202 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Karl Streiger, on 10 January 2017 - 05:12 AM, said:

ok - did i mentioned i start to hate helicopters and flyers?

as usually i thought some time about the Yellow Jacket - as menitoned with 30tons it should need a crew of two, considering the size of the Gauss a sleak two seater like the Apache or Cobra doesn't fit.
OK the Hind is also a dual seater with a wide body, however - the KA-52 or Black Hawk style cockpit seems more fitting:

complete need to rework those "knifes" those should have been a kind of slat armor for the gauss coils, but they are total ugly - must have been drunk (no I wasn't so its the lack of chocolate supplies)

Again, fantastic work, I am really looking forward to see it when it's done.

[Karl Streiger]

Metus regem, on 10 January 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

Again, fantastic work, I am really looking forward to see it when it's done.

as usually I'm now at a point were I destroy my work and start anew
the placement of the Gauss in the bottom seems impractical - considering the angle of incoming fire the high reactive coils of the gauss are not know to handle damage very well.

It also makes targeting more dificult - i mean its a "real" gauss with ranges of several kilometers you need a sophisticated tracking and targeting system - so a big PESA/AESA... laser ir.....

the next is armor - the front of the YLJA is well armored ... my "Airwolf" look doesn't feel armored enough.

first idea was to place it in those slits left right. however while searching for some ideas to find some solutions - i found the RAMICS

A asymetrical placement of the Gauss with some minimalistic swivel abilities and the sensor, capacitor stuff on the other side.
Only remaining question - keep the double seats on the same level (like it is now) or make a "classical" combat helicopter with seats behind (might look ankward with the gauss on one side and the tandam seats on the other - need to test)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 13 January 2017 - 06:56 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Raw 2nd Version:
Doesn't look anymore like the BT Yellow Jacket - sry for that

[Metus regem]

Karl Streiger, on 18 January 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

Raw 2nd Version:
Doesn't look anymore like the BT Yellow Jacket - sry for that

Not bad, but I think having half the vehicle's weight so far off to one side might cause flight stability issues...

Also since you are willing to go with a non traditional look, perhaps look at using the V-22 Osprey as an inspiration as far as rotor and tail set up? I suggest it, as when I look at your design so far, I get a very strong V-22 feel.

Spoiler

[Karl Streiger]

Good idea also thought a tilt rotor might add more stability. Yasha style
About the weight: it is only the accelrator, storrage banks, ammunition and coolant, as well as sensors move to the other side

I also tried to think about variants RAC 5, Arrow IV and a asymetrical loadout might work better in those cases

[Metus regem]

Karl Streiger, on 19 January 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

Good idea also thought a tilt rotor might add more stability. Yasha style
About the weight: it is only the accelrator, storrage banks, ammunition and coolant, as well as sensors move to the other side

I also tried to think about variants RAC 5, Arrow IV and a asymetrical loadout might work better in those cases

When it comes to the Arrow IV version, I would think perhaps rotary storage in side the body for the missiles with all guidance, tracking and FCS located with in the nose would make sense, for example:

Spoiler

[Karl Streiger]

While I was able to make some Arrow IVs after "designing" Long Tom and Sniper ammunition, i still don't find a gripe on the Yellow Jacket.

If somebody might draw a rough sketch it would help much - however things to consider:
the gauss is huge - thx to recoil we want a small caliber weapon causing a very long accelerator - with 30ton loaded weight the yellow jacket is hardly the size of a "Apache" how it is "designed" in the TRO.
its more in line with the Mi-26 or CH-53:
well last not least that thing should take some heavy fire so armor plating should be visible..... of course you have a fragile gauss and the placement at the bottom means that the Gauss is the first thing that is hit when you choper get fire from the ground....

maybe a twin boom - helicopter - with an exotic rotor layout might look good but - I'm cueless - because it would not look like the insect the Yellow Jacket is named of.

However during this creative crisis I did take the other question mark - the PPC


a particle beam weapon - accelerates particles near the speed of light - in theory.
beam - where as all games did make a kind of plasma weapon out of the PPC.

