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With Pop Tarting Returning


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#1 C E Dwyer

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 03:18 PM

Or to use it's less street cred name Jump sniping.

One of the reasons that Jump jets were nerfed to the seventh hell and back was because P.G.I considered that 35 damage pin point damage ( single Guass, and twin PPC on a Victor 80 tons) to powerful and mech over 55 tons had to be rendered virtually impossible to jump even with a full set of JJ's.
With the changes to Clan ERPPC a nova which is still a viable Pop tart mech will be about to land a pin point 30 damage at only 50 tons, this is just five point less than what was considered game breaking.

Not only this mech but an executioner with Masc will be able to land a 45 pin point,( with a ED heat penalty as it's currently the only mech over 55 tons that can do practical Jump sniping.

Because of these changes I think it's high time that Mechs of all sizes should be about to Jump once more, and regain some vertical mobility.

#2 Requiemking

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 04:24 PM

View PostCathy, on 28 September 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

Not only this mech but an executioner with Masc will be able to land a 45 pin point,( with a ED heat penalty as it's currently the only mech over 55 tons that can do practical Jump sniping.

Not entirely true. The Summoner has a pretty good jump as well. Also, HELL YES. Its about time they undid one of the many unnecessary nerfs they did that destroyed Poptarting for everything, and unnerfing jump jets is the way to go in my opinion.

#3 Drunk Canuck

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 04:35 PM

The Executioner still plays like ***, and it would be a horrid waste of tonnage for a jump sniper. HBK IIC A with 2 ER PPC's is better than the Nova, the loyalty Summoner will also be better for 2 ER PPC's, but no Clan build is 30 PPFLD due to the splash damage on the ER PPC's, so really, they shouldn't even be treated as such.

#4 Y E O N N E

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Posted 28 September 2016 - 05:53 PM

Night Gyr does a 40 PPFLD pop-tart, with 5 splash, extremely well. It also runs cold. Really cold, if you do it with the dual Gauss and single ER PPC rather than the typical single Gauss and dual ER PPC. It has way more reach than the CTF-3D. It's a pocket Kodiak.

#5 Ultimax

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Posted 29 September 2016 - 09:14 AM

View PostCathy, on 28 September 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

Or to use it's less street cred name Jump sniping.

One of the reasons that Jump jets were nerfed to the seventh hell and back was because P.G.I considered that 35 damage pin point damage ( single Guass, and twin PPC on a Victor 80 tons) to powerful and mech over 55 tons had to be rendered virtually impossible to jump even with a full set of JJ's.
With the changes to Clan ERPPC a nova which is still a viable Pop tart mech will be about to land a pin point 30 damage at only 50 tons, this is just five point less than what was considered game breaking.

Not only this mech but an executioner with Masc will be able to land a 45 pin point,( with a ED heat penalty as it's currently the only mech over 55 tons that can do practical Jump sniping.

Because of these changes I think it's high time that Mechs of all sizes should be about to Jump once more, and regain some vertical mobility.



JJs weren't nerfed because 30 to 35 damage was too much, they were nerfed because jumping & falling to deliver the damage was exceptional in the mitigation of return fire against non-poptarts to the point that those other weapon loadouts couldn't realistically win trades.

On top of that, those builds were MIXED LOADOUTS that built for the advantages of energy (high alpha, high heat, low weight, low DPS) and combined them with the advantages of ballistics/gauss (high weight, high DPS, low heat, low alpha) - which was something (at the time) that lasers simply couldn't do as well due to their method of delivery being so different from ballistics and full laser boating was much hotter.


Now, the water gets muddy here as well because we have never had the strongest JJs for poptarting in the game at the same time as the fully unnerfed old laser meta or the current ballistic fest (we didn't have this many good ballistic boats) - so its hard to tell how well they would trade against poptarts.


Liming alphas to 30 on the other hand is a direct buff to those types of PPFLD/Poptart builds because due to the tonnage investment required that is the realistic upper limit of an alpha for the vast majority of mechs - with only a few being able of going beyond that number (and almost none of them are capable jumpers so their ability to mitigate return fire isn't as good, although their alphas are gigantic).

Edited by Ultimax, 29 September 2016 - 09:17 AM.


#6 Dr Cara Carcass

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 02:15 AM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 28 September 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

Night Gyr does a 40 PPFLD pop-tart, with 5 splash, extremely well. It also runs cold. Really cold, if you do it with the dual Gauss and single ER PPC rather than the typical single Gauss and dual ER PPC. It has way more reach than the CTF-3D. It's a pocket Kodiak.


Try Double Gauss Double ER-PPC - 2 shots Heavy-shoulders while falling to safety.
Typically the 4th shot shuts you down. But thats after you already have done 200 points PPFLD or 240 DMG all together. A coolshot keeps you in game for the 5th or6 th or 300-360 dmg in about time before the game has even started for most players on solo queue. If the team doenst die instantly you will often end up with 800-1k of dmg.
Against good players you are still going to get 400-500 dmg without beeing a hindereance to your team. The question is wether you can focus a mech for several shots or not.

