13 replies to this topic

[AncientRaig]

I've been refining my build for my CN9-AL as I've been grinding out the XP and c-bills to elite it and give it modules, and I'm currently happy with my weapons load, so this is a question between these two builds only. I'm not interesting in LPL boating or something like that for this mech right now.

First build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0438c44876225be

Second build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...56a2539c2d7c7da

You may notice that these builds are very similar, save for the SRM4 + Artemis on the first build, which is my current build and the extra DHS and lack of Artemis on the second. I'm wondering, basically, if Artemis is a good idea for this build. It's generally a support or brawler, depending on the situation, but I've been finding that, as I got the fast fire skill and progressively higher cooldown modules for my lasers, I've been running hotter than I'm comfortable with, and on hotter maps even shut down a few times securing a kill, a problem I never ran into before I got the cooldown bonuses. So I'm wondering if Artemis is worth it on a single launcher over an extra DHS, as I'm personally somewhat conflicted.

Edited by Sidefire, 13 September 2016 - 03:57 PM.

[maimaimi]

well, im no expert on IS mech builds but that looks extremely unfocused...

1 large laser is simply not enough to do much at range
3 medium lasers are not really enough for midrange combat
1 srm4 is pretty a joke

that's an ankle bighter mech, not enough fire power at any range, and not enough armor to face time a heavy and let its DPS win out

you would be better off if you focus on doing one thing really well, for example mount (4MPL and 2SRM6 - 200range assasin), or (2 ERL and 2 LRM5 - 600range skirmisher) or just run (3ERL - sniper)

specialize into one range class and focus on dealing damage that way

for example this could reliably put down a full health assault via back attack at 200m:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...78c642f157f4d09

Edited by maimaimi, 13 September 2016 - 05:36 PM.

[AncientRaig]

maimaimi, on 13 September 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

well, im no expert on IS mech builds but that looks extremely unfocused...

1 large laser is simply not enough to do much at range
3 medium lasers are not really enough for midrange combat
1 srm4 is pretty a joke

that's an ankle bighter mech, not enough fire power at any range, and not enough armor to face time a heavy and let its DPS win out

you would be better off if you focus on doing one thing really well, for example mount (4MPL and 2SRM6 - 200range assasin), or (2 ERL and 2 LRM5 - 600range skirmisher) or just run (3ERL - sniper)

specialize into one range class and focus on dealing damage that way

for example this could reliably put down a full health assault via back attack at 200m:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...78c642f157f4d09

And yet I regularly push 7-800 damage per match. You'd be surprised at how much damage this build can actually put out, especially at brawling range, but since you're more used to clan weapons, and this isn't a meta build, I'm not surprised that it looks like a bad setup.

[justcallme A S H]

With that build in T5 maybe? I'd need half a dozen screenshots to believe it'd be a regular occurrence.Just spamming a single LL for 9 points of damage, in a relatively low mount is just, meh. And to get 800 damage? You'd literally have to fire it the entire game because lord knows I wouldn't get close with just a SRM4/ML as the main weapons. You asked for feedback, so people are gonna give it to you.

If it was me, I'd go THIS, a potent and fast striker, huge threat, can take a beatdown and annihilate lights and other Meds as long as you SHIELD with the spare arm (Which is the Cent's biggest weakness). Shoot, move, twist. Reconfig to suit.

Or if you like to live on the edge and truly wanna take onboad "non meta" try Madness 1 or Madness 2 or even Full ****** 1
The Madness builds are actually doing some decent damage over a puny single LL. 2 of them or 2 LPL, much more battle affecting.

And no, for a single SRM4 it is an absolute waste having a SRM#A given it's not really effective.

Just spamming a single LL for 9 points of damage, in a relatively low mount is just *meh*. You asked for feedback, so people are gonna give it to you.

[AncientRaig]

justcallme A S H, on 13 September 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

With that build in T5 maybe? I'd need half a dozen screenshots to believe it'd be a regular occurrence.Just spamming a single LL for 9 points of damage, in a relatively low mount is just, meh. And to get 800 damage? You'd literally have to fire it the entire game because lord knows I wouldn't get close with just a SRM4/ML as the main weapons. You asked for feedback, so people are gonna give it to you.

If it was me, I'd go THIS, a potent and fast striker, huge threat, can take a beatdown and annihilate lights and other Meds as long as you SHIELD with the spare arm (Which is the Cent's biggest weakness). Shoot, move, twist. Reconfig to suit.

