74 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

As a famous under-engined light, consider Adder-Prime with daul PPCs and 14 double heat sinks (8 internal + 6 external) with fully elite skill tree

• On live it has: 3.16 Heat per second dissipation (with 56 heat cap)
  
• On PTS 5, it has 2.93 Heat per second dissipation (with 47.1 heat cap)

The normalization of heat sinks is a positive move... but on what planet this change is acceptable?!

Current dissipation numbers are a fail

DHS MUST have 0.2 dissipation and cool run MUST be 15% (on elite) for this to work.... I hope PGI understands this before we are at PTS11

PGI... stop resisting so much... You are the boss... you have the power...we know.
Yet...the world will not end if you listen FOR ONCE!

Edited by Navid A1, 17 September 2016 - 01:38 AM.

[TheLuc]

Guys, what ever we say do or not do, the game is not ours and only reasons most players stick around is because of the name and the designs from Alex. Otherwise it would be a ghost town.

I didn't try the PTS so I have no clue how it affect the game, all I know is that ED is Ghost heat 2.0, more it goes less Battletech we get in Mechwarrior Online.

Navid, sorry Russ wont listen, he never did and if the community would be more united with all wallets closed then he would MAYBE listen or most probably just shut down the game.

[PraetorGix]

TheLuc, on 17 September 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

Navid, sorry Russ wont listen, he never did and if the community would be more united with all wallets closed then he would MAYBE listen or most probably just shut down the game.

Well, that's only half the problem... The other half is that Russ is still listening to that Inouiye guy, lord of balance darts.

[shopsmart]

I haven't played MOW for 2 months now. Got sucked into fallout 4. I like what I am seeing and reading with energy draw. It also sounds like alot more participation than the last PTS last year. Guys need to bribe people into playing the PTS. I might, but as I stated, I am playing other things.

I use to play armored core on playstation and energy weapons had an energy draw system. So I am no stranger to this concept and look forward to it. When it is implemented, you will probably see me back.

[BLOOD WOLF]

TheLuc, on 17 September 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

Guys, what ever we say do or not do, the game is not ours and only reasons most players stick around is because of the name and the designs from Alex. Otherwise it would be a ghost town.

I didn't try the PTS so I have no clue how it affect the game, all I know is that ED is Ghost heat 2.0, more it goes less Battletech we get in Mechwarrior Online.

Navid, sorry Russ wont listen, he never did and if the community would be more united with all wallets closed then he would MAYBE listen or most probably just shut down the game.

your second paragraph is contradictory. If you didn't try it there is no way you know that it is GH 2.0

sorry these arguments are not helping the anti-ED crowd. You're gonna need a little more data and a little less conjecture.

[Punnisher]

I love the fact that lrm's seem to finally be getting some love... here area few suggestions for you:

1: speed up the lrms ( we missile boats spend far too much time having to keep facing on the target for the missiles to hit
that we end up being exposed too much and get taken out far faster than any other system in the game ( I know some
are going to say that we can hide behind terrain and fire indirect, but we all know how well that ends up working:*)

2: give the IS missile systems what the Clans have now, and give us the full dmg regardless of point blank range we are
supposed to have ( you have effectively tested the dmg limiter with Us Clanners already )

[MovinTarget]

Punnisher, on 17 September 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

I love the fact that lrm's seem to finally be getting some love... here area few suggestions for you:

1: speed up the lrms ( we missile boats spend far too much time having to keep facing on the target for the missiles to hit
that we end up being exposed too much and get taken out far faster than any other system in the game ( I know some
are going to say that we can hide behind terrain and fire indirect, but we all know how well that ends up working:*)

2: give the IS missile systems what the Clans have now, and give us the full dmg regardless of point blank range we are
supposed to have ( you have effectively tested the dmg limiter with Us Clanners already )

must.resist.low.hanging.fruit....


must...fight...urge...

Okay, I will concede that perhaps this could be considered, but only under full implementation of the ED system.

Reason for this is that ED prevents LRM50, 60, 80, or even LRM100s from being real, viable builds because the amount of face time necessary to fire all 'dem lurms in separate groups, waiting for your energy to recharge.

Right now, you can take an lrm80 clan mech out for a stroll and chainfire them 40 + 40 and heat is pretty manageable.

You'd already be overdrawn on heat with your first LRM40 load in ED so you'd have to seriously consider waiting for your energy to recharge (more face time) before firing the second 40 (incurring another 10pt penalty)...

So for all the arguments about boating in ED, here is where boating would appear to be less appealing.

