32 replies to this topic

[jiggyjiggy]

If you have ATD installed do you have to be the one who spots the target for this to work, or can anyone spot it and you still get the 3.5 sec bonus on that target?

Also if you have Narc equipped as well as ATD do they stack? The description says that narc, "keeps lock longer." Or am I reading that wrong?

Thanks.

[Wintersdark]

All that matters is that you lock it. If you lock it, but cannot see it yourself - you'll get the 3.5s from the point the spotter loses his lock.

[Boulangerie]

The Advanced Target Decay module affects any targets that you yourself spot and lock. It keeps the target when they would normally break it through loss of vision for the duration stated (there are two levels of the module). It also, basically, counters the Radar Deprivation module, by giving you the module bonus time, but the Radar Derp takes away the normal lock retention time. This results in an almost normal amount of time a lock is held (as if neither module were equipped).

This also allows your teammates to grab the lock you are holding for that short period of time, although it might not result in anything. They probably won't have time to lock on a fire LRMs with just the bonus time for example.

The NARC beacon fires like a single shot unguided rocket. If it hits, it marks the target for the full duration of the NARC. This target is able to be locked by any player for the full duration of the lock, unless they are inside of 2 overlapping ECM umbrellas. I'm unsure if you then gain the ATD bonus time on a target once NARC is locked.

ATD is best used on an LRM using mech, as it can allow your missiles to track and hit a target that has just retreated into cover. You probably won't hit with a ton of missiles if you only fire once they are retreating, especially at longer ranges, but you can get the best use when you are firing on a target which has just begun retreating.

For a pure spotting mech, it can make a great secondary module, as it can give your teammates a longer lock time, as well as giving yourself additional time to get target info to relay onto your team. One example would be to find an exposed side torso on a retreating mech, and if you can relay that info to your team, they will have an advantage the next time that mech pokes.

[TooDumbToQuit]

The combo of targeting info gathering and ATD works well if you are using LRMs or if you are a scout spotting.

[jiggyjiggy]

Does narc also affect Streak SRM's at all? It says Streaks always hit their intended target. So it sounds like narc would be wasted on streaks.

[Wintersdark]

Streaks don't always hit. They always guide towards the target, but intervening terrain, distance, AMS, other mechs - all sorts of things can cause a miss. And remember while the streaks have a given max range, if you're firing at someone running away from you - particularly a very fast light - even if he was in range when you fire, you may well not hit him at all.

NARC's real advantage with Streak SRM's is that if you NARC an ECM light, you'll be able to lock on to it quickly and easily. However, with that said, you'd have been better off running an Active Probe (beagle active probe, clan active probe), which negates one ecm within (iirc) 180m. NARC is big, heavy, and slow - not really worthwhile for a SSRM mech, when an Active Probe will cover you for ECM, while not using a hardpoint and being lighter than the NARC launcher even before ammo.

[Domenoth]

In my limited experience, Boulangerie is correct. Wintersdark may be correct and it's just harder to tell exactly when your teammate loses sight.

EDIT:

Wintersdark, on 14 September 2016 - 07:08 PM, said:

NARC is big, heavy, and slow - not really worthwhile for a SSRM mech

TAG on the other hand, helps lock on times and is not that heavy. I've seen several people using TAG with Streak Crows and it appears to be pretty effective.

Edited by Domenoth, 14 September 2016 - 07:13 PM.

[Tesunie]

I'm seeing a lot of semi-incorrect answers here (of course, I could also be wrong).

jiggyjiggy, on 14 September 2016 - 05:59 PM, said:

If you have ATD installed do you have to be the one who spots the target for this to work, or can anyone spot it and you still get the 3.5 sec bonus on that target?

Also if you have Narc equipped as well as ATD do they stack? The description says that narc, "keeps lock longer." Or am I reading that wrong?

Thanks.

ATD affects only locks you've gotten yourself. However, if you have ATD can you get a lock, the lock is there longer for your whole team. ATD only effects the mech that has it equipped, and only on locks they get themselves.

ATD and Radar Deprivation works mostly like described above by someone else, however it's not an exact trade. Radar Deprivation provides more bonus than the ATD does, so it actually will result in some loss of target time, but it's better than instantly losing your locks!

