22 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Which would it be.

Me?

BEAM DURATION.

Not only does it not make sense, but it's one of the worst abused quirks, currently. Grasshoppers, Battlemasters and Locusts are running around with ultralight Beamers, with near PPFLD effectiveness (If you feel that is an exaggeration, look up what the average human relfex time is)....often made even worse by ridiculous cooldowns or heat generation quirk coupling.

But it's the Beam Duration itself that makes so many of these Gundams "WTF".

Mind you, some weapons, need to have their duration adjusted as a whole still (Clan ERLLs, for instance), but IMO< that would be the single most "BaF" Quirk.

You?

(and yes, I fully expect certain meta luminaries to come in screaming profanities about me touching their metaboats in a bad spot)

[Pariah Devalis]

I am going to agree with you... and disagree with you. Beam duration quirks, in a vacuum, are a bad idea for the reasons you've stated. However, it didn't need to be this way. PGI has/had/whatever the opportunity to allow meaningful choice. Let's take a stroll down imaginary lane:

What if the skill tree nodes we will be getting each had a pro and a con? What if selecting a beam duration quirk came tied, hand in hand, with a heat generation penalty? After all, you are discharging the energy in a shorter space of time. If you wanted to neutralize that penalty, you take the heat generation quirk, but that, in turn, could have a range penalty. If you invested enough quirks to neutralize most of the penalties, you'd be short on points to spend on those nodes, meaning you would need to pick your poison for the advantage you wanted.

How nice would that be?

[Y E O N N E]

Which Locust is running around with beam duration quirks? There's 5% on the 3M and that's it...and they might as well remove that one, too, since nobody is going to notice a 0.045s reduction in burn duration. I sure don't.

That said, I do agree that beam duration is a horrid quirk. I will caveat that by saying that I think some of the lasers in question still burn for too long, though, namely the MedLas and both ER Larges.

[Widowmaker1981]

Im going to disagree, but thats mainly because im excited about the idea of maybe actually being able to use C-ERLLs without stabbing myself in the face.

Tbh duration quirks do very little for the IS Pulse mechs you refer to, the gain is minimal and the duration is already so short its nearly PPFLD with no bonuses.

edit: I dont hate any quirks or bonuses.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 21 February 2017 - 09:59 AM.

[kapusta11]

Battlemasters lost their duration quirks shortly after Kodiak release, what are you taliking about?

[Roughneck45]

Seismic and Radar derp.

I don't dislike them, I dislike that they are SO much better than everything else that they are mandatory.

If both were gone I wouldn't mind.

Edited by Roughneck45, 21 February 2017 - 11:55 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

kapusta11, on 21 February 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

Battlemasters lost their duration quirks shortly after Kodiak release, what are you taliking about?

they were still an example of them being broken that are well known, and why duration quirks are stupid.

I'm sorry... if something is not currently being used, it can't be used as an example of a bad idea.... sorry but the 3 ERPPC THunderbolt is still a great posterchild for bad heat gen overquirking. I suppose I phrased the OP poorly, as some of those examples are indeed not currently running around the game,

Crap happens, I'll live, so will you. Now, do you actually have anything TOPICAL to add, or are you just here to be critical? (the latter, I'll assume)

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 February 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

Which Locust is running around with beam duration quirks? There's 5% on the 3M and that's it...and they might as well remove that one, too, since nobody is going to notice a 0.045s reduction in burn duration. I sure don't.

That said, I do agree that beam duration is a horrid quirk. I will caveat that by saying that I think some of the lasers in question still burn for too long, though, namely the MedLas and both ER Larges.

The LVT-1V for a while had -50% Beam duration, but it got axed after a few months.

I abused the living hell out of with LCT-1V too.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I'm going to need to agree on the beam duration. One of the Black Knights had beam duration quirks at like 10 or 15% and it loaded down with the typical LPL/ML combo combined with it's range quirks was brutal. By the time you realized you'd been shot and could twist away you'd already eaten 63 damage...

[Y E O N N E]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 21 February 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

The LVT-1V for a while had -50% Beam duration, but it got axed after a few months.

I abused the living hell out of with LCT-1V too.

