10 replies to this topic

[BodakOfSseth]

Brawler for this one.
it's a modified AC/20 build from Metamech

ER/Brawler
Feels a little light on ammo, but I generally dislike having to compensate for ghost heat - thus, breaking up the 4x lasers.

Weapon groups would be:
AC20 + 2x Med las
2x ERLgLas

I guess my main question is about how well the AC 20 would pair with firing the med las - at optimum range, I don't need to lead so much that the las would miss, do I?

The other advantage I see is that in early engagement I can use the ER Lg Las at range, then shield with that side in late engagement at brawling range.

I also dropped the beagle probe, because in theory, I find the ECM umbrella more useful than countering enemy ECM combined with BAP.

Thoughts?

[process]

In general, builds that try to do multiple things tend to suffer in practice. In you case, you have two ER large for ranged engagements, and the AC20 and medium lasers for brawling. Separately, you will be outgunned by dedicated brawlers and snipers, and you don't have enough heatsinks to sustain using both groups at once.

Medium lasers and the AC20 synergize well since they have the same optimal range of 270m. Ghost heat for medium lasers doesn't kick in until the 7th one, so the metamechs build is ghost heat free.

If you want to brawl, the metamechs build is actually very solid, but requires a more conservative playstyle.

[BodakOfSseth]

process, on 27 September 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

In general, builds that try to do multiple things tend to suffer in practice. In you case, you have two ER large for ranged engagements, and the AC20 and medium lasers for brawling. Separately, you will be outgunned by dedicated brawlers and snipers, and you don't have enough heatsinks to sustain using both groups at once.

Medium lasers and the AC20 synergize well since they have the same optimal range of 270m. Ghost heat for medium lasers doesn't kick in until the 7th one, so the metamechs build is ghost heat free.

If you want to brawl, the metamechs build is actually very solid, but requires a more conservative playstyle.

Fair enough - and thank you for the quick input. Aside: I'm actually not really into brawling, but I keep finding myself in those situations, so I clearly need to prep a good brawler, esp. since the Cataphract is so slow.
I'm still a total newb, so there is much to learn.

- Thanks for the correction on the ghost heat issue, I had clearly been confused or suffering poor memory issues.

With that cleared up, My current build on my other Cataphract is a modification of Metamech's CFT-3D UAC/5 Poptart. Mine replaces the PPCs with a new loadout of 2x UAC5+4 MedLas, and I like the combination - even though my MLas don't reach UAC5 range, the UAC5 still hits and does damage at laser range - and that's the kind of concept that I'm going with; I don't need to worry about minimum range weapons, and it gives me a chance to reach out and touch someone at range when I need to.

I have similar cooldown rates on that one, and haven't been having serious issues with heat (but with my misconceptions about ghost heat, I've clearly been playing wrong... Changes will be made. We'll see how it goes).

I guess what I really need to understand is what the heck does the "Cooling Efficiency" mean? I aim to keep my builds above 50%, but I seeplenty of builds out there in the 40% or less range.

[Leone]

So, first off, Metamechs builds are designed for a certain playstyle. For some they work, for other's they really don't. Consider this when looking at those builds and consider your own style. I see you've decided tweaking is nessisary, and I whole heartedly encourage you to do so. Building mechs is half the fun .

As for Cooling Efficiency, well, that's a measure of how cool your mech runs. At fourty percent or less, your playing a poking build, unable to sustain fire, and meant to hide and poke the whole match. If your firing everything. Some builds aren't designed to alpha strike the whole time. Take for instance, this HBK-4J. A quick glance at the cooling efficiency shows you the mech cannot alpha for long, it can barely bleed the heat.

But, remove the lasers, and it shows you can drop missiles nonstop. Remove the missiles, and it's a decently hot poking mech. Flamers also throw the cooling efficiency outta whack. Also, you'll rarely get 100% efficiency unless you bring nothing but ballistics. you just can't bring enough damage if you try running that cool. Most like to aim for the 60% cooling rate, or go for higher rates, but then add some backups for more punch when they need it.

I point you towards the Venerable BNC-3E. Though it looks, at first like a hot pokey mech, a quick removal of the lasers shows that this bruiser can fire those AutoCannons non stop, like some crazy brawling madman. The lasers are just there to give it that edge in combat, and pop off locations that much sooner.

Whelp, go get building, and have fun out there.

~Leone.

[process]

That's a solid mid-range build, good for short bursts of DPS before you need to cool off or allow the UACs to unjam.

Cooling efficiency is simply the ratio of heat dissipation to heat generation. Most people seem to use 30% as a benchmark; too high and you're probably under gunned, too low and you won't be use all of your firepower. SRM and ballistic boats generally can ignore cooling efficiency, since those weapons types don't generate much heat.

Cooling efficiency also matters less for builds that rely on speed, poking and hiding, since they can afford to run away and cool off. A brawler will want a low heat and/or high cooling efficiency loadout, so they can stay engaged and not worry about shutting down in the middle of a fight.

