206 replies to this topic

[Shiroi Tsuki]

So I just had a random thought. How would Mechs (in MWO's current timeline) would fare against Modern Military?

If say a Direwolf Daishi was transported in our timeline and eats a Harpoon (AGM-84) right in the CT, would it survive? Or would it shrug it off like you're throwing pebbles on a tank?

Would MWO Lazurs (IS Medium Laser as an example) would completely melt through MBT armor anime style? Or would it take 500 million years before it even pierces through?

Also it's amazing how a 100 ton Atlas can be as huge as ~13 meters when MBTs are only ~2.5 meters tall that weighs in at ~70 tons

Edited by Shiroi Tsuki, 08 October 2016 - 10:11 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Interestingly, standard armor like tanks have a different function in tabletop, and are supposed to be like our current conventional armor's protection. Mechs, as we know, only get crit if their armor is first depleted and start taking internal damage - outside of AP rounds that is. Tanks, however, can be crit through armor. In other words, you can damage internals without fully breaking the armor in the first place.

[Bombast]

If Battletech came to our universe, they lose. Their weapons turn into pop guns and they can't move more then a couple of meters before falling down, while real tank cannons punch straight through the mechs armor, tearing it apart.

If we went to the Battletech universe, they win, because reasons.

It's pretty much the same story that occurs anytime Mecha is compared to 'Real life.'

Edited by Bombast, 08 October 2016 - 09:45 AM.

[RestosIII]

+

Mechs aren't practical. (I have a version of that gif with text somewhere, but I can't find it any more. Gif collection got too big)

[Cub]

Bombast, on 08 October 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

If Battletech came to our universe, they lose. Their weapons turn into pop guns and they can't move more then a couple of meters before falling down, while real tank cannons punch straight through the mechs armor, tearing it apart.

If we went to the Battletech universe, they win, because reasons.

It's pretty much the same story that occurs anytime Mecha is compared to 'Real life.'

What Bombast said, they would warp into our universe and promptly fall over.

[DoctorDetroit]

Depends if battletech standard armor can resist shaped charges. Mechs make more sense if defensive technologies outpaced offensive weapons. Mechs lack of AI and poor targeting systems wouldn't help though.

[Mcgral18]

But what if Mech armour is super protective and stuff, making our conventional weapons worthless!


Either they wreck, or get rekt. There's not much inbetween.

[Novakaine]

Hence why I say we should add vehicle's and aerofighters to this game.
Everyone loves tanks and planes!
Just look at WOT.
PGI is sitting on a literal goldmine and not even mining.
For the life of me I don't understand it.
Somebody please give me a Manticore!

Edited by Novakaine, 08 October 2016 - 10:05 AM.

[martian]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 08 October 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

If say a Direwolf Daishi was transported in our timeline and eats a Harpoon (AGM-88) right in the CT, would it survive?

Are you talking about AGM-84 Harpoon or AGM-88 HARM?

[Shiroi Tsuki]

martian, on 08 October 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

Are you talking about AGM-84 Harpoon or AGM-88 HARM?

I always confuse between the two. Harpoons, yes, the 84s.

[martian]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 08 October 2016 - 10:11 AM, said:

I always confuse between the two. Harpoons, yes, the 84s.

Okay, thanks.

Shiroi Tsuki, on 08 October 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

If say a Direwolf Daishi was transported in our timeline and eats a Harpoon right in the CT, would it survive? Or would it shrug it off like you're throwing pebbles on a tank?

In my opinion, the Daishi pilot would be shaken, but the 'Mech would survive with some loss of armor. After all, the Daishi can survive a direct hit of Arrow IV missile artillery. And 31st century explosives are more powerful than what we have today.

Shiroi Tsuki, on 08 October 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

Would MWO Lazurs (IS Medium Laser as an example) would completely melt through MBT armor anime style? Or would it take 500 million years before it even pierces through?

Medium laser would pierce right through the today's tank armor.

[Snowbluff]

Bombast, on 08 October 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

If Battletech came to our universe, they lose. Their weapons turn into pop guns and they can't move more then a couple of meters before falling down, while real tank cannons punch straight through the mechs armor, tearing it apart.

If we went to the Battletech universe, they win, because reasons.

It's pretty much the same story that occurs anytime Mecha is compared to 'Real life.'

Mech structure is less dense than styrofoam. They wouldn't have any trouble being that large. BT metallurgy is very advanced, and they have very large gyros and neurohelmets to keep balance. Unless you are saying humans can move more than a couple of meters before falling down?

Of course, I don't reckon your statement came from any sort of STEM background, and more like repeating something you heard on the internet.

Edited by Snowbluff, 08 October 2016 - 10:36 AM.