As for NARC, as long as the target has a NARC beacon on their mech (as in, you shot it like an SRM and hit), than you can have a lock on said target. I believe the NARC lasts for 30 seconds before turning off (unless another mech with ECM is nearby). It does not inherently affect lock times, unless you've hit a target with it.

LikeUntoGod, on 14 September 2016 - 06:57 PM, said:

The combo of targeting info gathering and ATD works well if you are using LRMs or if you are a scout spotting.

Target Info Gathering does nothing to missile lock on times or speeds. This means that Active Probes (Beagle or Clan), Command Module, Targeting Computer and the module Info Gather will not affect missile lock on speeds nor the length of decay on locks. All it does is make it so that you can generate the damage display of the enemy mech sooner/faster.

jiggyjiggy, on 14 September 2016 - 07:01 PM, said:

Does narc also affect Streak SRM's at all? It says Streaks always hit their intended target. So it sounds like narc would be wasted on streaks.

NARC can work on SSRMs, as you can maintain a lock even if you lose sight of a target and then regain sight, as well as it does speed up missile lock on speeds. However, honestly speaking, NARC is not as helpful for SSRMs due to the range. Most likely, if you are using SSRMs, you can see your target easily and don't need NARC.


Overall, if you want faster missile lock on speeds you are looking at TAG, NARC and Artemis. For better target decay (on locks you get), you want ATD and TAG. NARC actually doesn't effect target decay, but instead "broadcasts" the hit target's location to you. UAVs can also be helpful, depending upon when and how it is used. (Free hint: Artemis adds 1 ton of weight to missiles for their effects, however they don't add any weight to Streak systems! If you are boating SSRMs, take Artemis! It will make your lock times much shorter!)

[Wintersdark]

TAG works for streak crows because you can head-mount it. It's not worth taking over another launcher (particularly given the painfully long cycle times) but as the opportunity cost on a streakcrow is so low, it can be a good idea.

[jiggyjiggy]

Great info guys. Thanks to everyone!

Unfortunately the mech I'm upgrading is the CPTL-A1(c) and it has no HP for a tag. It has only missile HP's. I'm trying out a build with 2 LRM15's and 3 streaks.

Currently the build has BAP and NARC installed, but now this sounds to be like a whole lot of redundancy. I guess I should drop the NARC and adjust the build further.

[Void Angel]

LikeUntoGod, on 14 September 2016 - 06:57 PM, said:

The combo of targeting info gathering and ATD works well if you are using LRMs or if you are a scout spotting.

Target information doesn't do anything for lock times - it's purely a scouting and direct-fire module.

[Tesunie]

jiggyjiggy, on 14 September 2016 - 08:00 PM, said:

Great info guys. Thanks to everyone!

Unfortunately the mech I'm upgrading is the CPTL-A1(c) and it has no HP for a tag. It has only missile HP's. I'm trying out a build with 2 LRM15's and 3 streaks.

Currently the build has BAP and NARC installed, but now this sounds to be like a whole lot of redundancy. I guess I should drop the NARC and adjust the build further.

Okay, my suggestion is to remove NARC. From there, get Artemis on your build if you don't already have it. It will help your LRMs and SSRMs, and it will be free weight for SSRMs. As far as your LRMs, you want Artemis on larger launchers, and LRM15s are large enough to warrant Artemist most times.

BAP is going to be essential for your SSRMs, especially against fast ECM mechs who get close. The lack of TAG will hurt you a little, but it is very doable without it.

Take Artemis and BAP, and then take ATD if you have it available. Then, also load up on a UAV on your build. It can help against ECM or some indirect situations.

About the best advise I can give with your current build. I might also suggest replacing SSRMs for normal SRMs, if you have decent gunnery skills. SRMs can deal more damage faster, and don't need locks. They also don't spread out as much as SSRMs do.

Right now, Inner Sphere (the Catapult is an IS faction mech) SSRMs only comes as 2 for size. They are fairly lacking in power and not overly considered very well off in the current form of MW:O. However, I'm not saying you can't use it. Just be aware of it's weaknesses.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Void Angel, on 14 September 2016 - 08:06 PM, said:

Target information doesn't do anything for lock times - it's purely a scouting and direct-fire module.

I never said it did...geez....From what I understand, it speeds up targeting info. So I use it to get locks faster and the ATD to keep it a few seconds longer. But I still always use a TAG for LRMs or Streaks. ECM covered and other Mechs think that they can avoid my LRMs or Streaks and I'm yelling, I'm tagging you BITXH!

