24 replies to this topic

[darqsyde]

With the upcoming Stock Mech Mode I figure we should start a discussion of which mechs will/are going to be desireable for use in SMM.

A quick glance at the IS mechs suggests that the Grasshopper will be the heavy chassis of choice. Decent armor, speed, JJ, heat, and minimal ammo dependence make it an excellent choice.

The Crab(particularly the 27's) will be excellent, as will most Enforcers, Vindicators and Cicadas.

The Awesome will also be pretty effective with its high armor. Some of the LRM variants are under ammo'd but with decent back up weapons it may (finally) earn it's name.

The Atlas will likely retain it's pride of place as the premiere IS Assault, having a decent combination of weapons, ammo, armor.

Many of the more specialist mechs are going to feel the boot of stock mode though. The Blackjack, Rifleman, and Jaegermech are all woefully under armored, have limited ammo and suffer from heat issues.

There are some mixed bag mechs as well. The Locust retains most of it's speed, has decent heat and firepower, but is (even more so) wrapped in tinfoil. The Commando is in a similar spot. The Firestarter may become a game changer with it's Flamers(heat will be a major concern in SMM).

Among other mechs, it comes down to individual variants that are strong. The Raven 3L and Griffin 2N will basically retain there roles. The Centurion AL and D will be decent mainline mechs. The Cyclops will be a powerful boost to LRM carriers.

That's enough of my opinions. Let's hear yours.

[Sergey Kosinskiy]

Commando is actually pretty good, not great, but i had my fun with it.

[invernomuto]

Archers have almost full armor. I'd like to try them in stock matches.

[darqsyde]

invernomuto, on 18 September 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

Archers have almost full armor. I'd like to try them in stock matches.

Archer 2R is a heat management nightmare, but it does have some serious punch and staying power. The 5S and 5W are decent though.

[UltraMek]

This is gleaned from my previous Stock mech monday experience. We mostly played tech 1 which meant no variants with gauss, pulses, streaks, LBX, UAC, ECM endo, ferro, or artemis. An overall note, As opposed to the normal MWO environment, we found that medium mechs found the most favor. There are just way more useful, fun mechs, and the heat was usually nicer since stock mechs don't tend to hold a lot of heat sinks. Another thing about stock is that since so many mechs are "well rounded" there is less focus on range bracketed builds.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Awesome-8Q and Catapult K2 make great snipers with those PPCs, but you have to relearn the meaning of heat discipline to tame these beasts. The BNC-3M is also a PPC/laser boat assault that could see action, but it came out after we stopped doing matches. Griffin 1Ns are fun PPC harassers with JJs, as are Vindicators.

The CN9-D and CN9-AH are indeed excellent line mechs, with the D fulfilling the role a bit better due to being a bit less ammo capped, but trading away the awesome firepower of an AC20 on the AH. AC20s are the show stopper of the Tech 1 universe. With armor values so low, you can rip open a torso or a disable a limb with a single well placed shot. I think lights die from a single shot in the back with one. This makes a Hunchback-4G another fearsome foe, since it couples an AC20 with enough lasers (2 med 1 sml) to keep fighting after it runs out of ammo. Enforcer 4P and 4Rs are good line mechs too, running similarly to centaurians, but with JJs. Wolverine-Q and 6K make reasonable line mechs.

Hunchback 4SPs make great brawlers, and they have good firepower once they run out of ammo.

On the heavy line mech side, for those with patience and cunning, the ammo-free laser firepower of the black knights might work, but they will be one spicy meatball to handle. Something easier to handle might be the Grasshopper-5H or 5N. I think people would run a couple of the Orions as well since they are well rounded.

The AS7-D is the go to atlas build, it covers all ranges well, and has good armor. The Highlander 733C is a similar build, but has jumpjets at the cost of a bit of ammo. The King Crab has dual AC20s, which is about as scary a thing as you can see, but very limited ammo.

Most of the lights are pretty similar, falling into two groups: either they are quite fast and thin but have very little weapons (like the Spider 5V with 2 Med lasers and 130 kph) or they have weaponry comparable to some mediums but are very shootable in shape and speed (Jenner-D 4 med laser SRM4, 118 kph). The one exception might be some of the wolfhounds. They move at 97 kph but have great agility and geometry, and pack a ton of firepower for a light, and its all energy.

