25 replies to this topic

[Hunka Junk]

It seems to me that clan stock is superior to IS stock.

Is that just me?

[RestosIII]

Hunka Junk, on 02 October 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

It seems to me that clan stock is superior to IS stock.

Is that just me?

We get double heat sinks stock no matter what. So yes, we are better stock than the IS equivalents on average.

[Bombast]

Hunka Junk, on 02 October 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

It seems to me that clan stock is superior to IS stock.

Is that just me?

Most Inner Sphere configurations are taken from the 3025 era (Tech Level 1 in old table top speak), which didnt have things like XLs, ERs, Pulse Lasers, Endo, and so on.

All Clan configurations are from 3050 (Tech Level 2).

[MauttyKoray]

Hunka Junk, on 01 October 2016 - 04:18 AM, said:

I guess some of them are OK, but the vast majority are horrible.

I bought WHM's during the sale and they came with like half the armor peeled off, one ppc sitting next to a single small laser, then maybe an ac20 with a flamer and enough ammo to fire each weapon for about 30 seconds of combat. Any stock LRM loadout seems to always come with 1, maybe 2 tons of ammo. Why are these things intentionally so crappy?

My theory is that it has something to do with lore: Before the galaxy descended into perma-war, these giant bots were used for commercial/industrial use. The battlemaster was originally for picking apples and the blackjack was a riveter in a car assembly plant. You get the idea. So, when you buy a stock mech, it's like trying to turn a dump truck into an armored assault vehicle. I doubt that's right, but that is how it feels to me.

While we're at it, what is the most useless stock loadout in the game?

I ranted quite a bit...
tl;dr - Stock loadouts are meant to be used in a real world combat situation in which adaptability is many times more useful specialized role outside of pre-planned missions or battlefields with known use for them. (i.e. Urban Mechs used in cities for infantry garrisons due to their size, cheap cost, and high firepower) However in games like MWO, people can freely customize/swap things and instantly/freely repair their mechs with no cost/time so there is never risk in having your mech/equipment destroyed, using up your ammo, having to replace components, or not being able to use the mech for any amount of time. Its all instantly back and there, ready to go again. Plus min/maxers pretty much find the cheapest and easiest way possible to do things with the fewest button presses and the highest output resulting. (or exploiting game mechanics using macros that unrealistically perform functions extremely hard to unrealistically reliable for humans to do such as the rotary ballistics macro on ballistic boats, though I will never shun anyone for using a TAG toggle...that really should be a thing.)

side note: Armor/structure values are also heavily padded, so ammo was worth more with original values. An AC20 round (which mechs didn't carry a lot of) was a MASSIVE shock to a mech's armor/structure. Instead we have to shoot several rounds to get any real effect out of it.

The games also use a number based on mech tonnage to 'cap' the armor, which isn't a thing in real life. A mech didn't have X/Y armor placed on it when manufactured, it has X Tons of armor spread across the mech in a real world layout, with vital areas more heavily protected than others. The balancing factor of a mech wasn't a number restricting your tonnage either, it was the tonnage an engine could reliably move on that mech chassis and the weight a chassis and myomer muscles could support without causing problems.
Mechs would add armor, but at the cost of reducing its weaponry in order to keep this balance maintained, or vice versa.

-Post-

In Battletech, mixed loadouts of various weaponry and ranges were ideal because it allowed a mech to adapt to various situations and everything from light mechs supporting infantry/tanks to Assaults (which were actually fairly rare and only piloted by those of fairly high standing/renown/royalty) were mainly used by important people or for protecting key defensive locations due to their high armor and firepower. Even heavies weren't as common as they are in MWO, and our percentages only reflect the state of the game, as the most common mechs (to my knowledge) went in order of Mediums, Lights, Heavies, and then Assaults in the rarity of our currenty Heavies, Mediums, Assaults, Lights. (I could be wrong on the Mediums/Lights in Battletech).

Another thing is that our game doesn't reflect the real world implications of damage, repair, loadouts, etc. Battlemechs were manufactured for certain roles and the variants would modify or make them useful in others. However it was uncommon for mechs to have their initial loadouts changed like we do in mechlab, often taking several months to do any sort of overhauls to weapon systems or equipment. Armor wasn't just a simple button click, and replacing the chassis with endo-steel on an already built mech? You'd be laughed at by any mechanic and checked to see if you were insane. Sure you could do it, but the amount of time and effort to fully strip the mech and basically build a new one after replacing the chassis would be insane. Often times a mech stayed out of service with a blown off arm for weeks, a month or two, maybe longer, or just went into battle without it if desperately needed.

Also things like single combat, lance versus lance, and rag tag sizes of units were far more common than straight 12v12 combat all the time. Mechs flanking, using tactics/cover/ambushes, etc, happened far more often than the direct face hugging combat we do so often, or the mechball used in so many matches. Things like movement, getting hit, pilot control (remember they used flight sticks and a neurohelmet, not a precision gaming mouse) all affected a pilot's aim as well as the weapons themselves not always being pinpoint accurate like they are in MWO. Which is how we get top speed running mechs firing precision shots, and mechs firing, twisting, then firing again and repeat with no inaccuracy, not even a little.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 02 October 2016 - 07:20 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Hunka Junk, on 02 October 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

It seems to me that clan stock is superior to IS stock.

Is that just me?

RestosIII, on 02 October 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

We get double heat sinks stock no matter what. So yes, we are better stock than the IS equivalents on average.

Indeed. But that is why, even in TT, Clan vs IS matchups had quality over quantity for Clan, and Quantity over Quality for IS. You'd be looking at one star of 5 mechs vs two to three lances of IS mechs. In MWO stock mode, no pilot tree, no quirks, I'd probably go no more than 5v8 or 10v12, and even then I'd give the Clans a tonnage penalty. If average IS weight is 55 per mech, that is 440 and 550 tons of IS verses, say, 340 and 450 tons Clan.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 02 October 2016 - 07:26 AM.

[RestosIII]

Pariah Devalis, on 02 October 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

Indeed. But that is why, even in TT, Clan vs IS matchups had quality over quantity for Clan, and Quantity over Quality for IS. You'd be looking at one star of 5 mechs vs two to three lances of IS mechs. In MWO stock mode, no pilot tree, no quirks, I'd probably go no more than 5v8 or 10v12, and even then I'd give the Clans a tonnage penalty. If average IS weight is 55 per mech, that is 440 and 550 tons of IS verses, say, 340 and 450 tons Clan.

I'm still angry we don't have stars in FW. That sort of disregard for lore really adds up to make the game feel wrong.