[Mystere]

A large swarm of Locusts would be a very terrifying sight to even the best armies of today. <maniacal >

Edited by Mystere, 08 October 2016 - 10:48 AM.

[Hunka Junk]

Well, in MWO, you can eyeball enemies before the systems pick it up.

The opposite is true in modern warfare.

Dire Wolf v Tomahawk Cruise Missile=fuhgeddaboutit

[Bombast]

Snowbluff, on 08 October 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

Mech structure is less dense than styrofoam. They wouldn't have any trouble being that large. BT metallurgy is very advanced, and they have very large gyros and neurohelmets to keep balance. Unless you are saying humans can move more than a couple of meters before falling down?

Or, you know... common sense.

Half of the battlemechs in 'existence' can almost float on water. They suffer from poor traction, and a crap ton of them have so much vertical surface that the mech would sway in the face of a stiff breeze.

Unless your argument is just 'unobtainium,' in which case Battlemechs still lose because Thor's a personal friend of mine and will destroy any mech that dare traverse the dimensional boundary that separates our realities.

If I seem a bit dismissive about this, it's because the whole thing is a dumb question, right up there with 'Who would win in a fight against Superman and Goku' and 'How many licks to get to the center of a star.' Regardless of any tech or handwaving or argument, the simple fact is the Battletech universe operates on a different rule set then out universe. There's no 'right' answer to the question, because the variables involved don't involve each other.

Anyway...

Snowbluff, on 08 October 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

Of course, I don't reckon your statement came from any sort of STEM background, and more like repeating something you heard on the internet.

So, did I sleep with your mother at some point, or did I do something else to you to deserve a personal insult?

[Dogstar]

It's all down to a basic assumption

If the BT universe is a continuation of ours then mechs are the pinnacle of military technology, despite the ups and downs, ergo they pretty much ignore all our 'low tech' weapons as being almost entirely ineffective.

If the BT universe is something else then you simply cannot compare the two.

Lastly, it's a pretty pointless argument, BT is what it is, no more no less.

Read this too: https://en.wikipedia...Tech#Technology

[Davegt27]

OP I remember thoughts along this idea back in MWII two days

I was trying resolve the idea of these tall Battlemech sticking way up in the sky

it goes counter to modern war

that is above tree top level to thousands of feet things are deadly

in recent years there has been a move away from Mecha to missiles
the cost of developing mechanized vehicles has gone way up

anyway you can go on and on

to answer the OP question we would need to know more about the armor that is used and how much energy it can absorb

[ChaoticUrlond]

Depends on the situation, Tanks can only go so far with fuel and cant traverse many terrains without either becoming bogged down by the environment. Mechs on the other hand would be able to traverse nearly all terrains even combat under water. Modern Day Battle Tank are getting pretty advance but I dont know how far a 120mm Nato round would go through the armor of a Mech. As for the Dire Wolf V Tomahawk Cruise Missile, if the Direwolf pilot knew where the missile was coming from, and had the right equipment such as an LBX cannon the Tomahawk Cruise Missile wouldn't have a chance. Fact that I would love to see Mechs over tanks any day of the week.

[Wintersdark]

Mystere, on 08 October 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

A large swarm of Locusts would be a very terrifying sight to even the best armies of today. <maniacal >

Particularly MWO Locusts. Tearing along over rough terrain at that speed, with heavy machine guns (MWO machine guns are serious business, 2000 rounds weighs a TON after all) and fricken laser death rays.


Of course, ultimately humanoid robots are dumb from a practical angle, but the locust in particular would have a very viable battlefield role.

[Snowbluff]

Bombast, on 08 October 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

Or, you know... common sense.

Half of the battlemechs in 'existence' can almost float on water. They suffer from poor traction, and a crap ton of them have so much vertical surface that the mech would sway in the face of a stiff breeze.

Actually, the physics is wrong there. The traction is a property of friction, which is due to the force of gravity and the mu of the surfaces involved. A well built foot wouldn't have traction issues.

For wind, you're looking at the mass again. Of course mechs are big, but they are also massive. The wind would have to be able to push a lot of mass (although it is given a large area to push against). However, the mechs have gyros literally measuring in tons. Have you ever gotten to hold a spinning bicycle wheel? Imagine strugging against that, but with thousands of times the energy due to the increased massive and power from the fusion engine.

Quote

So, did I sleep with your mother at some point, or did I do something else to you to deserve a personal insult?

I question your knowledge of both the subject matter and science in general. Dismissing the premise out of hand while not knowing why you would do that is simply bothersome.

A real argument would be naval and air power. Mechs are vulnerable to that sort of combat. Tanks ******* suck in general, and mechs are an extension of a similiar concept.