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Wtf Is The Point Of 100 Ton Assault Mechs Anymore


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#21 Znail

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 05:55 AM

View PostReno Blade, on 07 October 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:

What build can push out more than 20dps and not be limited by heat anyways?
Only UAC boats can possibly push hig hdps with low enough heat to even try this, so why do you want more energy regen if you can't use it anyway?

To clarify a bit, dps can be considered not only for the sustained indefinitly but also in short bursts. A fairly common build would be some ballistic or missile weapon and then some energy weapons on the side where you right now would use the energy weapons to boost short term dps when heat alows it. It's easy to make a build that can't fire all the weapons, even if spaced out in 30 pts groups due to lack of energy regen. Note that burst dps is not the same as alpha strikes as it wont automatically hit the same location, wich is the reason why too large alpha strikes cause balance issues.

#22 Reno Blade

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 06:18 AM

I build a Direwolf with UAC20, UAC10, 3x cERLL and a cERPPC as a test-build and its very hot ofc, but ED is hardly the issue with the heat here.


please provide some builds and I will test them out.

#23 Widowmaker1981

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 06:21 AM

Try quad UAC5 + 2xLPL

#24 skumm

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 07:29 AM

View PostNaduk, on 05 October 2016 - 10:16 PM, said:


You are not supposed to carrying 6 massive guns and running around pressing one button all day
That's not the spirit of battle tech



Wow this is so wrong it isnt even right...
Here are a few examples of Battletech mechs boating weapons - right out of the TRO's... There are lots more examples of boating on the tabletop... These were just off the top of my head.

1. Thunder Hawk -

[color=#000000]The [/color]Thunder Hawk[color=#000000] is armed to engage an enemy at standoff ranges when facing any opposition. The weapons that enable the [/color]Thunder Hawk[color=#000000] to achieve this are a trio of Norse-Storm Model 7D [/color]Gauss Rifles[color=#000000] that, when combined, can destroy (or at least disable) most lighter 'Mechs in only a few short salvos. To defend itself if either when an enemy closes to short range or if the Gauss Rifles run out of ammunition, the [/color]Thunder Hawk[color=#000000] has an impressive array of four [/color]Defiance B3M[color=#000000] [/color]Medium Lasers[color=#000000].[/color]

2. Novacat B - Alt. Config. B Alternate Configuration B deviates from the formula of the Primary and Alternate Configurations greatly, as it is a missile boat rather than a sniper, being equipped with six LRM-15s. A pair of ER Medium Lasers provide short-range backup. BV (1.0) = 2,078[2][9]. BV (2.0) = 2,492[10]
3. Bane 3 This design changes the weapons configuration totally. Eight LRM-15 provide fire support, while sixteen tons of ammunition proves sufficient for the design. A One-Shot Streak SRM-4 provides one-time close support. Nineteen double heat sinks are up to the task of keeping the design cool. BV (1.0) = 2,616[2], (2,581)[6], BV (2.0) = 2,941[7] Tomahawk II Alt. Config. C Intended for the fire support role, the C Configuration carries a number of missile batteries and Pulse Laser technologies to play its role, while also providing a means of self-defense. The C Configuration sports six LRM-15 Launchers - one in each arm and two allocated to each side torso. The 'Mech's missile ammunition is found in the arms, with five tons worth of LRM munitions protected by CASE II. Backing up the 'Mech at closer ranges are three Large Pulse Lasers, each mounted in each of the 'Mech's torsos. Six additional Double Heat Sinks are provided to help manage the tremendous heat levels generated. BV(2.0)= 2,938[13][14][15] Turkina B Alt. Config. B Continuing with the paired weapons theme, the B uses two Large Pulse Lasers, ER Large Lasers, Medium Pulse Lasers, and ER Medium Lasers. All of these are linked to an advanced Targeting Computer. Ten extra double heat sinks still struggle to keep heat levels down.[6]The impetus for this variant seems to lie in the Battle of Tukayyid and the ComGuard's strategy of bleeding them of supplies by fighting a protracted campaign. With no weapons that need ammunition, this configuration can stay in the field as long as its MechWarrior can. BV (1.0) = 3,043[6][9], BV (2.0) = 3,420[10] Dasher H Alt Config. H Mounting the new Heavy Laser systems, the Fire Moth H sports a huge array of nine Heavy Small Lasers, which provide devastating levels of short-range firepower. An additionaldouble heat sink is also present, to help compensate for the accordingly huge heat burden. BV (1.0) = 485[2], BV (2.0) = 674[3], 779[15] Nova Prime In its primary configuration the Nova is a devastating close combat 'Mech and battle armor killer that is capable of delivering a powerful barrage with its twelve ER Medium Lasers. To help it use these as effectively as possible, the Nova has added four more double heat sinks bringing the total up to eighteen. Even with the added double heat sinks, the Nova prime is capable of producing almost twice as much heat as it can dissipate.[1][4][5]

#25 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 08:37 AM

Energy Draw should die in a fire.

I know that's a rough thing to say about it, but everyone knows it deserves it.

Seriously, its terrible, can we move on to something more productive now? Iterative weapon balance? Get that done then add new weapons, more game modes, etc? Stop burning cash and time working on this terrible system.

#26 Widowmaker1981

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 09:14 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 07 October 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

Energy Draw should die in a fire.

I know that's a rough thing to say about it, but everyone knows it deserves it.