Or if you like to live on the edge and truly wanna take onboad "non meta" try Madness 1 or Madness 2 or even Full ****** 1
The Madness builds are actually doing some decent damage over a puny single LL. 2 of them or 2 LPL, much more battle affecting.

And no, for a single SRM4 it is an absolute waste having a SRM#A given it's not really effective.

Just spamming a single LL for 9 points of damage, in a relatively low mount is just *meh*. You asked for feedback, so people are gonna give it to you.

I'm actually in high T4 right now since I've only been playing this game heavily for a couple of months. I can definitely provide you with screenshots once I do some more battles. That won't be an issue. I'd give you them sooner, but sadly MWO lacks a replay system of any kind. And 700 damage isn't that hard to get to with a 32.5 damage alpha strike. You act as if the only weapon on the mech is that LL. Also, all of your "non-meta" offers look pretty meta to me. Plus they're running XLs, which I'm trying to avoid so I can use more of my mech as a shield to soak damage away from my CT. It's actually pretty effective.

[justcallme A S H]

XL in a IS medium is dangerzone. Just cause "meta mechs" has it and I put a XL build up, doesn't mean it is actually "the" meta. The meta is always shifting after balances/patches etc. Hence I wouldn't class any of the builds I stuck up as "meta", they are crazy, but done right, powerful (I didn't even look at Meta Mechs btw, just hacked them up quickly so they might overlap, i dunno?).


Wait till you climb tiers good sir, you'll find out what works and what doesn't, part of the learning process really as T5/T4 people can't aim well. T1's will take you apart and know which arm to rip off first

The biggest issue is it's not really a good alpha as you have a much longer burn time on the LL compared to the ML is haphazard. And you said it yourself here:

Sidefire, on 13 September 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

I've been running hotter than I'm comfortable with, and on hotter maps even shut down a few times securing a kill, a problem I never ran into before I got the cooldown bonuses.

The mech already has pretty decent heat capacity, 43% on Smurfy (which doesn't include any quirks), is pretty decent as far as cooling goes. Most of my mechs (aside from Assault brawlers) run way hotter. Overheat/Shutdown in a Med is almost instant death in higher tiers, I promise you that.

The reason is you are overheating is you're firing a LL in a brawl, which is really not idea. Taking the LL out and just firing the brawl alpha is 23 points of damage. Not a lot. The cooldowns also do not really match up properly either with the LL, that is probably my main grip. You're just giving soooo much facetime in battle to give focus fire.


Anyway, that's all I've gotta say, I mean all my feedback as constructive as the other guy did too, but you seem to be taking offence to it for some reason and needing to defend, while asking advice... That confuses me a bit. I have no issue helping people where I can

[AncientRaig]

justcallme A S H, on 13 September 2016 - 07:13 PM, said:

XL in a IS medium is dangerzone. Just cause "meta mechs" has it and I put a XL build up, doesn't mean it is actually "the" meta. The meta is always shifting after balances/patches etc. Hence I wouldn't class any of the builds I stuck up as "meta", they are crazy, but done right, powerful (I didn't even look at Meta Mechs btw, just hacked them up quickly so they might overlap, i dunno?).


Wait till you climb tiers good sir, you'll find out what works and what doesn't, part of the learning process really as T5/T4 people can't aim well. T1's will take you apart and know which arm to rip off first

The biggest issue is it's not really a good alpha as you have a much longer burn time on the LL compared to the ML is haphazard. And you said it yourself here:



The mech already has pretty decent heat capacity, 43% on Smurfy (which doesn't include any quirks), is pretty decent as far as cooling goes. Most of my mechs (aside from Assault brawlers) run way hotter. Overheat/Shutdown in a Med is almost instant death in higher tiers, I promise you that.

The reason is you are overheating is you're firing a LL in a brawl, which is really not idea. Taking the LL out and just firing the brawl alpha is 23 points of damage. Not a lot. The cooldowns also do not really match up properly either with the LL, that is probably my main grip. You're just giving soooo much facetime in battle to give focus fire.


Anyway, that's all I've gotta say, I mean all my feedback as constructive as the other guy did too, but you seem to be taking offence to it for some reason and needing to defend, while asking advice... That confuses me a bit. I have no issue helping people where I can

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as overly defensive, but I was mostly just wanting to know if the Artemis was worth it. Also, the AL has some nice quirks so the LL doesn't really burn for very long, plus it has a cooldown bonus to the LL itself so the cooldown difference is barely noticeable. I believe it's somewhere around 20% for the burn time and 5% for the cooldown. I've found that it's not that much facetime, but I am playing lower levels so I may find that things change as I go up.