I'll test when I get back to work on Monday, I don't dork with LRMs much so I'll test to see now that something has changed with them...

Edited by MovinTarget, 17 September 2016 - 06:28 PM.

[dearthcmo]

Energy draw will ruin this game, you have been warned.

[BLOOD WOLF]

dearthcmo, on 17 September 2016 - 09:52 PM, said:

Energy draw will ruin this game, you have been warned.

will hold you to that.

you should jump onto the pts with a larger group. you might have more fun with it than you think.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 17 September 2016 - 09:55 PM.

[Quardak]

Thats the problem:

A lot of People complain and see "the dark end coming" ... and haven*t played a single second on PTS.

I spend some time and i say its a lot better then we have today!

Actually you have FAT-IN-THE-FACE-ALPHAS with Whatever you want. Delivered in a second an often 3-4 times repeated,
5 sec cooldwon and another one goes! THIS ist not Battletech and never WAS. on PTS you also CAN do an Alpha 1 or maybe 2 times (some Like Jenner-O with 4xSRM4 can do it 5x times) but then you are HOT and need 30 seconds to come down.

This ist NOT the End... this is the BEGINNING.

Like the first days of closed BETA with only 4 Mechs available. You have to manage your heat! You have to fire in CHAIN and you could Mix Weapons for different Ranges. A Fight lasts for a minute... not for 15 seconds.

If you cant believe me: Try next Week the "3025-Rule-Set" on Privat. Pick some friends an try around. I had the most fun with the 3025 Tournament the German Community organized once.

- I hope you unterstood my bad english-

[PitchBlackYeti]

Unbelievable, you're actually going to go with 8 dmg longer burn IS LLs? Are you trying to force people into boating MLs until you nerf them to 4 dmg too? Welcome back PPC's everywhere I guess.

[Aramuside]

Arkaiko, on 16 September 2016 - 03:27 PM, said:

if this make IS mechs more equal to clan mechs, welcome.
i hope this work..

edit: faction play is broken for the IS/clan unbalance

You mean group vs solo right?

Fighting as a Marik merc, I just got my 10 of each KMDD in just 10 rounds mainly using single panel AC's or quirked LPL chassis. Took me just what 5 hrs total or less as queues were so short. Never saw more than a 4 man on the clan side which helped hugely.

Not enough to tempt me back until the next event after the horrors of the CJF queues which were 26+min waits just to find an opponent and then 10 for the match... only to find yourself fighting a clan 12 man.....

AS CJF took me from Sunday afternoon to Friday morning as a comparison for the Invasion and clan KMDD kills (less the ones I already got on saturday in scout mode)....

I did find I liked scout mode though but that's mainly as very different to the 12 man solo queue.

Edited by Aramuside, 18 September 2016 - 03:03 AM.

[Aramuside]

MovinTarget, on 17 September 2016 - 06:21 PM, said:

must.resist.low.hanging.fruit....


must...fight...urge...

Okay, I will concede that perhaps this could be considered, but only under full implementation of the ED system.

Reason for this is that ED prevents LRM50, 60, 80, or even LRM100s from being real, viable builds because the amount of face time necessary to fire all 'dem lurms in separate groups, waiting for your energy to recharge.

Right now, you can take an lrm80 clan mech out for a stroll and chainfire them 40 + 40 and heat is pretty manageable.

You'd already be overdrawn on heat with your first LRM40 load in ED so you'd have to seriously consider waiting for your energy to recharge (more face time) before firing the second 40 (incurring another 10pt penalty)...

So for all the arguments about boating in ED, here is where boating would appear to be less appealing.

I'll test when I get back to work on Monday, I don't dork with LRMs much so I'll test to see now that something has changed with them...

Is that a bad thing though? With half weight launchers there has to be limits in place. Irony is more that SRM 24 is untouched.

[LordLosh]

One good thing I noticed is time to kill will go up for sure. If you chain fire and do 3 weapon groups you won't even notice a difference really

[MovinTarget]

Aramuside, on 18 September 2016 - 03:05 AM, said:

Is that a bad thing though? With half weight launchers there has to be limits in place. Irony is more that SRM 24 is untouched.

SRM24 = 48 damage = 18 over the cap. You could fire and SRM14 with no penalty...

[Wintersdark]

MovinTarget, on 18 September 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

SRM24 = 48 damage = 18 over the cap. You could fire and SRM14 with no penalty...

Incorrect.

SRM's fire at 0.75 draw, so you can fire 40 damage (20 tubes) without a penalty.

Thus 3x6 and 4x4 are untouched, and going a bit over is a pretty minimal penalty.

