12 replies to this topic

[AncientRaig]

So, honestly this is something that seriously confuses me. In the lore, most mechs that move at 81kph in game had a top speed of 86.4kph. MWO has mostly followed lore speeds for default mech loadouts, like on the Centurion, Orion, Shadow Cat, Storm Crow, etc... However, it appears that any mechs with a top speed of 86.4kph had their speed cut down to 81kph for reasons I can't figure out. 55 ton mechs that should hit 86.4 with a 275 require a 295 to come up to 86.8kph. While not a massive speed difference with a 275, it's noticeable and keeps IS 55 tonners locked to either XL engines or being completely outmanuevered by every Clan medium save for the Nova, which is also hurt by this lowered top speed. So what do the devs have against mechs going 86.4kph? It's also something I've noticed with the 100 tonners like the Atlas, which should go at 54kph with its default 300. Is there any reasoning for this? Is it really game breaking to have these mechs going at their listed default speeds, or was there some other reason? I'm just genuinely curious.

[Monkey Lover]

Speed tweak nerf?

[Deathlike]

IIRC, it's math and rounding.

You figure out the details.

Rounding happens on TT, thus inflating the speed #s.

It doesn't happen in any MW game.

[Y E O N N E]

Lower base speed so that the Speed Tweak skill has room to put it closer to expected TT value.

Personally, I still haven't gotten used to the new values since they nerfed Speed Tweak. I still expect to see 89.1 on my Blackjacks and am always rudely reminded that it's 87.1 now.

[Novakaine]

Were they not suppose to restore that sometimes after the Steam release?

[Y E O N N E]

Novakaine, on 19 October 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

Were they not suppose to restore that sometimes after the Steam release?

No. IIRC, the nerf to skills was to reduce the disparity between new players in fresh 'Mechs and experienced ones in fully mastered 'Mechs.

Personally, I don't think it really changed anything. The benefit provided by the 'Mech Tree stuff is a drop in the bucket compared to the gulf between a new pilot and a veteran.

[Tarl Cabot]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 October 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

No. IIRC, the nerf to skills was to reduce the disparity between new players in fresh 'Mechs and experienced ones in fully mastered 'Mechs.

Personally, I don't think it really changed anything. The benefit provided by the 'Mech Tree stuff is a drop in the bucket compared to the gulf between a new pilot and a veteran.

imho the Skill Tree needed some trimming but PGI used a #2 instead of a #4 on the clippers...

[Y E O N N E]

Tarl Cabot, on 19 October 2016 - 05:52 PM, said:

imho the Skill Tree needed some trimming but PGI used a #2 instead of a #4 on the clippers...

I think the whole thing needs reworked, but trimming the existing stuff was kind of pointless. The big deals were the heat-related items, and IIRC those didn't get touched. Meanwhile, the agility items were countered by agility quirks, meaning they could have just applied more limited quirks to close the gulf and left the tree alone.

Arg. The whole thing is frustrating and silly.

[Mcgral18]

Yep, number rounding


There's a formula for speed, but mechs can't move half-hexes

So, in TT they buff the speed to the next full tile
MWO doesn't have tiles, it can use the real, un-buffed, number

[FupDup]

Tabletop's speed values are, in a number of cases, the wrong values. The reason for this is that TT hated decimals, and thus they almost always rounded them. In this case, speed was always rounded up.

The TT formula for walking speed was engine / tonnage. So, our Mad Cat is 375 / 75 = 5 walking points. For running speed, you multiplied the walking speed by 1.5. This gives us 7.5 hexes. Since you can't ever move half a hex, TT rounds this up to 8. Any mech with an odd number of walking points benefited from this rounding scheme.

After you had the number of hexes figured out, the "lore" speed was that value times 10.8.

MWO's values are the correct values because none of them are rounded like this. There is no "ghost speed" like TT had.

Edited by FupDup, 19 October 2016 - 06:08 PM.

[cazidin]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 October 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

No. IIRC, the nerf to skills was to reduce the disparity between new players in fresh 'Mechs and experienced ones in fully mastered 'Mechs.

Personally, I don't think it really changed anything. The benefit provided by the 'Mech Tree stuff is a drop in the bucket compared to the gulf between a new pilot and a veteran.

About that. Am I the only one who's concerned that PGI's plans to change the skill tree will be a monstrous hybrid of the current skill system, with nerfs, and modules?

[Y E O N N E]

cazidin, on 19 October 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

About that. Am I the only one who's concerned that PGI's plans to change the skill tree will be a monstrous hybrid of the current skill system, with nerfs, and modules?

No, you are not the only one. There are an infinite number of ways this could go badly.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 October 2016 - 09:24 PM, said:

No, you are not the only one. There are an infinite number of ways this could go badly.

It's not just infinite, it's the only way to go.