8 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

First, some definitions, what are independent weapon pods?

Those would be any weapon pods sticking out of a mech's body that tend not be totally linked except for feeders. Example: high mount of EBJ, ears of Madcat, SRM launchers of Dire Wolf, etc etc. Now, for Catapult (as one example), unfortunately, the launchers are consider the arms, so they are not independent weapon pods.

What is external armor plating? These are the specific shells design as independent armor plating. Of course, I have no actual evidence that this is a thing in the lore, but I just take it from a logical sense that... if you put a 10 tons sheet of metal and put it over an M-1 Abram, that 10 tons sheet of meta would be considered "external armor plating." With that said, the M-1 tank still has all the reactive armor plating underneath, so they are independent from one another. Examples that seem to fit that descriptions are Dire Wolf, Adder, and Warhawk.

Now, no designers would purposely sabotage their design with wider profile unless it can provide benefits. (as logic would dictate) Thus, it makes sense that we treat external weapon pods and armor plating as their design intention, instead of system profile.

What I am getting at, is that, maybe... they should be able to be shot off independently without damaging main armor. For the example of external weapon pods, let's say you shoot at the machine gun turrets of an M-1 repeatedly, the tank doesn't just magically die. The tank is still operational, albeit minus 1 machine gun turret. So when you shoot at the ears of Madcat, shouldn't the weapon pods just fall off without actually damaging side armor?

With regard to shells, again, no designers would increase the size of your profile for the same protection value as other mechs, so it only makes sense that these "turtle shells" are put there as disposable metal sheets. (Also consider the shoulder pad of Black Knights and Awesome, for example) If they are shot off, you should still have the actual armors to protect you from incoming fire.

Thus, with my wall of text, I am wondering if in some future iteration of the game, these components are considered independent. Now, balance... would this affect balance? Absolutely. But not always in making things unfavorable.

For example, a Dire Wolf can no longer just strip all armors and go Dire-star. The turtle shell will always weigh constant as you can't just scrap armors off to make it thinner. So maybe the protection value of Dire Wolf has gone up, but at the same time, the free tonnage goes down.

Same thing with EBJ and Madcat. While having weapons shot-off no longer endangers survivability, having weapon pods shot-off becomes an immediate way to disarm someone (as weapon pods will have much MUCH lower health value than armor components)

So while the high mounts can off you danger free poking, they will return great risk in having you disarmed within the first engagement of the game.

Also, I see this as a buff to some IS mechs, as per art design, most of them have built in shoulder pads. Losing those shoulder pads (much bigger target) no longer means losing an arm. And they will protect your head/body a lot more efficiently.

So, how about it? Independent weapon pods/armor plating, good idea or the best idea ever?

(Actually, I should add... this system is not new, it's implemented on a limited basis in MW4. Which is actually one of the good point about that game.)

[RestosIII]

I've been wanting the ears on mechs to be their own health entities for a long time now. Ebon Jaguars, Summoners, Mad Cats, Archers (bay doors), maybe Hellbringers (Debatable on this one, the missile pods aren't very far off the ST), Thunderbolts, Warhammers, Banshees, Battlemasters, and Dire Wolves all have external missile pods that really aren't part of the ST at all and should have their own health pool, instead of being able to rip the entire side of your mech off from shooting the very top of a mickey mouse ear.

[Mystere]

You're at least 4 years late.

[Davegt27]

reactive armor that was loadable would be cool

of course it would have to be worth it

for example give twice the armor strength per weight

[razenWing]

Mystere, on 18 September 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

You're at least 4 years late.

Started 8 months ago.

[kapusta11]

There's modular armor that weight 1 ton and occupies 1 slot for 10 (that would be 20 in MWO) additional points of armor in whatever location you put it in. It had some piloting penalties which in MWO environment could be replaced with accel/decel/torso twist rate debuffs.

[DrxAbstract]

I actually like the idea of Modular Armor as it would add some viability to some Mechs, but on the other side of that is it would make already strong Mechs even stronger by allowing them to shore up their weakpoints. There would also have to be an additional limitation placed on them other than Tonnage/Slot usage, such as a maximum allowable both per section and overall... Because god help us if a Locust had 20 more armor on both legs and the CT (Yes, it's possible).

[razenWing]

DrxAbstract, on 19 September 2016 - 04:08 AM, said:

I actually like the idea of Modular Armor as it would add some viability to some Mechs, but on the other side of that is it would make already strong Mechs even stronger by allowing them to shore up their weakpoints. There would also have to be an additional limitation placed on them other than Tonnage/Slot usage, such as a maximum allowable both per section and overall... Because god help us if a Locust had 20 more armor on both legs and the CT (Yes, it's possible).

Well, I don't mean giving modular armor to everyone. Just modify existing mechs that seem to have modular armors, and make those armors actually modular. As I pointed out, the turtle shells from Dire Wolf, Adder, and Warhawk are fairly obvious that they are just sheets of metal piled on over the main body. To a lesser extent, shoulder pads of Black Knights, Awesome, and etc, should also be considered modular.

So the way they work, is that they have a constant protection value. (For example, 10 armor for the shoulder pads) That value cannot be decreased or increased. (so you are always stuck with... however many 10 armor is equivalent to tonnage) Now, you can compensate for the weight by reducing the armor you carry on the component (making the same total protection value shoulder pad + arm as the old arm) OR you can add armor values all the way up to how much the original component would carry, at the cost of more free tonnage of course

Basically, you can set your mech to be exactly how it is RIGHT NOW. OR you can setup your mech to have MORE protection (increasing the variety) at the cost of offensive capabilities.

Would Dire Wolf be a defensive monster? Sure, but at the reduction of offensive potentials. So Clans get a pusher like the Atlas, with unchangeable engine and no quirk support. It adds to the variety of gameplay without compromising existing positions of mechs like the Atlas, thus, still balanced gameplay/mechs.

(Again, I have no actual lore evidence for support, but just from logic, if you see a Dire Wolf IRL vs Atlas IRL, which would you think be able to tank more damage? The one with an obvious turtle shell right? PGI, let's make this happen!)

[Lostdragon]

The problem is you wind up giving mechs that have these pods bonus armor and structure that others don't get or you make them sacrifice armor and structure from somewhere else in order to have it for these parts and thus make them weaker overall compared to other mechs of the same tonnage. Neither is a good scenario and in both cases you wind up with more hitboxes you have to track and more calculations for HSR.