52 replies to this topic

[cgdeth]

I wouldn't call this "evidence." But Lights do seem to be a little to hardy and not fast enough. I got my bad company title in a spider. Lost both arms, one side torso and one leg.

[Ted Wayz]

FupDup, on 01 October 2016 - 01:19 PM, said:

Don't pull the Clan card.

I've made the same defenses for lights like the Firestarter, because people like you ALWAYS make the exact same complaints about any light that they can't kill in a single mouse click.

Didn't pull the clan card, just predicted the inevitable Clan coming to defend their binky.

One click? Ha! Watched a Cheeter face tank an Atlas and take multiple AC20 rounds. Give you one guess who won.

As I said, hard to ignore hard data (thanks to Taragato). Second highest median score normalized for tonnage after the Kodiak? Give you one guess. Sad thing? No one was surprised.

Unfortunately the reason why the Crow and Timber, also with borked hitboxes, have never been fixed is the same reason why this mech never will. PGI can't fix the flaw that make these broken without redoing the coding from the bottom up. And PGI only does that for IS mechs (see Firestarter and Spider).

So stop trying to defend this abomination, it is insulting to everyone who has any clue about this game.

cgdeth, on 01 October 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

I wouldn't call this "evidence." But Lights do seem to be a little to hardy and not fast enough. I got my bad company title in a spider. Lost both arms, one side torso and one leg.

Agreed. used to be able one shot legs off lights with an AC20. Now it doesn't even work on a Locust.

[FupDup]

Ted Wayz, on 01 October 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

Didn't pull the clan card, just predicted the inevitable Clan coming to defend their binky.

You're pulling the Clan card again. It's the MWO forum equivalent of pulling the race or gender card in political discussions.

Need I remind you that the creator of this thread picked a Clan forum logo?

Other defenders of lights in this thread include an FRR, Davion, and two neutrals.

Stop with the roleplaying. A player's faction forum tag is arbitrary; it means absolutely nothing about most of them. Players with IS tags can defend Clan mechs/guns and players with Clan tags can defend IS mechs/gun. All it takes to have a Clan logo is to click a button in the FP interface. All it takes to have an IS logo is to do the same.

I don't align myself with any "forum political party" here other than the Bittervets, which isn't biased toward or against any faction.

Ted Wayz, on 01 October 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

One click? Ha! Watched a Cheeter face tank an Atlas and take multiple AC20 rounds. Give you one guess who won.

As I said, hard to ignore hard data (thanks to Taragato). Second highest median score normalized for tonnage after the Kodiak? Give you one guess. Sad thing? No one was surprised.

Tarogato also made a Reddit post about the Cheetah's hitboxes and found out that they perfectly aligned with the mech's visual 3D model.

Ted Wayz, on 01 October 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

Unfortunately the reason why the Crow and Timber, also with borked hitboxes, have never been fixed is the same reason why this mech never will. PGI can't fix the flaw that make these broken without redoing the coding from the bottom up. And PGI only does that for IS mechs (see Firestarter and Spider).

Now you're accusing the SCR and TBR of having broken hitboxes, too? I don't think you understand the difference between a good hitbox and a broken hitbox. A broken hitbox means that you can shoot a mech's body part and that body part never registers any damage. A good hitbox just means that a mech can spread damage across its body parts uniformly.

Ted Wayz, on 01 October 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

So stop trying to defend this abomination, it is insulting to everyone who has any clue about this game.

Everyone who has any clue about this game doesn't blame hitboxes for their losses.

Everyone who has any clue about this game can kill or scare off any light mech quickly.

[VorpalAnvil]

Ted Wayz, on 01 October 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

Thought this was a necro post from...well since the Cheeter was released.

Commence with the clan defending this broken light, ignoring the recently posted leader board results, saying it is fine for a light to tank IS assaults.

People like yourself make piloting the Cheetah so much more satisfying...

[RestosIII]

Ted Wayz, on 01 October 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

Didn't pull the clan card, just predicted the inevitable Clan coming to defend their binky.

One click? Ha! Watched a Cheeter face tank an Atlas and take multiple AC20 rounds. Give you one guess who won.

As I said, hard to ignore hard data (thanks to Taragato). Second highest median score normalized for tonnage after the Kodiak? Give you one guess. Sad thing? No one was surprised.

