the other ridge that they can be shot at.

[justcallme A S H]

Just do what everyone doesn't. Stay in your spawn city locale area, let the other team just roll on into you.

When most teams cross the usual D5/D4 area, pick them off one by one. Or they come the other way around the dropship choke etc.

It's a crap map at the end of the day compared to the old version. It's just a long range snipe fest and if you're a good shot and have range, you can put plenty of damage into mechs before the majority get close.

[Repasy Cooper]

Is this happening to you primarily in solo drops?

I've done a bit of solo & group dropping on the map and recently, the three most common tactics I've experienced are as follows:

• Teams group up and circumnavigate the death bowl 'nascar' style, trading shots from range until either one group outflanks the other, or one group decides to flip movement and meet the other head on. A brute force tactic that basically results in a coinflip outcome.

• A more tactical approach, the team splits their forces between a small task force of fast mechs and a larger main force of heavy brawlers & fire support. The task force moves in opposite direction from main force around death bowl. If the task force meets enemy main force first, it draws enemy attention with quick guerrilla strikes while using buildings as cover, and the main force moves in to flank from the rear. If the main force meets enemy main force first, the task force dives straight into enemy main force to disrupt their formation, allowing main force to acquire & focus targets with less resistance. The mission is successful if the task force can divert the attention of roughly half of enemy forces and survive long enough to allow main force to gain upper hand in kills, then the task force can regroup with main company and steamroll. It's risky - your fast mech pilots need to know priorities of engagement are to disrupt and not to score kills, and if the enemy has a good eye on their side the task force can fail dramatically.

• If the enemy is hesitant or sluggish in initial movement and spawns on East side, the West side commander can take advantage by moving forces quickly through the death bowl (Echo 5 or Foxtrot 6) before the enemy is able to set up defense, and essentially force enemy into a close-quarters brawl in Echo 7.

If the team is spawning on East side and getting spread out, someone needs to take command and get the company to hold back to set a solid formation (which will probably end up in a brawl @ Echo 6 - Echo 7). The tailing lance may be getting sidetracked, possibly due to an enemy task force diverting their attention per the strategy I outlined above. When this is the case, you need to regroup the company and prepare for an enemy pincer movement: the lights will probably come from Foxtrot 7, and the main force will push up from Echo 5 out of the valley. Best case scenario is to rout enemy task force quickly. You can try hold off main force from Delta 6. This will force enemy task force to either flank around Delta 8, or they will come straight through the firing line in Delta 7 (between the impassable hill @ NE and the set of buildings to the SW). In either case, you can probably suppress them with 1-2 direct-fire supports long enough for your main force to outnumber and crush enemy main force's advance.

Anybody else experience this? Other common scenarios?

Edited by Repasy Cooper, 09 September 2016 - 06:34 AM.

[Count Zero74]

Frozen is so simple guys:

- Fall out of dropship

- turn right

- Nascar away

gl&hf

[JC Daxion]

the same reason why....


People goto theta on mining colony and stand on the ramp

Or people play peak a boo, on terra and not push the center... Or if they do push the center, they crowd the door, which completely defeats the purpose

Or canyon why people stand on the ramps

Or Alpine, that people stand at the bottom of the hill at H7

Or polar, and dom, and not push the radar dish..

Or Grim, where and dom, and people wont even enter the circle.. (though this could be any dom map, PUSH THROUGH and push the other team out..


Or HPG and people play peak on the tower.. (this map has tons of ways to play, and they all involve moving!)



I dunno why man... but the reason is.... PUGLIFE!!!!

[TooDumbToQuit]

Vasili Kerensky, on 09 September 2016 - 12:55 AM, said:

Kon and LUG, I appreciate the advice but it has no bearing on the situation I'm talking about. What I'm saying is about a team dropping at C7 and thereabouts in a simple Skirmish scenario and the heavier of them lumbering down D5 and up the other side and being lucky if they make it before contact with the enemy. Even if they make it, a part of the team is caught on the right side of the map with some fools caught down at the valley. I can understand why it must be done in an Assault scenario, but not in Skirmish where it's detrimental and leads to defeat. I've never seen those who lumber up the other side attempt to flank the enemy in Skirmish. After all, by the time they get there and trade a few shots, their team has already begun to be whittled down.

Yes, I'm sorry I went off in another direction. I did mention "Assault" and I guess the reason I brought it up is that it is almost the same thing in some ways. My bad.

I semi-guess my point was about the lack of patience that players seem to have. PUG or not.

[Xaat Xuun]

JC Daxion, on 09 September 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

the same reason why....


People goto theta on mining colony and stand on the ramp

Or people play peak a boo, on terra and not push the center... Or if they do push the center, they crowd the door, which completely defeats the purpose

Or canyon why people stand on the ramps

Or Alpine, that people stand at the bottom of the hill at H7

Or polar, and dom, and not push the radar dish..

Or Grim, where and dom, and people wont even enter the circle.. (though this could be any dom map, PUSH THROUGH and push the other team out..


Or HPG and people play peak on the tower.. (this map has tons of ways to play, and they all involve moving!)



I dunno why man... but the reason is.... PUGLIFE!!!!

no push when push is called.
many times I felt like some Buster Keaton scene.
Push is called, so in I go, basically I'm the arrow head, somehow always end up being the point in a push, like Buster, I'm there waving my finger in the boss face, ignoring he has a big brute standing next to him because I have a mob at my back, and I point out the mob to the boss and Brute . . and . . where's the mob???