37 replies to this topic

[627]

With this current event or maybe in general you mostly see 3 variants of strom crows in scout mode, SRM Bomber, Small (pulse) boats and StreakCrows.

While griffins and Cents are a good counter to those I wonder if it is possible to counter the Streaks with AMS.

Looking at smurfy, the heaviest IS mech that can carry dual AMS is a crab, after that with 45 tons a vindi and pheonix hawk but I think a STD crab would be the most tanky from those 3.

I don't own crabs, so this is just a quick and dirty build: CRB-27

With the AMS overload this should be enough for a scout game but I'm curious; will this help or are that 3 wasted tons you could better invest into better guns? Has this been tested already?

And will AMS work against regular SRMs too? I haven't used AMS for ages I think...

[justcallme A S H]

With a STD engine streakcrows are so little of a worry... Even if 4 of them alpha you, you're not even close to dead.

Just remember AMS only really works if the AMS is below the missile - any missiles ABOVE the AMS mount point, tend not to be taken out.

Better mechs to take, but that would work either way.

[Albino Boo]

ECM is a better counter to the average streak crow than AMS.

[627]

Albino Boo, on 12 September 2016 - 12:04 AM, said:

ECM is a better counter to the average streak crow than AMS.

How's that? Almost all streakcrows carry a cap and a tag these days. I haven't seen a single streakCrow not able to fire at all. ECM is a useless counter, it only helps if you're fast enough because the longer lockon times, but the cap will deactivate it anyway.

Edited by 627, 12 September 2016 - 01:20 AM.

[Albino Boo]

627, on 12 September 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

How's that? Almost all streakcrows carry a cap and a tag these days. I haven't seen a single streakCrow not able to fire at all. ECM is a useless counter, it only helps if you're fast enough because the longer lockon times, but the cap will deactivate it anyway.

1. ECM helps with all mechs not just streak crows.
2. You are assuming that you experience is universal. As clan player I see far more non bap and tag streakcrows than ones with.
3. Dual AMS does nothing to non missile crows and is deadweight
4. If you dont move, shoot and move through cover, the odds are that you will lose anyway.

Edited by Albino Boo, 12 September 2016 - 01:47 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

The only mech I would take for AMS purposes is the Kit Fox; a 3 AMS, ECM clan light mech. But since you are saying Scout mode why not just take something like a locust, commando, or spider with ECM and use your speed to stay out of range of those close range weapons? Then at end of match when you have to rush the pick up zone just time it right.

As for hunting the enemy well use your speed to collect more if not all and deny them the intel points in their win.

[Bud Crue]

When scouting first came out and all the clanners seemed to drop in were streak/SRMCrows, our groups tried various combinations of Griffins and Crabs with the Crabs sporting 2AMS with overload and ams range modules. Even with 3 Crabs all that AMS didn't seems to make much difference. So even when you KNEW you were going up against mostly Crows AMS didn't seem to be worth the weight. Now that Streakcrows are less frequent (last time I tried scouting there were more Nova's than Crows) I would think AMS is an even greater waste of tonnage when scouting.

[Appogee]

I tried AMS a while back as a counter to Streaks and it made little difference.

ECM is only effective if multiple IS Mechs take it. Most Clanners also take TAG and BAP, and pop a UAV ... each of which overcomes a single IS ECM.

The best counter to Clan EZmode is to use a max-tonnage high alpha Mech in close quarter combat, taking out their legs. This limits Clan range advantage, reduces their survivable XL side torso advantage, and leverages IS heat advantage.

Splat Griffins, and multi-SPL Hunchbacks, work best.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Even with a Kit Fox, a Streak missile has way too much speed and health to actually bring down satisfactorily.

In a cloud of 30 missiles, you will bring down at most 3-4 of them when fired from max range, and maybe 1 if you're lucky if they fire at close range. The best counter to SRM crows and SSRM crows is range, if anything. Bring a fast light, break a leg, and make them eat your dust.

If that's not an option, then facetank them and deal as much damage as you can with small pulses or SRMs. SSRMs have horrible DPS, and what they can't kill in an alpha usually will kill them given time. I've been able to get face-to-face with a Skillcrow in a KFX with 4x SPL and 4x MG and came out on top, simply because he couldn't eat through my armour before I could melt his CT. SSRMs target 7 components (RA, RT, LT, LA, LL, RL), each with equal hit probability. This means that in a cloud of 30 SSRMs of 60 damage, each component will usually only take on average just below 10 damage per 6 seconds. A terrifying alpha strike, but extremely hot and spread out.