Unfortunately the reason why the Crow and Timber, also with borked hitboxes, have never been fixed is the same reason why this mech never will. PGI can't fix the flaw that make these broken without redoing the coding from the bottom up. And PGI only does that for IS mechs (see Firestarter and Spider).

So stop trying to defend this abomination, it is insulting to everyone who has any clue about this game.


Agreed. used to be able one shot legs off lights with an AC20. Now it doesn't even work on a Locust.

Just because the mechs are comparatively good against their counterparts doesn't mean they have broken hitboxes. And please give us evidence of those AC/20 shots actually hitting instead of the pilot missing.

[Mcgral18]

Wait a minute, I have video evidence!




Hitboxes work a KM out

[Deathlike]

So, on Day 1 of this "casual" event, I got 5 kills with 4 KMDDs in a Cheetah.

Either I'm OP or other people were bad.

The answer is somewhere in between, but the latter is more likely the cause.

Mcgral18, on 01 October 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

Wait a minute, I have video evidence!




Hitboxes work a KM out

Mech in the clear view distance on HPG? Screw Doritos, you have super-haxxor vision!

[Mcgral18]

In other news...this is how it feels to pilot a Cheetah when you go from killing a Potato, to facing competent competition who knows how to aim



They go from missing your leg entirely, to cutting it off in one go.

[VorpalAnvil]

Mcgral18, on 01 October 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

Wait a minute, I have video evidence!




Hitboxes work a KM out

I've run into that Sauron guy before. And based on my experience with him, it couldn't have happened to a better person.

[RestosIII]

Mcgral18, on 01 October 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

That's just me whenever I play in general. I'm not very good.

[MechaBattler]

FupDup, on 01 October 2016 - 11:53 AM, said:

Fixed.

I've seen people accuse the Commando and Panther of having broken hitboxes, for crying out loud.

Right all those dastardly Commando and Panther threads going around these days. With their sub 30 firepower.

Edited by MechaBattler, 01 October 2016 - 03:17 PM.

[DrxAbstract]

Rock Roller, on 01 October 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

You can loose a leg in Alpha. Once that happens you are dead.

Nonsense poopy pants!

Not only have I killed my attacker in a legged Light, I've gone on to kill a few more afterward on several occasions--You shouldnt just throw in the towel after losing a leg! You've still got teeth, like a rabid squirrel some kid just picked up: Bite'em! Use those crooked teeth! OMNOMNOMNOM!

[El Bandito]

I just take out both arms of those Cheetahs and then move onto worthier targets.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 October 2016 - 07:13 PM.

[JadePanther]

i've seen arctic cheezors soak up some ******** damage standing still sometimes.. it may not be that thier hitboxes are broken but damage registration might be broken sometimes..

[Tarogato]

ACH is fine. Absolutely nothing was wrong with its hitboxes last I checked, and it's not like PGI has made any changes to it since then.

The problem isn't hitboxes, it's client-server synchronisation. You know... HSR and all that jazz. The other day in some 2v2 exercises one of my opponents accidentally overheated and shut down. I put an alpha right square into his stationary leg and absolutely zero damage registered. I didn't even get a red reticule. One of the very few times I've ever experienced an actual undeniable case of borked hitreg. But it happens. And it's not the fault of hitboxes, because I've scrutinesed every inch of this mech's hitboxes and I know they are not at fault.

As with all mechs, there are some minor discrepancies along the outline of the mech. The only glaring issue is the toes not being hitboxed at all, but nobody should be aiming at toes on any mechs in the first place. You should be aiming at the thighs (where on the ACH, the hitboxes conveniently are already perfect.)

Tarogato, on 02 December 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

On the topic of Arctic Cheetahs...


The Arctic Cheetah is a bit maligned as having broken hitboxes. It tanks so much damage that it can only be full of deadzones and magic pixie dust. Well, I've put the hitboxes to scrutiny. Very heavy scrutiny. I've attempted to map every pixel on the following images as accurately as I possibly could and I've spent many hours doing this. Hopefully this will lay to rest the claims of "broken hitboxes" for this mech and point out the few minor flaws it does possess so that hopefully PGI can address them.