#7 B0oN

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 04:06 AM

Ahem ...
small correction .

C-ERPPC will only deliver 20 points of damage ON POINT .

???
2.5 per side as splash = 5 points of damage NOT ON POINT ( and because of exactly THAT, those 5 points of damage are IRRELEVANT in a PPFLD discussion) .


And ...

YAY FOR POPTARTS !

Edited by B0oN, 11 October 2016 - 04:08 AM.


#8 JC Daxion

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 09:58 AM

did jump jets get some boost that i missed? because i play EXE's all the time, and they are hardly good jumpers..

Nova and shadow cat on the other hand do fairly well, but i suck at jump sniping so i don't really try it.. But i missed any notes on JJ's being changed, did it happen?

#9 Quicksilver Kalasa

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 01:44 PM

View PostCara Carcass, on 11 October 2016 - 02:15 AM, said:


Try Double Gauss Double ER-PPC - 2 shots Heavy-shoulders while falling to safety.
Typically the 4th shot shuts you down. But thats after you already have done 200 points PPFLD or 240 DMG all together. A coolshot keeps you in game for the 5th or6 th or 300-360 dmg in about time before the game has even started for most players on solo queue. If the team doenst die instantly you will often end up with 800-1k of dmg.
Against good players you are still going to get 400-500 dmg without beeing a hindereance to your team. The question is wether you can focus a mech for several shots or not.

That might make sense in solo queue, but not when you aren't expecting to be playing against spuds.

View PostJC Daxion, on 11 October 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:

did jump jets get some boost that i missed? because i play EXE's all the time, and they are hardly good jumpers..

Nova and shadow cat on the other hand do fairly well, but i suck at jump sniping so i don't really try it.. But i missed any notes on JJ's being changed, did it happen?

They got changed a long time ago, but with the nerfing of lasers and some of the dakka boats, PPFLD is the only thing left and JJs work really well with that play style. Really though they came back to counter the PokeBear because that is really its only weakness. They weren't that great during the dakka push meta because they can't keep up the pressure that well and the laser vomit meta was able to do more damage that allowed them to punish PPFLD enough to make them worthwhile.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 11 October 2016 - 01:46 PM.


#10 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 01:03 PM

View PostCara Carcass, on 11 October 2016 - 02:15 AM, said:


Try Double Gauss Double ER-PPC - 2 shots Heavy-shoulders while falling to safety.
Typically the 4th shot shuts you down. But thats after you already have done 200 points PPFLD or 240 DMG all together. A coolshot keeps you in game for the 5th or6 th or 300-360 dmg in about time before the game has even started for most players on solo queue. If the team doenst die instantly you will often end up with 800-1k of dmg.
Against good players you are still going to get 400-500 dmg without beeing a hindereance to your team. The question is wether you can focus a mech for several shots or not.


The Night Gyr can't do this without stripping ~5 or 6 tons of armor.... where are you pulling this information from.

#11 Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 01:08 PM

#MakeVictorsFlyAgain

#12 Y E O N N E

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 05:44 PM

View PostCara Carcass, on 11 October 2016 - 02:15 AM, said:


Try Double Gauss Double ER-PPC - 2 shots Heavy-shoulders while falling to safety.
Typically the 4th shot shuts you down. But thats after you already have done 200 points PPFLD or 240 DMG all together. A coolshot keeps you in game for the 5th or6 th or 300-360 dmg in about time before the game has even started for most players on solo queue. If the team doenst die instantly you will often end up with 800-1k of dmg.
Against good players you are still going to get 400-500 dmg without beeing a hindereance to your team. The question is wether you can focus a mech for several shots or not.


People are already scoring 800+ with the build I outlined above. Yours lacks sustain, and if you don't have sustain a smart enemy team can and will push your position and you'll be powerless to stop it or even ward it off.

Two 40-point hits will side-core any heavy, leaving it ripe for getting polished off by your Light and Medium harassers. Three shots will core any Assault in the game, sides or front, greatly reducing the effectiveness of their firepower as they can no longer expose as frequently to deploy a volley.

#13 Dr Cara Carcass

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 05:57 AM

View PostB0oN, on 11 October 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

Ahem ...
small correction .

C-ERPPC will only deliver 20 points of damage ON POINT .

???
2.5 per side as splash = 5 points of damage NOT ON POINT ( and because of exactly THAT, those 5 points of damage are IRRELEVANT in a PPFLD discussion) .


And ...

YAY FOR POPTARTS !


Read The number again - 200 dmg/4 = 50dmg because ppc does 10 pinpoint

4*60dmg coz of splash is 240dmg total





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