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#21 Deathlike

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 05:19 PM

View PostMoonlight Grimoire, on 02 October 2016 - 05:17 PM, said:


Hmm, so ELO was truly Zero Sum, I hadn't known that. Then again that type of math makes my brain hurt so I can't complain about getting it wrong.

As for the group stuff not working in that method, I was not around back then, sad to hear it does not work, highly unfortunate. Still though the XP bar PSR bar does not work as a proper measuring tool. We can see this by how long it takes for T1 players to get a match, if things were properly distributed instead of the weird distribution.


You quoted the wrong person... I think you meant to quote Wintersdark.

#22 KodiakGW

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 07:15 PM

OP. It's always good to post up some screen shots proving your point or you will get a bunch always saying "common denominator is you" like parrots with no brains.

As for all you white knights saying nothing is wrong. Here are some screen shots of the fantastic, well balanced, solo PUG games I got tonight. Three just before 8PM EST, and 3 just a little while ago.

http://i.imgur.com/HhDv8O7.jpg
How about that, a win from base capping. And still 4 sub 150 match score on my team. Then the losses started.

http://i.imgur.com/zWF6kD2.jpg
WOW, 7 sub 100 match score. Looks like a really well balanced game to me!!!!! You didn't "CARRY HARDER" Kodiak!

http://i.imgur.com/IFbV2nv.jpg
5 sub 150 match score. And one disconnect. On my team again.

http://i.imgur.com/ZIDZ4JS.jpg
Close one? Look again. Six sub 150 match score. 1/2 the team less than minimally viable.

http://i.imgur.com/627nHtp.jpg
7 sub 150 match score. Me, top damage and match on my team. I was going to call it a night at that point because I got my KMDD. But I decided to make a bet in match chat that if I got a team with less than 4 sub 150 match, I would spend $20. Thinking about upgrading my Marauder pack so I can qualify for the free Stalker. So I played one more...

http://i.imgur.com/EUxE8HX.jpg
PHEW! Saved myself $20. Thanks PGI for giving me another "CARRY HARDER" team. Six in a row. How about that.

And guess what?? I'm playing with a 101 degree fever and a sore throat! I wonder what excuse all the sub 100 match score players have.

I'm going to make it interesting. I'm going to take tomorrow to recover. I may take another day or two. But when I come back, I will play 3 games in my KDK-4. If anyone on my team gets higher damage AND match score than me, I will gift them any of the Wave 1 Clan Hero mech of their choice, with 2 stipulations.

1) Less than 4 players on my team get less than 150 match score. This way I don't get people intentionally throwing the match or purposely abandoning me. Seeing is that I'm one of the "CARRY HARDER" players, it is in your best interest to back me up and steal my kills if you get on my team. That way you can beat my match and damage.
2) Less than 4 players on the enemy team get less than 150 match score. This way I don't get nothing but rolls and have to gift many players mechs because I can't keep up.

That's right people. Free stuff. And all you have to do when you see me in a match with you is play up to your potential. At least, what PSRXPBar solo PUG MM believes is your potential. I will play three games and post the results in this thread. I'll also be recording all three matches in case there is some blatent team damage or enemy assistance (like getting behind me and keeping me from backing up).

Now, you never know which day and what time I will play. But I will give you a hint. I usually play between 8PM and 12AM EST. Contest ends Thursday night, 11:59PM.

Now white knights and naysayers blah blah all you want. Pick apart my screen shots forgetting I'm sick. I'm putting my money where my mouth is. Any of you willing to gift me Clan Hero mechs for ever game I do top match AND damage, and have 4+ sub 150 match on my side? Any takers? Anybody willing to back up what they say? I bet I won't see one.

Now I'm off to watch Evil Dead 2. Groovy.

#23 El Bandito

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Posted 02 October 2016 - 07:15 PM

Posted Image

#24 Thunder Child

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 02:00 AM

I wish I could get out of Tier 3. I seem to win a few, then lose enough to get kicked back into 3. Maybe I deserve to be here for my Yolo'ing, but, to stick with the point of this Thread, GODDAMNIT PGI! FIX MY YOLO SO THAT I WIN ALL THE THINGS!

#25 Revis Volek

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 02:10 AM

View PostDouglas grizzly, on 02 October 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:


one ban level 1's from dropping with lower levels and 2 the alternate accounts of those level 1's should be based on the old accounts level. track this using the isp. also do random sweeps for cheat programs and do not announce it in any way.