Seriously, its terrible, can we move on to something more productive now? Iterative weapon balance? Get that done then add new weapons, more game modes, etc? Stop burning cash and time working on this terrible system.


Heres what they should do:

1) Scrap energy draw
2) Reduce all mechs heat capacity by 30 points
3) Re-purpose the energy draw graphics as a 30 point heat scale bar
4) Apply various penalties at various points along that bar (not necessarily RNG ones, ideally not) with shutdown at 30
5) Iterative weapon balance
6) more (better) game modes, more maps
7) ??
8) Profit


bonus points for adding structure buffs to STD structure (more for IS) and making FF increase armour cap (more for IS)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 07 October 2016 - 09:14 AM.


#27 Reno Blade

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 09:53 AM

View PostWidowmaker1981, on 07 October 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

Try quad UAC5 + 2xLPL

Just a quick test with the Direwolf (King Crab has trouble getting the loadout in with the bigger space of IS weapons.




You can see when I fired everything, the heat will be pushed high by ED, but usually there is no issue.

Edited by Reno Blade, 07 October 2016 - 09:53 AM.


#28 Praslek2

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 02:14 PM

View PostWidowmaker1981, on 07 October 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:


Heres what they should do:

1) Scrap energy draw
2) Reduce all mechs heat capacity by 30 points
3) Re-purpose the energy draw graphics as a 30 point heat scale bar
4) Apply various penalties at various points along that bar (not necessarily RNG ones, ideally not) with shutdown at 30
5) Iterative weapon balance
6) more (better) game modes, more maps
7) ??
8) Profit


bonus points for adding structure buffs to STD structure (more for IS) and making FF increase armour cap (more for IS)

^^^ This seems like the best course of action.

ED = Ghost Heat 2.0

Ghost Heat killed a lot of really fun builds.. sure some balancing needed to happen, but Ghost Heat is the wrong answer. Punching your customers in the crotch everytime they shoot a little too much in a game that is a shooter is a terrible idea.

Edited by Praslek2, 07 October 2016 - 02:17 PM.


#29 Graugger

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 11:27 AM

The point of 100 ton assault mechs is so 30 ton anti-infantry mechs have something easy to kill.

#30 Dragoth2594

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 11:44 AM

View PostLeopardo, on 05 October 2016 - 11:44 PM, said:

also may i ask then if not supposed to carry a lot of BigFknGuns why they dont restrict it simply - by giving a SIZE to hardpoints - big for bigger guns - small for smaller ??????? - and now we need a holy crap balance - info war quirks and Ed now....GH....all that hell of work real work of programmers - instead they must just reconsider all mechs on paper - give the hardponits a size and dont need all this all that year !!
so that was all about - to prevent boating and hell of crap alpha????? - oaky reconsider the hardpoints of every mech!!!! and your boats of LPL is gone!!!!!


yea that makes sense, just look at the way you loadout your mechs in MechWarrior 4 Mercenaries. that would be a much better balancing system than just racking up heat penalties to restrict firing more than 2 weapon systems at once. :l

#31 Remover of Obstacles

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 03:56 AM

View PostPraslek2, on 07 October 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

Punching your customers in the crotch everytime...


PGI's greatest hits
3pov
community warfare phase 3
minimap
doritos
long tom
e.d.

#32 Toha Heavy Industries

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 09:26 AM

View PostFupDup, on 06 October 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

You missed the fact that the Cute Fox doesn't even have enough tonnage to equip 3 LPL in the first place.


And you missed the fact that your fact is made up. It has enough tonnage to equip 3 LPL.

#33 Cold Darkness

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 09:34 AM

View PostFupDup, on 06 October 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

You missed the fact that the Cute Fox doesn't even have enough tonnage to equip 3 LPL in the first place.


and you missed the fact that you have enough tonnage for 3 LL, which, while not as heatefficient, is still a VERY heavy armament.

edit: id say the offset of burntime is extrarange, just in case you would try to get that as an argument.

edit2:

View PostToha Heavy Industries, on 10 October 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:


And you missed the fact that your fact is made up. It has enough tonnage to equip 3 LPL.


didnt bother checking, but im pretty sure the tradeoff would be something along the line of not running armor, so: not really Posted Image

Edited by Cold Darkness, 10 October 2016 - 09:38 AM.


#34 Motroid

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:05 AM

View PostRemover of Obstacles, on 10 October 2016 - 03:56 AM, said:


PGI's greatest hits
3pov
community warfare phase 3
minimap
doritos
long tom
e.d.

and still not forgotten:
removing of repair and rearm
removing of knock-downs
consumeables

#35 Toha Heavy Industries

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 11:31 AM

View PostCold Darkness, on 10 October 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

didnt bother checking, but im pretty sure the tradeoff would be something along the line of not running armor, so: not really Posted Image


2 tons worth of armor or so. Armor is only for people who can't trade well anyways. Posted Image

#36 Stone Wall

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 03:26 AM

View PostCalbearpig, on 30 September 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:

The whole point was to get energy to scale with tonnage to some extent, or at least class. (i.e. all assaults get 60, heavies get 50, etc.) I think a 30 alpha universal cap regardless of mech class or tonnage is pretty stupid.


I wonder if people who hate the 30 Alpha cap would rather have Mechs with more armor?

#37 Graugger

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 09:56 AM

View PostStone Wall, on 25 October 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:


I wonder if people who hate the 30 Alpha cap would rather have Mechs with more armor?


Yes and then my Locust could take 4 AC/20s to the CT... with PROPER HSR!





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