202 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

Every Journey need to come to an end - 4 years from the first step in Sketchup....

Intro:

The latest Bushwacker Contest did remind me that the storage of BattleTech ammunition is usually something that needs either black magic or black hole technology (depends on whom you ask)

• Thoughts about Size:
  
• The M7 Gauss Rifle
  
• The Gizzard Model 200 Gauss Rifle
  
• SRM Carrier
  
• For AS7-D FarFire Maxi LRM 20 and the TharHes Maxi SRM 6
  
• LegoWeapons and OmniTech - first thoughts
  
• AC Ammunition
  
• BattleMech Size and Reference
  
• Hetzer
  
• Schreck WIP
  
• Yellow Jacket WIP
  
• Sar Lon AC2 and SRM (Warrior weapons)
  
• Gauss Rifle Ammunition
  
• Schreck Photo Shot
  
• Schreck Blueprint

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Edited by Karl Streiger, 04 January 2021 - 01:17 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

as usuall i have not the patience to keep at one thing at a time

I wanted to try some "legotech weapon" experiments:

While I'm to lazy, old or stupid to learn another 3D modeling program i keep with Sketchup

Did I say I'm lazy? Yes I am. I didn't even bother to port the MWO Modells from the game pak but looked in the internet.


Interesting that there people that "sell" MWO Models for money, not those I used

Highlander, MAD and KitFox are ports from Wolfking bezogen,
CN9-A nonlegotech from 00meat
Hetzer andSchreck are from Mechforce Seite


while i havethe general size lets look at one weapon system that annoys me most the gauss.



Left LegoTech (from the MAD); Right the non legotech gauss of the highlander, maybe it doesn't look that bad ingame but it doesn't look much better



Considering that we use 100kg shells - and the length of a coil gun barrel is proportional to the projectile length - i used in this version huge caliber but short bullets.

Clan uses - 1:1 balls; IS 1:3 projectiles.


first proof of concept for the Kit Fox



....some minor detail work and - a "dirty trick" to reduce the volume of the projectile and the caliber: i use a tungsten or depleted uranium core.


Including riffling, working on the coolant currently.
the barrel length is 10 times the length of the projectle - the IS uses a 15x60mm projectile, while Clan uses 18x36mm


Possible Gauss Rounds:

Edited by Karl Streiger, 17 October 2016 - 04:46 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Given - the look and feel of the Deva main Gun - I decided to take the look for a M7... lets see if I'm able to mount the gun into the arm of a highlander - when I'm finished:

This was one of the many steps plus artwork of M7 Gauss Rifles

---

Finished Work:

There it is finished work at the M7 - it might need some polish but I think it is realistic enough or at least much more realistic when compared with several artworks or the LegoTech Gauss of MWO:

Because the M7 is used in the Highlander and Kheeper BattleMechs (I thought it might be a good idea to place it into the Deva, too. So here you have the arm mount of the Deva as well as the M7 fit into the MWO Highlander arm.

The "trick" was to place the major part of the apparatus into the back of the lower arm.
Each rifle comes with internal drum magazine and 16 bullets.

Cooling tanks contain 250kg of coolant ~5shots and those are refilled by a tank in the torso of each mech
While the Gauss looks small at the highlander it is the same gun.

6.1m accelerator
200 MJ output
333 MJ Input
acceleartion power 38GW, recoil 1.8GW
projectile fires 128mm iron bullet with a 50mm core of DU. The bullet heat up towards 706 K if the bullet is precooled to at least 273K
magnetic field strength ~40T

---

The last is interesting to have very short accelerators with low magnetic field strengths you need a huge cross area = huge bullets - and huge bullets = mass = "balls" rather than "bullets"

Cooling as a very important fact is against the lore,
Waste heat of the super conducting coils and super conducting capacitors must be around 143 MJ per shot = enough to boil 343 liter of water

With better coolings substances like FLiBe you only need ~50kg per shot

Edited by Karl Streiger, 17 October 2016 - 04:30 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

My first work in the BattleTech Universe should have been a 3D model of the Przeno Valley.
While I was arranging the defense I searched for a model of the SRM Carrier. The SRM carrier and the Tukayyid Campaign are a legend.