[Omniseed]

On the one hand, I am thrilled about stock mode, especially since I have a good number of 'mechs, and I love IS 'mechs.

On the other, I'm terrified of the amount of time I'm about to sink into relearning all the stock layouts.

[CheeseThief]

The Dragon 1N isn't a bad design. 80kmph, decent ammo bins, actually remembered to bring armour to the fight.

Cataphract 1X is a walking wall of pain that doesn't need much improvement.

Zeus 6T has a decent loadout if a little light on the LRM ammo. PCC's and lasers with the heatsinks to use them.


The Vindicators, Centurions, Enforcers and Blackjacks all have good variants, but 64kmph. Eww.


If we throw some of the post helm variants, the GRF-3M, BJ-3, CRB-27B, ZEU-9S, among others are pretty much just competent upgrades of already good 3025 models.

[Barantor]

CheeseThief, on 18 September 2016 - 05:28 PM, said:

The Dragon 1N isn't a bad design. 80kmph, decent ammo bins, actually remembered to bring armour to the fight.

Cataphract 1X is a walking wall of pain that doesn't need much improvement.

Zeus 6T has a decent loadout if a little light on the LRM ammo. PCC's and lasers with the heatsinks to use them.


The Vindicators, Centurions, Enforcers and Blackjacks all have good variants, but 64kmph. Eww.


If we throw some of the post helm variants, the GRF-3M, BJ-3, CRB-27B, ZEU-9S, among others are pretty much just competent upgrades of already good 3025 models.

Yeah I remember a few folks bringing dragons when we played before all this, they were like beefier Centurions and did a good job.

Saw a lot of Atlas, Awesomes and Hunchbacks, they all carry a good amount of firepower to armor ratio. The only problem with the 4G is running out of ammo, but if you wait until you close you get all the damage on your hits.

Shadowhawks were ok since they were multi-range, as were the Orions.

The Archer I am eager to see in these matches as they do have a ton of armor, but it will be interesting to see how much heat plays with them, though they won't likely be Alpha striking with those LRMs. The LRM ammo might be a consideration with them as well.

I had fun with the CDA-3C, it only really has the PPC to use against mechs, but with it's speed it is a great sniper mech that never really overheats. Paired with an Awesome this can be a fairly brutal barrage of fire and the CDA can get in and out of combat with it's speed.

It will be interesting to see how folks play with the Wolverine as well, with it's low ammo count but high armor and decent speed.

The Marauders could be something to be feared as well, since they are fairly good at long range, but again the low ammo count might not make it as fun with the ballistics.

Unfortunately with the player event it will be limited to tech 1 mostly, so the Mauler won't see most matches unless they move up to tech 2.

I'm sure we will see some stock Warhammers and folks getting used to their heat as well.

Should be fun, it will be the thing that brings me back to the game for a bit at least.

[Hoffenstein]

The Quickdraw makes for a great breakthrough Mech. Use those LRM's until you see where the op team is heading then make a break to head them off

[UltraMek]

Barantor, on 19 September 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

Unfortunately with the player event it will be limited to tech 1 mostly, so the Mauler won't see most matches unless they move up to tech 2.

I'm helping run that event, I'm sure we will do tech 2 as well, but to start off I want to follow the formula we used in stock mech mondays, which was mostly tech 1. It really changed the pace of the game to something extremely deliberate and interesting in my opinion. As a full blooded clanner, I don't want to keep my SCR and TBRs in the garage either, so I'm sure we will do Clan vs IS too, but it will require considerable testing to find the balance point in mechs and tonnage of Clan vs IS.

Something like a SCR-Prime can likely fight off something like two Dragon 1Ns at the same time, and even 1v1 IS assault mechs. The amount of firepower paired with the heatsinks to keep fighting, on some stock clan builds is crazy compared to IS stock (SCR-B and C, TBR-S, EBJ-D, KDK-3 has TWO LBX 20s, EXE-D). I mentioned it in the other thread, but we found that 5v8 +200 IS tons of 8v12 +300 IS tons was roughly the balance point about a year ago.