Wow man, this is some unheard and unblazed territory here.

You should petition this to some other game since no one looks for hacks and no one tries their hardest (despite the limitations of the community) to make this a reality.

View PostEl Bandito, on 02 October 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

Posted Image



Those first year(s) in a CDA before i learned anything by myself was rough.

#26 TWIAFU

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 03:59 AM

View PostKodiakGW, on 02 October 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

OP. It's always good to post up some screen shots proving your point or you will get a bunch always saying "common denominator is you" like parrots with no brains.

As for all you white knights saying nothing is wrong. Here are some screen shots of the fantastic, well balanced, solo PUG games I got tonight. Three just before 8PM EST, and 3 just a little while ago.

http://i.imgur.com/HhDv8O7.jpg
How about that, a win from base capping. And still 4 sub 150 match score on my team. Then the losses started.

http://i.imgur.com/zWF6kD2.jpg
WOW, 7 sub 100 match score. Looks like a really well balanced game to me!!!!! You didn't "CARRY HARDER" Kodiak!

http://i.imgur.com/IFbV2nv.jpg
5 sub 150 match score. And one disconnect. On my team again.

http://i.imgur.com/ZIDZ4JS.jpg
Close one? Look again. Six sub 150 match score. 1/2 the team less than minimally viable.

http://i.imgur.com/627nHtp.jpg
7 sub 150 match score. Me, top damage and match on my team. I was going to call it a night at that point because I got my KMDD. But I decided to make a bet in match chat that if I got a team with less than 4 sub 150 match, I would spend $20. Thinking about upgrading my Marauder pack so I can qualify for the free Stalker. So I played one more...

http://i.imgur.com/EUxE8HX.jpg
PHEW! Saved myself $20. Thanks PGI for giving me another "CARRY HARDER" team. Six in a row. How about that.

And guess what?? I'm playing with a 101 degree fever and a sore throat! I wonder what excuse all the sub 100 match score players have.

I'm going to make it interesting. I'm going to take tomorrow to recover. I may take another day or two. But when I come back, I will play 3 games in my KDK-4. If anyone on my team gets higher damage AND match score than me, I will gift them any of the Wave 1 Clan Hero mech of their choice, with 2 stipulations.

1) Less than 4 players on my team get less than 150 match score. This way I don't get people intentionally throwing the match or purposely abandoning me. Seeing is that I'm one of the "CARRY HARDER" players, it is in your best interest to back me up and steal my kills if you get on my team. That way you can beat my match and damage.
2) Less than 4 players on the enemy team get less than 150 match score. This way I don't get nothing but rolls and have to gift many players mechs because I can't keep up.

That's right people. Free stuff. And all you have to do when you see me in a match with you is play up to your potential. At least, what PSRXPBar solo PUG MM believes is your potential. I will play three games and post the results in this thread. I'll also be recording all three matches in case there is some blatent team damage or enemy assistance (like getting behind me and keeping me from backing up).

Now, you never know which day and what time I will play. But I will give you a hint. I usually play between 8PM and 12AM EST. Contest ends Thursday night, 11:59PM.

Now white knights and naysayers blah blah all you want. Pick apart my screen shots forgetting I'm sick. I'm putting my money where my mouth is. Any of you willing to gift me Clan Hero mechs for ever game I do top match AND damage, and have 4+ sub 150 match on my side? Any takers? Anybody willing to back up what they say? I bet I won't see one.

Now I'm off to watch Evil Dead 2. Groovy.


Play with pugtards in the pugtard queue, guess what, you get pugtard games. Not to mention the pugtards are out in force for another event.

This is not rocket science, hell not even science it is just common sense and history repeating itself or is this your first time dropping during an event in the pugtard queue?

#27 El Bandito

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 05:08 AM

View PostTWIAFU, on 03 October 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

Play with pugtards in the pugtard queue, guess what, you get pugtard games. Not to mention the pugtards are out in force for another event.

This is not rocket science, hell not even science it is just common sense and history repeating itself or is this your first time dropping during an event in the pugtard queue?


True, there are pugtards in my queues, but they are also on the other side as well. Overall it balances out. The events did not affect my WLR negatively in the solo-q. Increased it from 1.364 to 1.367, actually. So guess I am lucky?

#28 RussianWolf

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 05:35 AM

Douglas:
1) unless they made recent changes, which is possible as I have played like two nights out of the last two month (wife was out of town and I was bored), T1s can't play with T4s and T5s already. T2s can't play with T5s. This is in the Solo queue.