I am aware, and the 1E and 1M had 25% for awhile, too, but OP was phrased with current tense.

That said, he already cleared it up. Personally, I think the MedLas needs a global 10% reduction in burn time, and all duration-reducing features need to git gone. Duration is so central to defining the role for the weapon that trying to balance around variable burn is a logistical nightmare. You basically have to make the weapon terrible in stock form so it isn't OP when skilled up.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 February 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

I am aware, and the 1E and 1M had 25% for awhile, too, but OP was phrased with current tense.

That said, he already cleared it up. Personally, I think the MedLas needs a global 10% reduction in burn time, and all duration-reducing features need to git gone. Duration is so central to defining the role for the weapon that trying to balance around variable burn is a logistical nightmare. You basically have to make the weapon terrible in stock form so it isn't OP when skilled up.

It's almost like they wanted the quirks to center around the stock loadouts, but then they made the quirks generic. And the quirks were %based too, which is even worse...

Like the BLR-1G... it has quirks to make the iML worth using on it. The BLR-2C? Nah bruh.... 5 iLPL all day boi....

[Deathlike]

I don't hate Beam Duration quirks. The greatest issue is how god effing awful ERLL duration is (both Clan and IS).

Until our balance overlord stops futzing around with really garbage global values, I can't agree with that assessment.

[Y E O N N E]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 21 February 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

It's almost like they wanted the quirks to center around the stock loadouts, but then they made the quirks generic. And the quirks were %based too, which is even worse...

Like the BLR-1G... it has quirks to make the iML worth using on it. The BLR-2C? Nah bruh.... 5 iLPL all day boi....

Consider that the ERML is right around the corner as all but a foregone conclusion, too. Suddenly, it no longer majes sense for the BLR-2C to have even those quirks. That means the MedLas needs to be tuned as a better brawl-range support weapon so the ERML can fill in where the quirked ML currently sit as close-mid-range poke weapons.

[Ghogiel]

well laser duration isn't totally and completely WTFBBQ as it was in recent memory where you had IS LPLs burning off at 0.5-0.6 secs. But yeah was definitely broken in places and contributed greatly to the laser meta from a year ago or so.

Edited by Ghogiel, 21 February 2017 - 12:23 PM.

[Arctourus]

The locust 1v still has a 50% cooldown though. Duration is normal, but it sure seems like the duration is less since you can fire so frequently.

To be honest, some of the quirks are a little strange. I personally hate velocity quirks, especially on PPCs. PPCs should be fast period. If you were pretending that mechs were real and that some mechs, when designed specifically for a certain role/weapons system, may be able to fire them at a faster rate or dissipate the heat faster, it makes sense. It doesn't make much sense though for the projectiles to shoot faster tho.

Pick a speed that is good and make it law. Same with duration. Use your quirks for things like cooldown, heat dissipation and maybe ammo capacity.

[Y E O N N E]

IS LPL at 0.5 seconds is industinguishable from 0.67 seconds (their stock value IIRC) in application. IS ML at 0.7 secobds vs. 0.9, however, is a huge deal. As is ERLL at 1.06 vs. 1.25 seconds, though I submit that that particular change was a good one where the ultra short MedLas were not. 0.82 seconds; no less and no more.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 21 February 2017 - 12:28 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Duration quirks and Velocity quirks.

2nd place goes to jam chance, gauss charge-up, and spread quirks.

[nehebkau]

The entire weapon line... all of it .. no + range, no + damage, no -heat etc. etc. A gun is a gun, just because you know how to fire it doesn't mean the bullet goes faster or it somehow maintains it full kinetic energy over a longer distance... you cannot change the laws of physics.

Edited by nehebkau, 21 February 2017 - 12:33 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Most PPC velocity quirks. I say most because imho PPC's should have an across the board velocity boost of at least 30% (maybe even 50%) with minor improvements (10% max) used to provide low number or low hard point mechs a bit of an offset.

[FupDup]

None.

Some quirks might be used on the wrong mech (i.e. ballistic quirks on a Whammer or K2), or used in the wrong quantities (too high or too low). But none of them are bad on their own merits.