Well as usual the "solution" might be a mix of both. Consider that the PPC fire heavy mercury ions - with a classic accelerator we might have a bunch of those ions that simple "smash" their way through atmosphere

the beam is focused my a magnet.
Another working method might be used for the ER-PPC.... a laser is used to "ionize" the path of the particles.
With smaller diameter the weapon uses more smaller accelerators that are able to accelerate those ions a bit more.... insert more technobable here.

[Karl Streiger]

Ok well I did some math for the PPC and found interesting stuff. I didn't keep in mind that the acceleration of an atom still needs to respect physics.
So a 3m accelerator that might be able to project particles with > 10km/s might be impossible.
So two ways:

Either increase the number of accelerated particles and using lower velocity
For example for the 16,5mm Beam Diameter its 3g mercury atoms and 40,000m/s and 3.2m accelerator
or use a different accelerator profile (for example a helix or a spiral - 3.2m lenght and some loops might create a 20m accelerator this would allow higher velocitys say 100,000m/s and 0.4g atoms

of course the longer accelerator the higher the velocity but you would need a warship to mount them

[Karl Streiger]

so nothing new from the flying wasp front.... third project:


make a guess....

here s a tip but now its to easy:

Spoiler

Edited by Karl Streiger, 22 February 2017 - 07:29 AM.

[Metus regem]

Karl Streiger, on 21 February 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

so nothing new from the flying wasp front.... third project:


make a guess....

here s a tip but now its to easy:

Spoiler

That's one of the meanest tanks in CBT....

[Karl Streiger]

Metus regem, on 21 February 2017 - 09:50 AM, said:

That's one of the meanest tanks in CBT....

yep - the Schreck



as my Hetzer this tank will also exceed the "lore" size by a margine.
Reason is the ground preassure. thing weight 80tons - with those tracks it has only 0.8kg/cm² (must be 11 PSI) this is average for a tank.
the "first version" and lore size had a ground pressure of >3kg/cm²

....some stuff about PPCs... after discussing stuff with some guys from bg.battletech
I have two options for those
either a RFQ - a linear accelerator - really compact - issue is the "short" lenght of the accelerator so the maximum v0 must be around 50km/s - so every PPC shot will use 9g of matter.

the other option is somehow squeeze a cyclotron into the weapon - in this case the v0 is much higher and i only need a tiny spec of matter.

But i really don't know how to put the cyclotron into the "classic" weapon form.

[Metus regem]

Karl Streiger, on 22 February 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

yep - the Schreck



as my Hetzer this tank will also exceed the "lore" size by a margine.
Reason is the ground preassure. thing weight 80tons - with those tracks it has only 0.8kg/cm² (must be 11 PSI) this is average for a tank.
the "first version" and lore size had a ground pressure of >3kg/cm²

....some stuff about PPCs... after discussing stuff with some guys from bg.battletech
I have two options for those
either a RFQ - a linear accelerator - really compact - issue is the "short" lenght of the accelerator so the maximum v0 must be around 50km/s - so every PPC shot will use 9g of matter.

the other option is somehow squeeze a cyclotron into the weapon - in this case the v0 is much higher and i only need a tiny spec of matter.

But i really don't know how to put the cyclotron into the "classic" weapon form.

Yea, I can't really help with that side of things... but I will say this, BT needs a bit of an overhaul with a lot of it's designs...

[Karl Streiger]

So another step for the Schreck - but i start to get familiar with the work process.... so the Yellow Jacket might be the next

[Tordin]

Karl Streiger, on 27 October 2016 - 02:49 AM, said:

Some pictures about scale: I used some reference models from the Sketchup 3D Warehouse.





The Banshee has a total hight (upper side of the cockpit ~ 14m)
I know in lore based on the 3039 TRO it should be around 15.2m but the MWO Banshee is more massive, with shorter legs.