2)Cheats? can't help you there, but I will say that I have never personally seen evidence of one in game. Some people just know how to aim and watch shadows and things.

Moonlight:
3) if they ever put the 2-3 man groups in Solo queue, the game will be officially dead to me. No chance I ever play again. We fought long and hard to get that queue and it works.

4) they once had a 8v8 queue. It was completely dead. Its hard to field a group of a set size for any length of time. That's why making the group queue 2-10+12 was important, it allowed the group size to be flexible. Someone needs to jump off and fix dinner? no problem, we continue at 7. Couple people pop in for a few games. No problem, we play 10 man for a couple.

The only way this works is to add another queue for 1-3 (like before), but then you are making another bucket for people to complain about wait times.

#29 Tarogato

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 06:53 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 02 October 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

I did the math elsewhere


Oooh, linky? =D

#30 Wintersdark

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 06:54 AM

View PostMoonlight Grimoire, on 02 October 2016 - 05:17 PM, said:


Hmm, so ELO was truly Zero Sum, I hadn't known that. Then again that type of math makes my brain hurt so I can't complain about getting it wrong.
It wasn't zero sum, not really. Moreso than PSR is, though. The same problem arises when you have new players joining, and old players leaving: As each new player starts at low rank, works their way up the ladder then eventually leaves, a truly zero sum system would see players "acquire" points from other players, then stop playing removing those points from the total pool.

Mathematically speaking, a purely zero sum system can't work in an environment like this.

Quote

As for the group stuff not working in that method, I was not around back then, sad to hear it does not work, highly unfortunate. Still though the XP bar PSR bar does not work as a proper measuring tool. We can see this by how long it takes for T1 players to get a match, if things were properly distributed instead of the weird distribution.

EDIT: Fixed a misquote, sorry about that Deathlike, your points are still 100% valid though.


Yeah, we had 8v8 and groups of up to 4. 8v8 was basically non-functional most of the time, it'd often be literally impossible to get a match, and often what you'd end up with is ~3 teams playing each other (with one team off waiting) over and over. It was terrible.

Then we had groups limited to 4. That seems great, except what happens in practice is any group of friends >4 runs into all sorts of problems. Got 5 friends? One gets to sit out, or you're playing a group of 2 and a group of 3. What if you have 7? So, people split up, but they tend to queue at the same time. As players in those situations tended to equalise Elo/PSR between them, they'd end up in matches together, and very often on the same side. So now you've got teams with what amounts to a big group vs. lots of little groups all over again. Same situation, except that you can't reliably play with your friends.

The current system is decidedly better, as flawed as it is.

#31 Wintersdark

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 07:03 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 02 October 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

Posted Image


Kids today!

When I started, in 2012, there was literally no matchmaker. The game had just entered open beta, and the majority of players where hardened vets in teams. There was punishing rearm and repair costs, so being a solo player, i'd typically end up in a group of 8 solo players vs. an 8 man experienced team. They'd have optimized mechs with upgrades, but I couldn't afford to upgrade my Commando due to the punishing repair costs. So my team of pugs - typically a third of which would be in stock trial mechs (SHS, baby!), another third would not be fully repaired, and likely none would feature upgrades like XL engines or ES/FF. Then we'd be facing premade experienced teams on VOIP with fully optimized mechs.

Good times.

I got my first legit solo kill at the end of January 2013. I don't even know how long it took me to get a positive wlr; but it'd be at least 6 months into my time in MWO. Wasn't till well after the launch of the Flame and Fang.

And people complain about PSR and the matchmaker.

*shakes cane*

View PostTarogato, on 03 October 2016 - 06:53 AM, said:

Oooh, linky? =D


http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__5397711

Edit: We were talking about doubling player counts not making any difference, but at those numbers ten times the player counts would still result in you facing the many of the same players over and over, match after match.

Edited by Wintersdark, 03 October 2016 - 07:05 AM.


#32 Mister Blastman

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 07:09 AM

OP I have said it before and will say it again, that if you have a chronically low win/loss and kill/death ratios that are below 1:1, it isn't your team but your own abilities you need to worry about and strive to improve. I'm not sure where you stand but you can check out how you are doing in your profile and on the leaderboards. They are a great source of figuring out where we stand and once you know, you can roll your sleeves up and start doing the hard work it takes to improve at the game.