[justcallme A S H]

Yeah Artemis, not worth it.

Well if it has LL quirks, IMO, you wanna focus to that and stick two at least on there and go spamming.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 13 September 2016 - 08:05 PM.

[maimaimi]

i hate to say it but im not sure i believe the claim to 800 damage in any majority of games with that build...

even my spec 4c-ERL nova sniping all game only gets around 700damage(4 or more kills) on a good game, but usually averages 400-600damage, that boasts double the range and damage of a IS-ERL with the same quirks using omnipods and a 44 damage alpha strike that can core unlucky mech's in one hit at 800m (without overheating)

Edited by maimaimi, 13 September 2016 - 11:59 PM.

[AncientRaig]

maimaimi, on 13 September 2016 - 11:33 PM, said:

i hate to say it but im not sure i believe the claim to 800 damage in any majority of games with that build...

even my spec 4c-ERL nova sniping all game only gets around 700damage(4 or more kills) on a good game, but usually averages 400-600damage, that boasts double the range and damage of a IS-ERL with the same quirks using omnipods and a 44 damage alpha strike that can core unlucky mech's in one hit at 800m (without overheating)

Two things. First, brawling mechs tend to get more damage as opponents twist to avoid being hit more effectively than they do when someone's poking them from 800m away. It may sound counter intuitive, but I'm more likely to be prepared to twist my shield arm against a mech 200 to 400 meters away from me that I can see than I am if I get hit by someone on the other end of the map that I can't see. Also, my damage figures are probably closer to 680-780ish. Since they tend to fluctuate I rounded up to a more solid number.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Sidefire, on 13 September 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

I'm actually in high T4 right

let me stop you right there. First, there is no difference between being at the top or bottom of a tier. Second, tier 4 and 5 are inherently matched together, so your strength of schedule now is no different than when you first started.

That said, I join the majority in that I find that build to be a bit on the weak side. So if you are in fact putting out relatively high damage, then take this all as a compliment, because the likely reason for that (which is usually always true) is because you are better pilot than your opponents.

So ask yourself this: How much better would my performance be if I were to use a more optimized build?

If you like the large laser, try this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9d0c99fe19edda5

Live fast, die young (brawler): http://mwo.smurfy-ne...76663a64f4c2f16

[Spheroid]

No that is a bad build. I recommend 2x LLAS, 2x mlas, 2x SRM4 one ton ammo with your choice of engine. Makes for nice range brackets.

I haven't driven my Centurions in a long time though.

[Boulangerie]

When I first got the AL, before quirks, I'd run it with 2xPPCs, 2ML, and LRM5s. Yes it was under-engined and I was pretty bad at building then.

After quirks, I decided to try 2LL, 2ML and LRM5s. It was pretty effective, but LRMs are still pretty bad when you only take a couple. I think SRMs would be better. This was still using a STD engine.

I finally upgraded to 3LL and a STD 260. At that point, it had great LL quirks and ran super cool. I could alpha quickly and for quite awhile, and the duration was sick. I had a lot of great games with this setup, although I felt weird not using all of the hardpoints.

Recently, after the LL quirk nerf, I decided to take advantage of the highly efficient LPL, and built it with a large XL engine (270/275) and 3LPLs. This build finally kicked it over the edge for me. Now this thing hits like a truck at medium ranges, although the mounts are still a little low. Your chest mount is actually the highest one. You can side poke very well, and I didn't miss the STD as much as I thought I would. Shielding is still effective with your arm, even though you'll have to de-commit once you lose the LA. I recently got Ace of Spades achievement with this mech on HPG Manifold!

I am definitely not a slave to the meta, and have plenty of builds which I am sure are not optimal. One of my favorite activities is to try new things, and that's the main reason I tried this build. I'm glad I did, and will probably be picking up modules for LPL soon to enhance it even more. If I had to try another build, I'd suggest 2LL, 2ML and maybe 2SRM4s as a mobile striker.

As for Artemis with a single launcher, I'd suggest dropping that and adding another missile instead. 2 SRM4 is much better than SRM6+A. SRM4 and SRM2 is probably better than SRM4+A as well, if you need to keep the tonnage the same.

Don't be afraid to shave a little bit of armor off that LA, and the legs don't really need to be full either, unless you are doing scouting with it (no ammo, and ppl don't often aim legs in quick play).

[Cato Phoenix]

I would go with Spheroid's build.

Although personally I sold my AL a long time ago.