I still run my Narc Raven for the practice but even if I win, the amount of C-Bills I make is poor. And please do not explain to me that it is because I'm doing only a small about of damage, I get it. But if you are Narcing, it is smart not to shoot a lot. I was in a mass of the enemy last night quietly Narcing 5 of them before one of them figured it out. (Mechs do not like Narcers or Taggers, lol) If I had shot one of them, I would not have been able to Narc 5 of them.

[Tesunie]

LikeUntoGod, on 15 September 2016 - 05:12 AM, said:

I never said it did...geez....From what I understand, it speeds up targeting info. So I use it to get locks faster and the ATD to keep it a few seconds longer.

We are just informing you that anything that increases data gathering (such as Target Information Gathering and etc) does not do anything to lock speeds. It doesn't make you get locks any faster.

LikeUntoGod, on 15 September 2016 - 05:12 AM, said:

I still run my Narc Raven for the practice but even if I win, the amount of C-Bills I make is poor. And please do not explain to me that it is because I'm doing only a small about of damage, I get it. But if you are Narcing, it is smart not to shoot a lot. I was in a mass of the enemy last night quietly Narcing 5 of them before one of them figured it out. (Mechs do not like Narcers or Taggers, lol) If I had shot one of them, I would not have been able to Narc 5 of them.

Although you have a point, I'd like to mention that5 NARCing 5 targets is rather ineffective when your teammates can only shoot a single one of them at a time, and it is normally better to shoot a single focused target at a given moment.

What you probably should have done would have been to NARC one, maybe two, targets and then withdraw or fight a little. I also have a NARC Raven. I have it with LRMs and NARC. I tend to NARC a single mech, then back away into my team again and lob LRMs at my target as well as any other LRM user.

You'll find, however, that this game doesn't reward support roles as much as we might like it to. I always just consider some of the damage that an LRM mech contributes to my target as my damage as well, as they probably would have been hard pressed to get that damage themselves. But, as stated, it isn't as rewarded as it should be.

I once had a Spider set up with a single TAG and ERPPC. The concept was to jump into odd places behind the enemy and just TAG if my team had LRMs. Then, I'd use the PPC if the enemy spotted me as I withdrew and/or for the later parts of the match. The rewards were not there (because like you said, I wasn't dealing the damage directly), so I altered my Spider to more of a combat role...

[Void Angel]

LikeUntoGod, on 15 September 2016 - 05:12 AM, said:

I never said it did...geez....From what I understand, it speeds up targeting info. So I use it to get locks faster and the ATD to keep it a few seconds longer.

That's exactly what I'm telling you won't work. It can be confusing, though, because we often talk about "targeting" enemies with similar language that we use to describe "target lock." You're not the only one that's been confused by it.

Here's how it works, as simply as I can explain it: When you can detect an enemy, you get the target indicators on your HUD and your minimap - unless ECM is involved, this information is shared with your team. Now, you can also hit the R key (by default) to select a target as your primary target. Once you do this you get the target box around that enemy on your screen, his target indicator fills in on the minimap, and your 'mech's sensor suite starts to analyze his sensor data for more advanced information. After a while (depending primarily on how far away you are,) you get advanced information like loadout and component damage. This is the only thing that the Targeting Info module helps with - time to acquire a lock is not affected.

Missile Locking you're already familiar with - you hold your arm reticle over your primary target, and the lock progress indicator appears around your reticle. The lock will progress as long as you hold the cursor on the 'mech, and if your reticle leaves the target for more than a short period, you lose lock. You also lose lock if you lose the sensor contact - this technically isn't part of the missile lock process, but is the bit affected by Advanced Target Decay.

Edited by Void Angel, 15 September 2016 - 11:24 AM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

So in other words, the Targeting Info Module is basically a waste of space...Fair enough, thanks for the info. My bad! When you only have two Module slots, mounting this is simply a mistake unless you have nothing else.

The reason I Narced all five was a unique moment that rarely happens but oddly, happened twice that day. Both times they were hidden in almost a bowl surrounded by boulders, rocks etc.

Both times this happened, I also dropped an Airstrike on them right after Narcing. The first time, in the canyon map I got hit with a team kill because a Locust on our team ran in front of me to shoot them. And he died.

Both times it did force them to leave their hiding spot.