When I look at that picture and thinking about what some skeptics (pessimists IMO) say about the uselessness of mechs in real life if they ever could be produced. And they say tanks could easly take out their legs and make em fall, stumble made handicapped severly.
Well looking at those different tanks barrels and possible size of their guns projectiles, I do wonder how much the Banshees legs can withstand regarding the kinetic force of those guns.
Because it looks like they can take alot, especially since its an Assault class mechs, lighter mechs might be easlier crippled or the fastest light mechs might be legged easly but harder to hit. Taking into account the different tank guns kinetic damage/ force/ velocity and the banshees type of armor (reactive/ standard/ ferro fibrous) and thickness.

Real nice work you have done btw, Karl Alot of interesting stuff!

Edited by Tordin, 01 March 2017 - 08:06 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Tordin, on 01 March 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

When I look at that picture and thinking about what some skeptics (pessimists IMO) say about the uselessness of mechs in real life if they ever could be produced. And they say tanks could easly take out their legs and make em fall, stumble made handicapped severly.
Well looking at those different tanks barrels and possible size of their guns projectiles, I do wonder how much the Banshees legs can withstand regarding the kinetic force of those guns.
Because it looks like they can take alot, especially since its an Assault class mechs, lighter mechs might be easlier crippled or the fastest light mechs might be legged easly but harder to hit. Taking into account the different tank guns kinetic damage/ force/ velocity and the banshees type of armor (reactive/ standard/ ferro fibrous) and thickness.

Need to repost the picture with my "Schreck" variant - maybe i should also try to fit all the stuff into the banshee.... ammunition, engine, structure.... because its the last thing that gives you a good idea

The main issue is space - the Schreck for example - I did use GURPS Vehicle Classic Techlevel 10 to "build" the background stats.
First the power for the PPCs is a serious issue. a ppc that fires once every 7.5sec (solaris iv stats) needs a 1.68 MW output of power if you don't have any power loss.
But you have power loss - at least 2 -4 times - accelerator coils, discharge of the capacitors, charging the capacitor, producing energy from the fusion engine.

So a 30MW seems adequate to power 3 PPCs and the drive train and systems - and its big - allmost the whole middle part is the fusion engine and the power generating equipment. half the turret are storrage banks

This don't even include FLiBe coolant tanks - because all the power loss may become heat. There is hardly enough room for armor and radiators - so iI need to "dump" the heat somewhere in the meantime.

The advantage of a Mech might be the option to have much more space to dump excessive heat - and its less vulnerable to attacks from above. Look the Schreck can be neutralized by shooting its radiator areas with a Light Machine Gun.
Another advantage is the "saefty" of the pilot - you don't waste volume for the crew compartment.

Of course the joints are its weak points. the force generated by a Gauss Rifle must bend and break a Mechs leg or knee when the hit comes from the flank.

However - Mechs would not behave like we have it in MWO or other Mechwarrior Games - those are tanks with legs at best. but a Mech is much faster and more mobile (faster? yes faster? the "top speed" is a over simplified value - derivated from "walking/crusiing BP*1.5*3.6 = top speed in km/h.
However - a Mech that makes 5 BP from standing or a Mech that makes 5 BP while moving is a complete difference.

[Karl Streiger]

OK - this is for Metus...you are the expert for attack chopper tactics.

I have spend some hours ??? planing the YellowJacket as mentioned I have issues with the placement of the GaussRifle.
To have it in a kind of turret, like the "original" CBT model seemed like a bad idea.
The Gauss Coils are high volatile minor damage might cause them to explode ripping the helicopter into pieces.

So i tried the Ka52 approach with the gauss in the flank, another experiment placed it into a second tail, another placed it in the center - with the two cockpits on either side - last not least to modify the gauss from a single barrel into 4 smaller accelerators that converge on target. (AC feeling)

However, in the end i realized that i didn't have an idea how a Yellow Jacket tactic would look like.

A typical armament of a Yellow Jacket might include some mast mounted sight system for spotting



some yellow jacket might take the data to fire some seeker missiles in top-attack mode.

the sophisticated active and passive defense systems of a mech might swat them out of air - but at least they would make the mekpilots to look the other way.

the 4th Yellow Jacket however comes from the other direction -


shortly before the obstacles he pulls up the gauss in the "turret" might already be in a position to fire -



the gauss fires as soon as it comes "free" maybe this manoeuvre is automatically and not human operated - similar to the very old "dive recovery system" of the Ju87.
The gunnery officer chooses a target from the "spotter" - when ready they push the button and the Yellow Jacket flies on auto. it climbs in a multi g maneuver - fires the gauss and to pull back into cover in a measure of seconds.