However I recognized that there was a descrepancy between the look of the LRM Carriers rack and those of the SRM. Additional the rectangle launcher of the SRM Carrier didn't looked like it could start and reload 60 missile tubes (exhaust?)

So I redesigned the SRM using the GURPS Vehicle Buiding system to have some references. Although the Corps system would have been possible too. I made them long but thin and rearanged them in a helical system:




10 Launchers looked like this.


However with a tiny engine and limited speed the SRM Carrier doesn't need such a huge body so in a later attemp it would be necessary to think about another system - maybe even redesign the SRM and call it LRM
The body is much to big, too.

With almost infinite room not very difficult

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Edited by Karl Streiger, 17 October 2016 - 04:07 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

After the SRM I felt ready for a challenge - lets try to make a Atlas.
As usual I looked at the manufacturers and found out it uses a FarFire LRM.

Cross checking the FarFire LRM I ended with this picture:

The FarFire LRM 15 of the JES II.
Most people might have accepted the difference as artistic freedom - but you don't become a spreadsheet worrior with such a lax attitude.

How for god-sake should the Atlas be able to carry 2tons = 240 missiles of those?

Well the solution: he doesn't !

Rather than 240 small missiles it uses 40 166mm missiles:



With 4 sub missiles - the 40maxi missiles are now 160 sub missiles. Although I could have used 6 sub missiles per volley I decided otherwise. Somewhere the Ceres Jaguar LRM 5 (Vindicator) was mentioned with 57mm.

It got three stages: The first in case of the MARK 1 is a propellant charge that expels the missile from the launcher. More a kind of a low powered gun or grenade launcher - there is no need for an exhaust - although the weight per launcher barrel is increased.
The MARK II however uses a rocket booster (JES II) with exhaust

This first stage is the main cause for the 180m minimal range, because the missile is pure ballistic in this stage. After that, communicator guidance or a inertial system guides the missile into its target area.
There a SALCOS (semi active laser) is searching for a target and started the third stage the release of the payload.
Range ~ 18-24km based on the payload - you don't need much guidance for FASCAM

Now placed in a calssic Revolver Mag - I have my two tons of ammunition in the Atlas. Still some room for engine, gyro,, AC20 and missile racks, capacitors and other stuff.

---

The second step was the TharHex Maxi SRM.

With the location at the hip - or at the shoulder for the Banshee 3S the missile bus wasn't an option. I needed to reload the launcher and I didn't have enough room to do it.

The solution might be that the length of the launcher is divided by two, or to reduce the missile diameter until it fits through the gaps between the launch tubes.

I used the thick missile version acordingly to the BattleArmor SRM launcher pictures in the TechManual.
Now 10 missiles per launch tube are loaded. The three tubes at the left side are loaded shortly before the "muzzle" while the other three tubes are loaded almost at the exhaust of the launcher.
This would stagger the volley in 2x3 missiles (although they should rather ripple fire to prevent mid air collisions)

Anyhow with just one ton I reduced the number of missiles to 60 rather than 90/100 missiles per ton.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 17 October 2016 - 04:25 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Although I really want to start with the UAC5 or other Autocannons to fit them into my Highlander Gauss Arm - i did need to consider one more thing:
THE Cerberus:


It is obvious that there is no room of a bigger apparatus in the rear of the Cerberus lower arm.
So I did need to reduce the barrel of my M7 from ~ 6m towards 3m.

Well there are two things that can do this: less muzzle energy or a stronger magnetic field and/or a bigger cross area for the bullet.
While it would have been more ideal to use a 300mm ball or metal - i wanted to test it with a 200x400mm FE bullet.

While muzzle energy is a constant i modified the cross area and the magnetic field strength.
Of course with only half the acceleator barrel the average power output is almost twice this of the M7 - and the recoil is even much bigger.

However, I was able to keep all my other "bits and pieces" The only difference is the ammunition handling, a coaxial clip below the accelerator and the length



When placed in the lower arm of the Highlanders left arm you might get an idea about the size.
Although the Grizzard 200 does weight more (bigger bullet, more recoil, still a suicidal strong magnetic field) it is more compact.