[BodakOfSseth]

Leone, on 27 September 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

So, first off, Metamechs builds are designed for a certain playstyle. For some they work, for other's they really don't. Consider this when looking at those builds and consider your own style. I see you've decided tweaking is nessisary, and I whole heartedly encourage you to do so. Building mechs is half the fun .

...as has been since days of yore.
Yeah, any promoted mech load out will be designed for "a certain playstyle". The trick is what works for you and being aware of your own proclivities.
Myself, I like sniping, but I need practice in this game to get leading distances right and the hiding a bit more. A PiP zoom would be super-handy too, but only for my sniping loadouts.
I think I'm turning out to be good at medium-close range, but that remains to be proven... again with practice.
I enjoy being the speedy spider or locust running around tearing things up and scouting, but I've only had practice in the trial mechs, and you want to talk about a pretty quick death? run around in a locust without ECM. It's almost an exercise in frustration.
I'm not great at brawling, but it's clear I need to get better at it. ATM, it's probably a result of the mech I'm using and my inexperience. The Cataphract I'm using turns like a drunk elephant, torso twists like its grinding gears (and sounds like it), and accelerate/decelerates like a... well, it's just slow, so I get hung up on terrain when I make a foolish turn, and I'm stuck their sorting it out while I get chewed to pieces by enemy fire.

Leone, on 27 September 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

As for Cooling Efficiency, well, that's a measure of how cool your mech runs. At fourty percent or less, your playing a poking build, unable to sustain fire, and meant to hide and poke the whole match. If your firing everything. Some builds aren't designed to alpha strike the whole time. Take for instance, this HBK-4J. A quick glance at the cooling efficiency shows you the mech cannot alpha for long, it can barely bleed the heat.

But, remove the lasers, and it shows you can drop missiles nonstop. Remove the missiles, and it's a decently hot poking mech. Flamers also throw the cooling efficiency outta whack. Also, you'll rarely get 100% efficiency unless you bring nothing but ballistics. you just can't bring enough damage if you try running that cool. Most like to aim for the 60% cooling rate, or go for higher rates, but then add some backups for more punch when they need it.

I point you towards the Venerable BNC-3E. Though it looks, at first like a hot pokey mech, a quick removal of the lasers shows that this bruiser can fire those AutoCannons non stop, like some crazy brawling madman. The lasers are just there to give it that edge in combat, and pop off locations that much sooner.

Suddenly things are MUCH more clear. Thank you!
I'm still going to see if I can find something that clarifies the numeric relationship to generate the cooling efficiency, but what you talk about there is, I think, an excellent way to evaluate my builds. Cheers!

Edited by ScottAleric, 27 September 2016 - 01:25 PM.

[jss78]

I run my CTF-0XP as a slight variation of the MetaMechs build. Engine down to STD-285, one less DHS, but gets BAP and 5 tons ammo for the AC/20 (I'm a little uncomfortable with 3½ tons). The BAP+ECM combo is situational, but it's still nice for the sensor range and quick targetting information.

Got a video of that 'mech, so a shameless plug:

Spoiler

I like taking my 0XP and run sidekick for short-range focused, non-ECM assaults like Atlases. Funny to say "sidekick" with a 70-tonner, but they do well in that role.

[BodakOfSseth]

jss78, on 27 September 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

I run my CTF-0XP as a slight variation of the MetaMechs build. Engine down to STD-285, one less DHS, but gets BAP and 5 tons ammo for the AC/20 (I'm a little uncomfortable with 3½ tons). The BAP+ECM combo is situational, but it's still nice for the sensor range and quick targetting information.

Got a video of that 'mech, so a shameless plug:

I like taking my 0XP and run sidekick for short-range focused, non-ECM assaults like Atlases. Funny to say "sidekick" with a 70-tonner, but they do well in that role.

Nice vid. Thanks for sharing it.
Alright, I'll bite - how did you know the UAVs were up there to target and shoot?

[Spheroid]

If you want a good general build just use 3x LLAS and 1x AC-10. Play medium range body guard and take opportunity shots as your ECM removes you as first target.

Put two lasers in the right arm and use that as your peak side and shield with the left. Use endo obviously, ferro is optional depending on engine. Remove the BAP.

[jss78]

ScottAleric, on 27 September 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

Alright, I'll bite - how did you know the UAVs were up there to target and shoot?

Most of the time I just happen to notice them in the sky. That was the assault 'mech event weekend, and there were LOTS of LRM's, even in high-tier games ... you sort of got systematic about looking for extra lights in the sky, out of necessity.

The one right after 8 minutes i was able to target lock on, I think this requires BAP. I then shot it down with my arm lasers, though it was behind the cockpit frame. You can do this because the range finger, next to your reticle, shows you the range to UAV (instead of infinite) when you're on target.

[BodakOfSseth]

So I went with the advice of Process, Leone and others that suggested keeping for 4 med las instead of 2x med, 2x ER large. Ran into some overheat issues - the build I have lets me fire the 4 lasers 4 times before shutting down

Still, my version slightly modified from the Metamech version.
3 matches played, won 2, 2 kills, 1 death.

Clearly still a noob, but it was pretty fun. A little frustrating that I can't poke at people, but it was pretty brutal on those close-range maps.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I'm looking forward to practicing more with it.