Of course, the Gauss could also be "fixed" mounted - but I think the time the Yellow Jacket is visible is much longer.

So it's not about armor and to keep the gauss in a location where it is safe - but to avoid to get hit by a mix of teamwork, technic, and tactics.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 24 March 2017 - 03:29 AM.

[Metus regem]

Karl Streiger, on 24 March 2017 - 03:29 AM, said:

Spoiler

OK - this is for Metus...you are the expert for attack chopper tactics.

I have spend some hours ??? planing the YellowJacket as mentioned I have issues with the placement of the GaussRifle.
To have it in a kind of turret, like the "original" CBT model seemed like a bad idea.
The Gauss Coils are high volatile minor damage might cause them to explode ripping the helicopter into pieces.

So i tried the Ka52 approach with the gauss in the flank, another experiment placed it into a second tail, another placed it in the center - with the two cockpits on either side - last not least to modify the gauss from a single barrel into 4 smaller accelerators that converge on target. (AC feeling)

However, in the end i realized that i didn't have an idea how a Yellow Jacket tactic would look like.

A typical armament of a Yellow Jacket might include some mast mounted sight system for spotting



some yellow jacket might take the data to fire some seeker missiles in top-attack mode.

the sophisticated active and passive defense systems of a mech might swat them out of air - but at least they would make the mekpilots to look the other way.

the 4th Yellow Jacket however comes from the other direction -


shortly before the obstacles he pulls up the gauss in the "turret" might already be in a position to fire -



the gauss fires as soon as it comes "free" maybe this manoeuvre is automatically and not human operated - similar to the very old "dive recovery system" of the Ju87.
The gunnery officer chooses a target from the "spotter" - when ready they push the button and the Yellow Jacket flies on auto. it climbs in a multi g maneuver - fires the gauss and to pull back into cover in a measure of seconds.

Of course, the Gauss could also be "fixed" mounted - but I think the time the Yellow Jacket is visible is much longer.

So it's not about armor and to keep the gauss in a location where it is safe - but to avoid to get hit by a mix of teamwork, technic, and tactics.

Long and short of it is, I can see this working. What I'd be doing as the pilot, would be M.o.t.E. (Map of the Earth) flying, as in 50m off the deck at 50 knots, keeping my bird below the ridge lines. At the same time we would be receiving combat data from a C3 network (AWACS), so that I could position my bird behind the enemy armour, pop over the ridge-line, my gunner takes a shot, we pop back down and move to another location to do the same thing again. We would also be working in at least a pair, likely 4-6 units, moving around the enemy armour and engaging to force them to turn in another direction, allowing another gunship a shot at the soft, soft rear armour.

That all being said, tactics will differ, depending on the targets as well as our weapons payload.

[Karl Streiger]

Really wanted only to spend a hour but again it were much more - my take on a STK-8S
neither the ERPPC placement nor the Gauss are really finished

Edited by Karl Streiger, 30 March 2017 - 04:16 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

it have to be the 7th or even 8th attempt to create the Yellow Jacket.

At least this time it really looks like an insect.....




at least I might have some stats - two kinds of turbo internal combustion for mutliple fuels - around 3000 kW each. Fuel last for ~2hours - max speed hardly 300kph

Edited by Karl Streiger, 31 March 2017 - 06:43 AM.

[Metus regem]

Karl Streiger, on 31 March 2017 - 05:41 AM, said:

it have to be the 7th or even 8th attempt to create the Yellow Jacket.

At least this time it really looks like an insect.....




at least I might have some stats - two kinds of turbo internal combustion for mutliple fuels - around 3000 kW each. Fuel last for ~2hours - max speed hardly 300kph

Now that is a good look at feel.... Are you going to go with a NOTAR system? Vectored thrust? coaxial rotors? Fantail?




NOTAR


Vectored Thrust



Coaxial Rotors



Fantail