When we had hardpoint sizes the Gizzard would fit where the M7 could not and vice versa.
Of course the weapon handling would be different too.

More recoil, less speed, less range but the same kinetic energy on impact (at least at effective range)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 17 October 2016 - 04:44 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

So I have the idea about to reinvent hardpoint sizes for a time now.
The primary goal is visual fidelity. Stuff like mickey mouse ears, or missile in pauldrons or thumb ppcs for MAD shouldn't exist in the first place.

If made correct it should be also possible to reduce the time for the developer (because he doesn't have to fit every weapon in every place only a limited number of combinations.

this is a WIP with the flexible TimberWolf as test bed.

As you might see - there are two SRM6 in the "roof box" - no mickey mouse ears needed.
Although its not possible as for the Mickey Mouse ears to have two LRM 20s in the ST.

So the TBR-S as well as the TBR-P have the same missile hardpoint size - on the "down side?" this does mean when you do want a sidetorso with two missile pods or be able to mount a single LRM20 you can take either - Prime, S or D torso.

However the arms - do only carry a single ERPPC, Gauss, UAC5 and in one case dual large laser - so the hardpoint size in the arms should allow a single ERPPC or two large laser but not 2 ERPPCs or 1ERPPC and a Medium Laser....and so on.
The system i wanted to use first doesn't seem flexible enough - so i will need some time in the spread sheet universe.

---

Just realized that the Omni Mech Construction rules remove the hand and arm activators when mounting an ERPPC or Ballistic weapon.

This means a complete different arm for the TBR - Hellbringer maybe even MadDog (to stay in the heavy calls)

Considering the existing artworks the best way seems to be to take the approach of the DarkAge Mechs - Savage Wolf, Vulture IV etc.

The arm of the Summoner while adequate fails completely to reflect the "speciality" of no horicontal arm movement - higer weapon mounts (flip arms.

So started to redesign the arm of the Summoner new - and tried in on the MadCat

Edited by Karl Streiger, 19 October 2016 - 07:18 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

While I wanted to finish the work on the MadCats arm - i realized that i need some better models and understanding for the various types of autocannons.
The work start at the bullet:
I wanted to keep as close as possible to the various "guides" from novels, or source books.
For example Whirlwind A- on the MAD 120mm (4-5 cartridges per shot)
150mm but 10 shots for the Crusher Super Heavy AC on the Hetzer.
60mm for the Pontiac 100...



In the picture you see 2 5shot clips in a magazine feed for the 150mm super heavy.
10 shots is a serious problem when using a 150m caliber. No chance to make it a Armor Piecing bullet -so i decided to go the "HEDP" way. explosive filling should be much lighter - not much propellant - so performance when fighting Mechs might be controversial

Next is a 60mm CaseLess Bullet for the Pontiac - I found this magazine very interesting

So the multibarreled pontiac fires 7 bullet per burst before switching to another row and firing another 7 shots. This can happen very fast creating a barrage of 7 burst each with 7 60mm AP Bullets - that might not be able to penetrate most mechs armor with a single bullet but 49 might mangle the armor or virtually remove it from a target.

finaly the AC 5 for the Zeus - somewhere 75mm were mentioned - maybe a "homage" at the WW2 75mm guns of the Wehrmacht. don't know.
However the 75mm might be able to fire 4 bullets per shot and the ammunition is located in the arm next to the gun. So it might be quite simple - 4shot revolver is fed by a helical mag.

[Karl Streiger]

Some pictures about scale: I used some reference models from the Sketchup 3D Warehouse.





The Banshee has a total hight (upper side of the cockpit ~ 14m)
I know in lore based on the 3039 TRO it should be around 15.2m but the MWO Banshee is more massive, with shorter legs.

[spud35]

Do you think you could show some VTOLS or Aerospace fighters?

[Karl Streiger]

spud35, on 30 October 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

Do you think you could show some VTOLS or Aerospace fighters?