You can run 4x6 for 36 draw, which is 6 points over for a penalty of (in the current PTS) 1.4*6 heat = 8.4 heat.

[MovinTarget]

I knew there was going to be a modifier, but I was away from my computer so I couldn't check, which is why I made it about damage, since I don't think its possible to generate 48 damage w/ any combination of weapons in a single volley without generating a penalty.

[Sereglach]

Technically, one thing to remember is that pretty much all weapons on test fire about 15% slower vs. live than the PTS counterpart changes taken alone.

Thusly, that 2.93 per second cooling is more the equivalent of ~3.34 (2.93 * 1.15) cooling when comparing directly to live numbers, because of increased -forced due to weapon cycling- time to cool between shots. In that regard, it's actually a slight buff vs. live numbers.

Just throwing that info out there, because of the fact that the cooling numbers won't need to be buffed quite as hard as you're advocating for under current PTS weapon cyclic rates.

EDIT: Cleaned up wording, for clarity.

Edited by Sereglach, 18 September 2016 - 12:44 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Sereglach, on 18 September 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

Technically, one thing to remember is that pretty much all weapons on test fire about 15% slower than the PTS counterpart changes.

Thusly, that 2.93 per second cooling is more the equivalent of ~3.34 (2.93 * 1.15) cooling when comparing directly to live numbers, because of increased -forced due to weapon cycling- time to cool between shots. In that regard, it's actually a slight buff vs. live numbers.

Just throwing that info out there, because of the fact that the cooling numbers won't need to be buffed quite as hard as you're advocating for under current PTS weapon cyclic rates.

I've been doing a lot of testing on PTS5, although only in the testing grounds, and I've found the dissipation rates (given reduced generation and smaller alphas) tend to work out pretty well.

A 9 ML Hunchback 4P, for example, didn't feel like a "hot" build at all, even though it had no heat reduction quirks. Obviously not alpha striking all 9, but firing 6/3 as I would on live.

And yeah, in normal play I'd tend towards other builds, but I specifically ran 9 ML to see how it felt with the heat system and lack of quirks.

[Tordin]

Quardak, on 17 September 2016 - 10:37 PM, said:

Thats the problem:

A lot of People complain and see "the dark end coming" ... and haven*t played a single second on PTS.

I spend some time and i say its a lot better then we have today!

Actually you have FAT-IN-THE-FACE-ALPHAS with Whatever you want. Delivered in a second an often 3-4 times repeated,
5 sec cooldwon and another one goes! THIS ist not Battletech and never WAS. on PTS you also CAN do an Alpha 1 or maybe 2 times (some Like Jenner-O with 4xSRM4 can do it 5x times) but then you are HOT and need 30 seconds to come down.

This ist NOT the End... this is the BEGINNING.

Like the first days of closed BETA with only 4 Mechs available. You have to manage your heat! You have to fire in CHAIN and you could Mix Weapons for different Ranges. A Fight lasts for a minute... not for 15 seconds.

If you cant believe me: Try next Week the "3025-Rule-Set" on Privat. Pick some friends an try around. I had the most fun with the 3025 Tournament the German Community organized once.

- I hope you unterstood my bad english-

Yeah. I have tested and found it better that the trainwreck Ghost Heat we have now. Its so freaking odd that before and maybe still, there are players that cant stand ghost heat, but now, NOW they have found a new scapegoat which are power draw.
By no powers on earth must PGI be allowed to experiment to find something that works for the better! Some bigots forgot that mwo are one of those games thats always in development/ experiment stage.
Sure neither GH or PW might be the systems that should do mech combat justice for immersion and balance, but they gotta try.

I fear the doomsayers, ultracomps and even saltyvets will make sure that PD will NOT come to pass, just to avoid getting their ego hammered down if that comes to pass and PD will work with the intent to break the alpha strike l33t warrior mentality that festers around here.
Alpha strike should be limited and only be used as last resort, at least not as often as ghost heat allows.
I feel the PD are kinder to mixed builds now, which Im happy with, though still needs tweaking.
Cant stand another PTS go bonkers down because of one singlular fault that could be corrected, like with the laser lock on from the role warfare thing PGI had going on for a while back. PGI got scared of death threatening l33t players fearing their comfort zone would be crushed, so they scrapped even the awesome stuff they had going for.

I hope PD will give a real kick to the gronads of you naysayers! Lets see how it all will turn once PD hopefully go fully live. I mean, you could always whine, beg and threat PGI to give us Ghost heat back, now wont you?