Now if you play only on occasion (like I tend to do), sometimes you just have bad nights where the matchmaker is hosing you or the servers aren't registering your damage (like they did for me last night). But if you've got hundreds of drops with low ratios... time to start watching better players and practice!

#33 TVMA Doc

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 08:47 AM

My son also plays MWO at times, so trying to determine who is a high level player with a smurf account will be difficult. You might end up punishing players who really don't play the game that often by assuming that they are alternate accounts.

There's already too much grind in this game to get all of the mechs I want, all of the modules unlocked/purchased, etc. I really don't have any interest in opening a new account for some sort of "advantage" in a tourney/event. I know that there are such players, but it's being overblown.

#34 Akhri Mala

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 09:11 AM

I have 4 people who either reside in my home or come over to play MWO.

Punishing us for using the same IP is asinine.


What about people who play from college? Should they be punished for IP address too?

#35 Mystere

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 09:12 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 03 October 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:


Kids today!

When I started, in 2012, there was literally no matchmaker. The game had just entered open beta, and the majority of players where hardened vets in teams. There was punishing rearm and repair costs, so being a solo player, i'd typically end up in a group of 8 solo players vs. an 8 man experienced team. They'd have optimized mechs with upgrades, but I couldn't afford to upgrade my Commando due to the punishing repair costs. So my team of pugs - typically a third of which would be in stock trial mechs (SHS, baby!), another third would not be fully repaired, and likely none would feature upgrades like XL engines or ES/FF. Then we'd be facing premade experienced teams on VOIP with fully optimized mechs.

Good times.

I got my first legit solo kill at the end of January 2013. I don't even know how long it took me to get a positive wlr; but it'd be at least 6 months into my time in MWO. Wasn't till well after the launch of the Flame and Fang.

And people complain about PSR and the matchmaker.

*shakes cane*


Those were the days that unfortunately are long gone. Posted Image

Now, If only PGI will let me drop solo in the group queue <maniacal Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image> ...

#36 Temuedschin40

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 10:52 AM

View PostDouglas grizzly, on 02 October 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

I have found over countless drops over the last year that there are automatic losses that fall under two categories or a combination of the two. category one is a drop into canyon and the other is a conquest drop. In both cases the people i have the misfortune to drop with cant seem to shoot right or get slaughtered when the other side is all tier one players or have multiple cheaters or both. Since pgi cant or wont fix the situation i do not expect it to get better and this is more of a irritated rant. forum trolls buzz off since you seem to delight in pestering people.


So, to "solve" your personal problems with this game, i got 2 possibilities for ya:

1) If you think you're the best player around and everybody is just pulling you down, why do you play at all? Nobody forces you to play a video game man, especially not if you're frustrated about it.

2) Since you actually aren't the best player around (that title probably goes to "prtNspz" aka Proton), you have to recognize your mistakes and learn to avoid them instead of blaming stuff like gamemode, map, or accusing others of cheating. If you never see your own mistakes, you'll never improve.

I'm not gonna repeat some of the very logical stuff ppl said in here, like that there's always 12 ppl winning and 12 ppl losing in each match, so blaming map/gamemode doesn't make any sense.
Blaming your team is by far not always legit, if your end score is below average on your team, you were part of the problem, it's that simple (as long as you didn't get 3 backstab solo kills and thus got sub 200 dmg out).
Since you stated often enough that you like your streakcrow, which spreads its dmg all across the enemy mech, you're obviously not a candidate for those highly dmg-efficient backstab kills.
(Actually it's the other way round on streakboats since their dmg effectivity is pretty much as low as you can get in this game, so 500 dmg in a streakcrow is to be evaluated less than 500 dmg in a dual gauss hunchie or so)

Also, you stated that your survivability is what makes you a better player than a highly aggressive one. (I took this one from your arguements with Escef, anyone interested in reading it, just click on the search window and type in "douglas grizzly escef" and you're gonna find some stuff). But this is only true if you use your longer time in battle to do more dmg instead of chilling somewhere waiting for stuff to happen.
In case somebody wants some evidence for that statement, just look into this twitch highlight by Escef: https://www.twitch.tv/escef/v/86578977 (after leading his team into a good fighting position and thus dieing quickly, he starts spectating Douglas at 0:57, note that twitch killed the audio beause of the music until 2:05).
In that highlight theres you trying to trade with your streaks vs LPLs barely inside your maxrange, which is simply a bad idea because of the long time window the enemy has to get into cover before the missiles hit.
When you were charging the wolverine at 6:00 while being CT-crit from the trading vs LPLs, you tried to shield the dmg to your sides, which was good, but the WVR pilot was smart enough to wait until you look at him to shoot you.
Afterwards you accused your enemies of cheating, which is simply a fail accuse (I mean, you can see in the video that there was nothing strange happening which could have been cheating, literally nothing).