Well I could try, any suggestions or ideas?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 31 October 2016 - 11:51 AM.

[spud35]

Karl Streiger, on 31 October 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

Well I could try, any suggestions or ideas?

Hell cat AeroSpace Fighter or a Pegasus Hovertank

[spud35]

Rotary AC 20 Naval AC 40 maybe ?

[Karl Streiger]

spud35, on 31 October 2016 - 12:23 PM, said:

Hell cat AeroSpace Fighter or a Pegasus Hovertank

Puh - Hellcat - the flying tank or Hellcat II the heavy scout?
However both feature the Diverse Optics A Large Laser.... currently I'm stucked in "designing" those lasers.
Tricky beasts those "bread and butter" weapons

Meanwhile for relaxing, i updated the AC ammunition:

Edited by Karl Streiger, 04 January 2017 - 01:04 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

My take on the Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun.
It doesn't has anything in common with the BT Hetzer anymore... but the caliber of the main gun.
It was a process nothing that happened because I had this final look in mind.... maybe thats the reason that i needed hours to get here -and its still far from finished.

Process:

Spoiler

Almost finished Crusher Super Heavy AC20 (loading is similiar to the German 3,7cm FLAK - recoil mechanism uses myomer instead of hydraulics)

next to a "scale" Marauder

[Metus regem]

Care to give a shot to the Yellow Jacket Gunship?

30t VTOL with a Gauss Rifle...

http://www.sarna.net...i/Yellow_Jacket

[Karl Streiger]

Metus regem, on 04 January 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

Care to give a shot to the Yellow Jacket Gunship?

30t VTOL with a Gauss Rifle...

http://www.sarna.net...i/Yellow_Jacket

well started:

first the "canon" YJ seems to be to small - loaded weight of 30t must be near the Super Stallion - minus the room for the cargo - but the blades need to be that big.
Engine must be similar - 7-9000 kW

Ok main gun is the Poland Main C- same as on the Behemoth II - and i love the look of this gun:
so:

16 160mm Cyrogenic cooled Nickle Iron Bullets G1 shaped
7.2m accelerator
the "pylones" at the side and front - is a "mock" for a kind of myomer recoil damping system.... because several GW of recoil power might blow the YJ out of the sky

Edited by Karl Streiger, 06 January 2017 - 06:12 AM.

[Metus regem]

Karl Streiger, on 06 January 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

well started:

first the "canon" YJ seems to be to small - loaded weight of 30t must be near the Super Stallion - minus the room for the cargo - but the blades need to be that big.
Engine must be similar - 7-9000 kW

Ok main gun is the Poland Main C- same as on the Behemoth II - and i love the look of this gun:
so:

16 160mm Cyrogenic cooled Nickle Iron Bullets G1 shaped
7.2m accelerator
the "pylones" at the side and front - is a "mock" for a kind of myomer recoil damping system.... because several GW of recoil power might blow the YJ out of the sky

First off, well done!

Secondly, I'm not sure a guass rifle would actually require recoil damping, as it is using a pulsing magnetic field to pull the round up the barrel, rather than an explosion pushing the round up the barrel.

[Karl Streiger]

Afaik coil guns create enormous recoils.
I think I have read something on atomic rockets - well while typing I think I remember the mass drive propulsion - that could work for asteroids were you have almost unlimited amounts of mass that could be accelerated down a barrel and it would accelerate the asteroid in the other direction.
Need to check the math again but I think the recoil power was larger then the acceleration power (4-20 Gw)

[Karl Streiger]

ok - did i mentioned i start to hate helicopters and flyers?

as usually i thought some time about the Yellow Jacket - as menitoned with 30tons it should need a crew of two, considering the size of the Gauss a sleak two seater like the Apache or Cobra doesn't fit.
OK the Hind is also a dual seater with a wide body, however - the KA-52 or Black Hawk style cockpit seems more fitting:

complete need to rework those "knifes" those should have been a kind of slat armor for the gauss coils, but they are total ugly - must have been drunk (no I wasn't so its the lack of chocolate supplies)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 10 January 2017 - 05:13 AM.