Although I don't think weapon balance is anywhere near fine, but that's not the point I'm trying to make here so yeah let's assume that it was fine.
But what about mech balance? I have 120+ mechs in my mechlab, yet every time I take a ride to QP, I just shake heads to perhaps 100 of them---because they are just too weak to make an impact on how the game goes. Take my Black knights for an example: It was fine back when it had ML quirks making it a laser vomit mech that has a bit shorter range and more sustain (and it was a very nice change of pace for me.). But now? The low hardpoints make it so hard to poke--before you can reveal your belly laser you just get 60+ laser vomit at your nice little helmet, yay. Side poke is, in theory, possible but why pull out a 75 tonner when a 55 ton SHD can poke better with 3 LPLs? If you want to side poke with PPCs---just take a BJ please. I'm not even going to compare it with other popular mechs like, I dunno, Timber wolves?
VTR, HGN, DRG, The underdog list goes on and on and on.
I do not mind anything from ED system, from "ruining the perfect balance" to "adding complexity", as long as it brings those mechs with more hardpoints and/or better weapon placement a bit more in line with those collecting dust in the hanger.
If anyone, prompts any solution, that they claim is better than ED or whatever, please make sure the suggestion will solve mech balance as well. And hopefully without mech-specific weapon quirks, too. We all know why we moved away from that.
btw, PTS4 ruined energy boats, or anything that can't slap dual gauss on for me, have these people ever heard of goose waffle before they think of a low heat cap?
1
But What About Mech Balance?
Started by Arkroma, Sep 14 2016 09:27 AM
4 replies to this topic
#2
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- Liquid Metal
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Posted 14 September 2016 - 09:46 AM
There is no heat system(cause thats what both gh and ed are) that can solve problems with mech balance.
Because mech capability is dictated mainly by hardpoint placement...
Because mech capability is dictated mainly by hardpoint placement...
#3
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- CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
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- LocationSnow
Posted 14 September 2016 - 09:56 AM
You start with the base of balance before going into specifics...
They've never really had a base
They've never really had a base
#4
Posted 14 September 2016 - 10:41 AM
It's basically impossible.
Mechs are much more than bags of hardpoints, they all have different numbers, locations (both in terms of height relative to cockpit and to which component they're on for slot restrictions), different physical forms offering various hitbox opportunities, pros and cons with actuators, the list goes on and on.
And that's not getting into how weapon balance changes the value of hardpoint types and numbers (6 Arm Energy hardpoints is awesome when 6xsmall lasers is The Bee's Knees, but 6 ballistic hardpoints has no real value over 1 when AC20's are the ****)... Etc.
It's easy to say they could do better; indeed, they COULD do better with regular iterations, but quirks are basically the only real balancing factor between mechs. Because things keep changing, and will continue to change for as long as MWO is actively developed, we'll never have what people feel is good mech balance.
But this doesn't mean it can't be better.
Regular, small iterations! I'd like to see something like:
SMALL quirk buffs to the 3 weakest mechs, and SMALL quirk nerfs to the 3 strongest mechs, every patch, with no mech modified two months in a row. But *SMALL* changes. This wouldn't be a instant Look It's All Fixed holy grail, but it would create a constant movement towards center without huge balance swings, and you'd see balance improved on 6 mechs every month.
Why only 3 and 3? Dev time, and to avoid making sweeping changes which always have severe problem spots - there's limited dev time to do this, and the more they're loaded down the worse of a job they do (too much copy-paste, which results in silly things like Highlanders without Ballistic hardpoints getting ballistic buffs). This is small. It could be easily addressed in a couple hours - say, the first monday of the month, you spend the morning determining the top and bottom three mechs, then slightly nerf/buff them. That's it. Minimal effort, but constant progress. That way, while people would still complain (Minimally viable! Too little, too late!) at least we'd have constant, visible progress.
EVERY patch would have iterative balance changes, something you could always look forward to.
Mechs are much more than bags of hardpoints, they all have different numbers, locations (both in terms of height relative to cockpit and to which component they're on for slot restrictions), different physical forms offering various hitbox opportunities, pros and cons with actuators, the list goes on and on.
And that's not getting into how weapon balance changes the value of hardpoint types and numbers (6 Arm Energy hardpoints is awesome when 6xsmall lasers is The Bee's Knees, but 6 ballistic hardpoints has no real value over 1 when AC20's are the ****)... Etc.
It's easy to say they could do better; indeed, they COULD do better with regular iterations, but quirks are basically the only real balancing factor between mechs. Because things keep changing, and will continue to change for as long as MWO is actively developed, we'll never have what people feel is good mech balance.
But this doesn't mean it can't be better.
Regular, small iterations! I'd like to see something like:
SMALL quirk buffs to the 3 weakest mechs, and SMALL quirk nerfs to the 3 strongest mechs, every patch, with no mech modified two months in a row. But *SMALL* changes. This wouldn't be a instant Look It's All Fixed holy grail, but it would create a constant movement towards center without huge balance swings, and you'd see balance improved on 6 mechs every month.
Why only 3 and 3? Dev time, and to avoid making sweeping changes which always have severe problem spots - there's limited dev time to do this, and the more they're loaded down the worse of a job they do (too much copy-paste, which results in silly things like Highlanders without Ballistic hardpoints getting ballistic buffs). This is small. It could be easily addressed in a couple hours - say, the first monday of the month, you spend the morning determining the top and bottom three mechs, then slightly nerf/buff them. That's it. Minimal effort, but constant progress. That way, while people would still complain (Minimally viable! Too little, too late!) at least we'd have constant, visible progress.
EVERY patch would have iterative balance changes, something you could always look forward to.
#5
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- Littlest Helper
- 29,240 posts
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- Location#NOToTaterBalance #BadBalanceOverlordIsBad
Posted 14 September 2016 - 11:13 AM
Mcgral18, on 14 September 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:
You start with the base of balance before going into specifics...
They've never really had a base
They've never really had a base
You'd have to learn AND play the mech.
SpreadsheetWarrior has no business if you don't even understand the deficiencies, let alone the proficiencies.
This is a form of Lostech.
Edited by Deathlike, 14 September 2016 - 11:13 AM.
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