First, the discrepancies between the visual model and the physical hitboxes. By tracing the outline of a mech with your range finder you can determine exactly where the mech's hitbox begins and ends. The following image shows these discrepancies: red is for dead zones (parts of the mech you can shoot right through) and blue is for "invisible" hitboxes that you can hit but doesn't appear on the model.



What we can see here is that the hitboxes are VERY tight and for the most part very well done. The cupola on the top of the mech's head is not meshed for hits, but that's to be expected. Where the arm joins the shoulder there is a bit of "invisible arm" syndrome, but it's not a big deal. The bottom of the front pelvic plate protrudes downward a little as well. But the most noticeable error is the chunk of lower leg on either side that isn't included in the hitbox, making the legs smaller than they actually appear. Also, the ankles and toes aren't included.

I won't bother providing a graphic for the side view - it's actually a lot more accurate. The only discrepancies I could find from the side where that the leg hitbox protudes noticeably at the shins making the leg larger than it appears, offering the opposite effect from what the frontal view gets and effectively cancelling both out in the grand scheme of things.



From the front this is very typical and I've found nothing noteworthy. I won't bother providing a side view - for the most part side panels of the mech all count towards the adjacent front hitbox, pretty standard stuff and I haven't discovered any issues.



From the rear it's slightly more interesting, but nothing surprising. The laser mounts on top of the side torsos count as front torso from all angles. The frontal pelvic plate can be hit from behind, but it's rather inconsequential. At the narrow-most point in the pelvis/hipjoint it is possible to reach through and touch the front side torsos, but it's somewhat difficult to do and actually impossible from most angles. This is actually typical of most mechs, so again - not surprising.

---

Many Cheetahs were harmed in the making of these graphics.

Like I said, I tried to be as exacting as possible in mapping these hitboxes. Hopefully this helps anybody who might have some questions about them or is curious to see what they look like. Lastly, here's an slow-mo of a prominent streamer that missed an ACH and blamed the hitboxes being broken instead of accepting that he simply could have missed because it's a tiny mech with slender limbs:

Edited by Tarogato, 02 October 2016 - 03:07 AM.

[Cyanided]

I've been on the receiving end of lights in general (included the ACHs) and I tip my hat to them. I have never felt any particular mech were OP. They thrashed me all equally.

As an Arctic pilot, I do seen lights take on larger mechs more confidently in the last few months. I attribute this more to a general evolution of light tactics that's happened due to the recent assault / heavy / medium events. When the whole team's 75t and above something's bound to change. There's still the occasional idiot who run head on and get alpha'ed, but now days the footwork is fancier, the fire is a lot more targeted.

In general, just because there's less tonnage doesn't mean there's less damage potential, it just means the pilot's sacrificed armor for mobility.

[Trollfeed]

You go shooting cheetah with lazors in the upper torso and he will do a dandy pirouette distibuting damage between 7 different hit locations. Just shoot at the crotch and you won't miss damage due to leg movement and all components you can hit there are pretty much instant death.

Cheetah isn't really that tanky, it's just above average for light mechs. The reason they do so well is because they are above average in firepower, stealth and mobility too.

[Ghogiel]

FupDup, on 01 October 2016 - 11:53 AM, said:

Fixed.

I've seen people accuse the Commando and Panther of having broken hitboxes, for crying out loud.

the COM was a bit broken imo, but not to do with it's hitboxes per say, but because when it was going 170kph and when it was accel decellng so fast it started to break the MWO HSR speed barrier, depending on attack vector if it was oblique enough I had learned to lag shoot them by a half a length or whatever or hitboxes would not uncommonly be off.

It never came up as an issue because it was never the best light mech.

this is also why when hitboxes come up as being broken people posting that are usually wrong and people posting vids of stationary mechs testing hit boxes are missing the point.

Thankfully PGI nerfed the speedtwerk down so the game actually works much better within the HSR code base. Now baring server desync shenanigans hitreg is ok, especially compared to how it used to be against lights

[Zibmo]

FupDup, on 01 October 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

Hitboxes are always the first thing that people blame when a light mech doesn't die in one mouse click. Always.

While "git gud" is what light pilots say whenever a light mech doesn't die in a dozen mouse clicks Always.

[Deathlike]

Zibmo, on 02 October 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

While "git gud" is what light pilots say whenever a light mech doesn't die in a dozen mouse clicks Always.

If you aimed for anything other than the leg, then yes, it's legitimate.