P.S. Don't count out centaurians, they were my go to mech on SMM. Either the all around fighter in the CN9-D (great ammo, armor, all ranges nicely covered, AC10 shines in stock where things move slower) or the AH with its big scary AC20 boomstick for only 50 tons of drop weight, and the arm is easier to shield than the hunch on the HBK-G. The HBK-G also stupidly puts the ac20 ammo in the left torso, so either torso being shot off ruins the mech.

Edited by UltraMek, 19 September 2016 - 02:29 PM.

[Black Lanner]

UltraMek, on 19 September 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

I'm helping run that event, I'm sure we will do tech 2 as well, but to start off I want to follow the formula we used in stock mech mondays, which was mostly tech 1. It really changed the pace of the game to something extremely deliberate and interesting in my opinion. As a full blooded clanner, I don't want to keep my SCR and TBRs in the garage either, so I'm sure we will do Clan vs IS too, but it will require considerable testing to find the balance point in mechs and tonnage of Clan vs IS.

Something like a SCR-Prime can likely fight off something like two Dragon 1Ns at the same time, and even 1v1 IS assault mechs. The amount of firepower paired with the heatsinks to keep fighting, on some stock clan builds is crazy compared to IS stock (SCR-B and C, TBR-S, EBJ-D, KDK-3 has TWO LBX 20s, EXE-D). I mentioned it in the other thread, but we found that 5v8 +200 IS tons of 8v12 +300 IS tons was roughly the balance point about a year ago.

P.S. Don't count out centaurians, they were my go to mech on SMM. Either the all around fighter in the CN9-D (great ammo, armor, all ranges nicely covered, AC10 shines in stock where things move slower) or the AH with its big scary AC20 boomstick for only 50 tons of drop weight, and the arm is easier to shield than the hunch on the HBK-G. The HBK-G also stupidly puts the ac20 ammo in the left torso, so either torso being shot off ruins the mech.

In the lore, the Clans would use Batchalls before their attacks to find out what units the opposition has. From there the commanders of the attacking forces would bid against each other for the Honor of leading the attack. The Cutdown line is generally held to be 50% of the defending force. So a simple example is if there is a Binary (10) of 100 ton assault 'Mechs as a garrison then the Cutdown for the attacking force would be either five 100 ton 'Mechs or ten 50 ton 'Mechs. Part of this reasoning is that the Clans use less capable warriors in second-line 'Mechs for garrison duty. A commander that could force his rival to bid below the cut down is considered to be savvy. If the attack is going poorly, the commander can call units up to the equivalent of previous bid at a minor loss of honor. A commander that can take the objective with a force below the Cutdown gains quite a bit of honor.

In the end, this gave the game designers an excuse to add seriously improved weapons and equipment to the game, without the invaders completely overrunning everything. Simply because their Honor is their Achilles’ Heel, the simple and straight forward approach to warfare allowed the Inner Sphere factions to gain an upper hand through the use of guile.

[Erox]

I'll try todo a 3025 Stock Mech list here:

Lights:
Commando:	COM-1B	COM-1D	COM-2D	COM-3A
Firestarter:	FS9-A	FS9-H	FS9-K
Jenner:	JR7-D	JR7-F
Locust:	LCT-1E	LCT-1M	LCT-1V
Panther:	PNT-8Z	PNT-9R
Raven:	RVN-2X	RVN-4X
Spider:	SDR-5D	SDR-5K	SDR-5V
Urbanmech:	UM-R60	UM-R60L
Wolfhound:	WLF-1	WLF-1A	WLF-1B
Mediums:
Assassin:	ASN-21	ASN-101
Blackjack:	BJ-1	BJ-1DC	BJ-1X
Centurion:	CN9-A	CN9-AH	CN9-AL	YEN-LO-WANG
Cicada:	CDA-2A	CDA-2B	CDA-3C
Crab:	CRB-20
Enforcer:	ENF-4R
Griffin:	SPARKY	GRF-1N	GRF-1S
Hunchback:	HBK-4G	HBK-4H	HBK-4J	HBK-4P	HBK-4SP
Kintaro:	KTO-18
PhoenixHawk:	PXH-1	PXH-1K
ShadowHawk:	SHD-2D	SHD-2H	SHD-2K
Trebuchet:	TBT-5J	TBT-5N	TBT-7K
Vindicator:	VND-1AA	VND-1R	VND-1X	ST. IVES' BLUES
Wolverine:	WVR-6K	WVR-6R
Heavys:
Archer:	ARC-2R
BlackKnight:	BL-7-KNT	BL-7-KNT-L
Cataphract:	CTF-1X	CTF-2X	CTF-4X
Catapult:	CPLT-A1	BUTTERBEE	CPLT-C1	CPLT-C4	CPLT-K2
Dragon:	DRG-1C	DRG-1N
Grasshopper:	GHR-5H	GHR-5N
Jagermech:	JM6-A	JM6-S
Marauder:	MAD-3R
Orion:	ON1-K	ON1-V	ON1-VA
Quickdraw:	QKD-4G	QKD-4H
Rifleman:	RFL-3C	RFL-3N
Thunderbolt:	TDR-5S	TDR-5SS	TOP DOG
Warhammer:	WHM-6D	WHM-6R
Assaults:
Annihilator:	ANH-1A	ANH-1E
Atlas:	AS7-D	AS7-RS
Awesome:	AWS-8Q	AWS-8R	AWS-8T	AWS-8V
Banshee:	BNC-3E	BNC-3M	BNC-3S
Battlemaster:	BLR-1D	BLR-1G	BLR-1S
Cyclops:	CP-10-Q	CP-10-Z
Highlander:	HGN-733	HGN-733C	HGN-733P
KindCrab:	KGC-0000
Mauler:	MAL-MX90
Stalker:	STK-3F	STK-3H	STK-4N
Victor:	VTR-9B	VTR-9S
Zeus:	ZEU-6S	ZEU-6T

I'm done. Please tell me, if there are any errors.

Edited by Erox, 16 March 2017 - 12:13 PM.

[ice trey]

Gather around, children...





Support the BattleTech licence. Keep it alive.

[Aeolus Drift]

the Orion is actually pretty terrifying in stock mech mode. stocky, beefy, and with plenty of punch for every range, there are few things short of an atlas that beat the Orion for just raw versatility. griffin's are kind of hit and miss though, sometimes if you can control the distance they are wonderful, but other times they will make you want to shoot yourself especially when there are light mechs involved. Black Knights and grasshoppers will basically let you outlast the competition while keeping relatively reliable firepower. if your piloting a centurion or a enforcer, treat them like second line escort mechs, they are there to keep your buddies alive.

[Hoffenstein]

ice trey, on 20 September 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Gather around, children...





Support the BattleTech licence. Keep it alive.

Don't forget the 3025 book!

[ice trey]

Hoffenstein, on 20 September 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

Don't forget the 3025 book!

3039 supersedes TROs 3025 and 3026.
Both are too old to support the franchise, and since TRO 3039 covers everything but the unseen artwork (the stats and lore is there) and the old TRO 3026 Mechwarrior 1st edition character equipment section, you might as well get it all in one big book.
By getting TRO 3025, you're collecting BattleTech history - which is totally in my realm of interest, but buying second hand goods doesn't support the people making the product. If anything, it supports people who are abandoning the game. It's no more supporting Catalyst Game Labs than browsing Sarna.net is.

That's why I neglected 3025. Same with TRO 2750.

Edited by ice trey, 20 September 2016 - 11:57 PM.

[Felix von Buelow]

A little bit offtopic, but is there a group I can join to play stock mode with? I am very interested but I do not have enough friends to start private matches...
Thanks in advance!

[UltraMek]

@ghostnemesys, come to stock mech Monday tonight at 930 EST. comms are ts.clanjadefalcon.com

[MadHornet]

A lot of 'mechs you might not see are the mediums with a 64.8 kph speed, like the centurion and hunchback. Out of those 'mechs, you'll most likely see the Cent AL and D, as well as Hunch 4G and 4P respectively (the 4P's stock heat efficiency is not that bad surprisingly).

If anything, I'll look forward to piloting a Kintaro. Has plenty of close range firepower and has adequate long range capability, with the armor to survive.

[Steelcry6]

so does the game mode revert champion mechs or do those stay the same, as they are their own mech?