Simply put, SSRMs aren't that scary if you are willing to take them down with you. And you usually don't even go down with them.

Edited by Fox With A Shotgun, 12 September 2016 - 03:22 AM.

[Appogee]

Clownwarlord, on 12 September 2016 - 03:00 AM, said:

why not just take something like a locust, commando, or spider with ECM and use your speed to stay out of range of those close range weapons? Then at end of match when you have to rush the pick up zone just time it right.

Because Skillcorws will kill any of those Mechs as they try to reach the extraction zone, if not before.

Remember, Skillcrows only have to be 360m from you to get a lock and send on average 36 points of self-guided damage (3xC-SSRM6) at you, with zero need to aim. Some even take more C-SSRMs than that.

If you can keep multiple Light, fast Mechs alive until the point of pickup, then I suppose that strategy might work because one of you will probably survive if you time it right.

However, I've played a lot of scouting matches, and trying to rush into the extraction zone at the last minute is a far riskier strategy than the one I described earlier.

Edited by Appogee, 12 September 2016 - 03:29 AM.

[627]

Clownwarlord, on 12 September 2016 - 03:00 AM, said:

The only mech I would take for AMS purposes is the Kit Fox; a 3 AMS, ECM clan light mech. But since you are saying Scout mode why not just take something like a locust, commando, or spider with ECM and use your speed to stay out of range of those close range weapons? Then at end of match when you have to rush the pick up zone just time it right.

As for hunting the enemy well use your speed to collect more if not all and deny them the intel points in their win.

well a locust may be good for collecting points but how to win? when the enemy is in the dropzone you lose, even if you jump in on the last second.


To make it clear, it was not about killing them in the first place, just if AMS would counter them. Killing a skillcrow is rather simple if you take anything that splats, even my sturdy cent can do this with ease. But these answers are what I expected and AMS is still a waste of tonnage.

Edited by 627, 12 September 2016 - 03:28 AM.

[Count Zero74]

We did some extensive Lobby testing when scouting was introduced.

AMS and specially double AMS can shoot down surprisingly many Streaks if they are fired from more than 200m away. But we found that every mech has certain dead zones where the AMS doesn't work against Streaks at ll. For example on the Crab the AMS does not fire when the streaks come from the rear.

Our conclusion was that AMS can be effective against Streaks but in general its not worth the tonnage.

And by the way don't bother with all that scouting crap. After the event noone will scout again. So who cares.

[Appogee]

Count Zero74, on 12 September 2016 - 03:29 AM, said:

And by the way don't bother with all that scouting crap. After the event noone will scout again. So who cares.

And yet, they will whine like crap when lack of scouting causes the enemy to get Long Tom.

[Count Zero 74]

No event = no scouting = no Long Tom

[Husker Dude]

Albino Boo, on 12 September 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

2. You are assuming that you experience is universal. As clan player I see far more non bap and tag streakcrows than ones with.

[Mystere]

Count Zero74, on 12 September 2016 - 03:29 AM, said:

And by the way don't bother with all that scouting crap. After the event noone will scout again. So who cares.

If one wants fast matches and 4x4, it's the only thing there is. So yes, people care even if you yourself don't. No one is pointing an RPG to your head to play.

Edited by Mystere, 12 September 2016 - 10:10 AM.

[exiledangel]

1 oxide and 3 griffin 2n

focus fire and its only requires 2 alphas per mech to kill 1 crow

PS a lot of the crows take off armor from the legs so one good alpha will rip 1 leg right of can cripple the other one.

aim for the novas shoulder and you take a leg along with half its weapons lol

[Count Zero 74]

Mystere, on 12 September 2016 - 09:07 AM, said:

If one wants fast matches and 4x4, it's the only thing there is. So yes, people care even if you yourself don't. No one is pointing an RPG to your head to play.

No problem if people scout, my point is that outside of events there are so few that it doesn't matter for invasion. If they have a great time scouting and like it, hey go ahead.

[LordNothing]

Albino Boo, on 12 September 2016 - 12:04 AM, said:

ECM is a better counter to the average streak crow than AMS.

agree, especially in packs. bap can counter one ecm, but not 4.

[Jman5]

Yes, bringing an AMS to scouting for Inner Sphere is a good idea because Streak-6s are so popular there. Even though my Hunchback 4SP can only equip 1 AMS, I still bring one. In my build for example, I trade a whopping 1.6 KPH by downgrading my engine from a 275 to a 270 and I get a little extra damage reduction against all missile types for me and my teammates.

I think if the game told you how many missiles your AMS destroyed, people would appreciate them more.