The reasons I Narced all five. I'm carrying 3 and 1/2 tons of Narc Ammo with 3 med lasers. I know that is a lot of ammo but again, I'm practicing. And I do not consider and use Narcs just for LRMs. Maybe only a few people have LRMs in that match, or the map is poor for the use of them or more likely, they are instead shooting at a target they already have. And I often mention before the match starts to please look for the Wi-Fi symbol and to please target that Mech. Over and over in matches, I'm surprised when someone is Narcing and not one missile is ever fired at them. It seems like 95% of the players that Narc never mention that they did it. 99% of the time I'm the one that says on the comms that "Foxtrot is Narced, if you have missiles, please fire at him".

My Unit does not even use LRMs but from time to time we will do what we call "playing dirty" and will break our LRMs boats. The last time we did this was a disaster, lol.

Besides the fact that I'm practicing shooting Narcs and I do not consider them only for missiles. Both times I also wanted my team to know that there were 5 enemy mechs hidden here. And it is hard sometimes to tell and explain QUICKLY to your teammates that 5 Mechs are hidden in this tiny spot in a map square. But if I Narc all 5 of them, everyone now knows.

So wheen I say I say I Narced 5 of them in a bunch and they are hiding here, the team I think understands better. It's like trying to say "there is a bunch of them coming around the mountain at F6". That is OK, but I try to get a more exact number and to at least briefly try to target one of them. Then I can say "Lima and 5 friends are coming around the mountain at F6" and they can see Lima targeted so they have a better idea what I'm talking about.

And again, I'm in Tier 6 so the chances of everyone being together and picking one target is slim at best.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 15 September 2016 - 01:47 PM.

[Tesunie]

Fair enough tactic LikeUnto. Information is important. Knowing where 5 targets are can be a big help.

[Rogue Jedi]

Target info gathering is useless for a LRM or Streak SRM, I however find it to be extremely useful on a sniper, harresser or brawler because faster target info better allows you to see the enemies weak spots.
Like many modules it is useful in certain situations.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Rogue Jedi, on 15 September 2016 - 10:44 PM, said:

Target info gathering is useless for a LRM or Streak SRM, I however find it to be extremely useful on a sniper, harresser or brawler because faster target info better allows you to see the enemies weak spots. Like many modules it is useful in certain situations.

I can see that, but on the other hand, I cannot see well, lol. For me to be able to aim and hit a certain spot, even a leg, they have to be a bit close, too close often.

That is why I always target, It helps me see the enemy mech and honestly, I just aim for the middle unless they are very close.

I really thought it helps get locks faster. I also have ADV Sensor Range, I guess that helps some....But I guess there is nothing really for it.

One thing I love is ADV Seismic. It helps me ambush and not get ambushed. During matches, I keep thinking that I bet that guy wonders how I know he is about to peek over that ridge, lol.

Tesunie, on 15 September 2016 - 08:58 PM, said:

Fair enough tactic LikeUnto. Information is important. Knowing where 5 targets are can be a big help.

Thank you! I consider that in that Mech, that is my job.

(LUG for short)

[TooDumbToQuit]

Last night was a perfect example of the many things I complain about....

I only play about 3-5 matches a day and last night I thought my mouse was going crazy and then I realized it was just my hand shaking. In two weeks I'm supposed to get my surgery date and I cannot wait!

ANYWAY, we are in the canyons and this Direwolf Pilot start the "hold the locks for me" crap. And I'm really tired of getting my torso shot off trying to stay in the open and get and hold a lock for someone 600ms back of me.

So like I always do, I tell him, you need to get your own locks, you need to use a TAG, you need to only fires LRMs within 600ms etc. And 3-4 others also chime in with the same and he kind of complains that he cannot use them without help.

So the battle starts and we have two disconnects....great....They really push but we are hitting them hard but wow, there are a lot of them. I check and we are down 2. Then I look at my map and that Direwolf has moved in the far corner where the base wold be if it was assault.Something like 800 plus meters behind us at least. I'm like WTF? and two others tell him to get into the fight. So we were paying our 9 against their 12. And we are getting beat because as you all know, a difference like that can often simply turn the game against you. Then the Direwolf goes "gray" and someone said, he went AFK! (I'm not sure what gray means really). I kill one mech while fight 3 and I die from behind.

PUG life, what can I say.....