And honestly, there's nobody in the game, neither on the forums nor in that video, who's trolling you. We're all honest with you, but sometimes the truth is enough to insult ppl.

To make it short: you gotta actually start seeing your own mistakes and learn from them. Players honestly trying to get good at the game are very welcome in this great community, but blaming everything except for you for your failure is certainly no proper behaviour and thus not seen with joy.

I hope you are actually taking me serious on this, because I am.
And you should also take players with much more experience serious, for example is Escef playing this game since 2013, you started in february 2016 and call yourself a better player than him, which is simply not true due to the difference in experience.

#37 SoloidSnake

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 11:34 AM

View PostTemuedschin40, on 03 October 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

In case somebody wants some evidence for that statement, just look into this twitch highlight by Escef: https://www.twitch.tv/escef/v/86578977 (after leading his team into a good fighting position and thus dieing quickly, he starts spectating Douglas at 0:57, note that twitch killed the audio beause of the music until 2:05).
In that highlight theres you trying to trade with your streaks vs LPLs barely inside your maxrange, which is simply a bad idea because of the long time window the enemy has to get into cover before the missiles hit.
When you were charging the wolverine at 6:00 while being CT-crit from the trading vs LPLs, you tried to shield the dmg to your sides, which was good, but the WVR pilot was smart enough to wait until you look at him to shoot you.
Afterwards you accused your enemies of cheating, which is simply a fail accuse (I mean, you can see in the video that there was nothing strange happening which could have been cheating, literally nothing).


That was hard to watch for many reasons.

Douglas, quit making these nonsensical threads and posts complaining about issues that don't exist, and if they do they are isolated cases. You're giving yourself and your unit a bad name. (Even if said unit doesn't already have a reputation).

Edited by SoloidSnake, 03 October 2016 - 11:47 AM.


#38 Zolaz

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 02:02 PM

View PostPat Kell, on 02 October 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

Correct tier 1 guys shouldn't get to play because they are good. We should stick them in a corner and only let them come out when there are enough of them to play a match solely by themselves. How dare they have the audacity to point and click better than other people....monsters. Now, PGI, get out your magic coding book and make it happen ASAP.


One thing I have figured out after 4 years, PGI doesnt have a magic coding book. Most of the time I wonder if they have a coding book between the lot of em.

#39 Pat Kell

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 09:28 PM

View PostZolaz, on 03 October 2016 - 02:02 PM, said:


One thing I have figured out after 4 years, PGI doesnt have a magic coding book. Most of the time I wonder if they have a coding book between the lot of em.


Which is why my comment was laced with sarcasm...Now for a bit of realism, of course they have some kind of coding book or else the game you have been playing for the last 4 years wouldn't exist. May not be a good one and they may not read it much, but I am sure they have at least 1. Doubt it's magic thoughPosted Image .

#40 KodiakGW

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 06:43 PM

*See my last post in this thread.

Per my word. Signed on an played 3 games. Was ready to gift free Clan Hero Wave 1 mechs. Got three wins, if you call them that. Basically a reversal of what I saw the prior night. I guess this was ignored:

View PostKodiakGW, on 02 October 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

2) Less than 4 players on the enemy team get less than 150 match score.


First game - 7 sub 150 match on enemy team
http://i.imgur.com/R2ijBAz.jpg

Second game - 8 sub 150 match - I was barely able to keep up with the stomp.
http://i.imgur.com/oHkFeds.jpg

Third game - This one was not actually too bad. But again, I got top match and damage, as well as 5 sub 150 match on the losing team.
http://i.imgur.com/1JCOk9D.jpg

Really all I just want is to see good games. That's all. Knock down, drag out fights where you really mean "GG" at the end. Not being on one end or the other of a stomp.

Why can't we have that?

Anyway, I could be a real "pee eye arr kay" and not gift anyone a clan hero mech. But, since I'm a nice guy, I think I will to one of the non-group member players (no tags) who did well, doesn't have a immature name, and suffered being on the PSRXPBar losing team.

And, by the way, watching Evil Dead 2 again was....groovy.





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