16 replies to this topic

[Ziogualty]

Working on a good counter in Scouting while playing with Steiner: Centurion is my first choice, it feels good! Some of my mates go with Griffin (good too) or Cicadas (don't own the mech so i dunno).

Then i was looking if IS has a counterpart for the streakcrow, and i tried a build for a Kintaro.
It comes out with 5 srm6, 1,5 heat managemnt and 400 ammo.
Couldn't try it thou, because i was just messing in the mechlab and i don't own them.

Do you think it will have a chance? Huntsman incoming, so i would even buy a Kintaro bundle and test it, but i don't see lot of Kintaro in the field (not in FW and honestly it is a rare view even in qick launch) so i would like to hear some opinions before spending 6k gold on it.

Thnx in advance for any comment!

[Taxxian]

The Griffin gives you much better hardpoints and the ECM option, Kintaro will most likely disappoint you...

Counter to Streak crows?

Crab 20 5 MPL XL350:
Just look them in the eye and shoot their upper leg actuators... they die so incredibly quickly... if they shoot the SSRMs from straight ahead the damage will spread all over your mech... you can kill 3 or 4 in a row this way^^

[Spheroid]

The Griffin is flat out better for scouting. I would not recommend spending MC ever on the Kintaro. If you must spend money on it get the package from the gift store where it is always a better deal.

There probably will be a medium mech sale to coincide with the Huntsman release. If able buy Kintaros for c-bills then. Not for real money!

The Kintaro-18 has several problems. The hardpoints are spread all over the mech leading to convergence problems when leading and the CT missile hardpoint prevents employing artemis if you use SRM6s. I have a 5x ASRM4 build which interesting and not bad, but I still prefer the Griffin-2N. Also the Griffin twists and turns better which is huge in a brawl. To get the best grouping I run arm-lock which further worsens the disparity.

Still better than Centurion in my opinion though. The guy above me had the right idea though, pulse Crabs murder Stormcrows.

Edited by Spheroid, 12 October 2016 - 08:48 PM.

[BearFlag]

Awww, poor Kintaro. Actually, Scout mode is about the only home for Kintaros. Let's compare with the Griffin.

Same armor. Check.

Same weight. Check.

Same max engine. Check (except the GB).

Jump jets. Advantage Griffin.

Hard points. Advantage Kintaro. EVERY Kintaro has more hard points than ANY Griffin.

In practice the two end up with differing but complementary builds. The Grif more nimble, the Kintaro harder hitting. The Kintaro can engine up and be just as fast as the Griffin. The Griffin can engine down but still not match a similarly slow Kintaro's output. Why do either? The KTO is definitely more niche than the versatile Griffin, but still has a role.

Still, I highly recommend the Griffin because of its versatility and the large number of pilots to give advice. The Kintaro is lethal, but less forgiving ... and few drive it.

Edited by BearFlag, 12 October 2016 - 07:19 PM.

[LordNothing]

only if you dont put on lerms.

[z3a1ot]

Griffin with ECM is your best choice IMO. But if you opt for Kintaro I suggest putting srms 4 for dps purposes.

[Ziogualty]

Thnx for all the answers. All interesting and useful!
Let's then see how the Huntsman perform, meanwhile i'll keep an eye on both griffins and Kintaros prices.

[ice trey]

Myself, I'd throw my chips in with the Kintaro.

Not for any meta reasons... just simply that it's nice to see something other than the same ten builds on a map.

One Mech that is often underestimated that few people ever take, but I've had successes with, is the Trebuchet. More specifically, the 5N, which I'd rebuilt as a sort of tweak to the canon (but not included) 5S. Swap the LRMs with SRM6 racks, plop in Endo, Case, and DHS... Maybe AMS if you like, and fill the rest up with MLs. It's your choice if you want to do Artemis, but a the knife-fighting ranges I've used it at, it usually doesn't matter that much. Luckily, not needing an XL or a change in engine keeps the conversion cheap, but there would be enough room if you wanted to change the MLs to MPLs.

Edited by ice trey, 13 October 2016 - 03:21 AM.

[Simbacca]

I use my Griffin-1N(P) for scouting. A little on the slower side (running XL280) - but it is configured to fulfill a number of missions.

I also found the Shadow Hawk "The Grey Death" Hero Mech (running XL300) to do well in scouting mode.

And the Wolverine-7K running an XL350 (for speed) does very well in scouting mode.

But with that said, I stick to my Griffin-1N(P) due to the Phoenix mech bonus for loyalty points.

Edited by Simbacca, 13 October 2016 - 02:07 PM.

[Willard Phule]

Considering the #1 gripe that IS pilots have in scouting is the StreakCrow, one would think you'd prefer a defense against that. ECM is the way to go.

Unless, however, you'd like to help your team by providing them with some "long range support," the Kintaro is definitely the way to go. Bring LRMs to scouting, they'll appreciate all the expertly aimed firepower.

[Dee Eight]

The trick to defeating streak crows is to keep the range beyond 400 meters. ECM isn't really a guaranteed counter as anyone using a streak crow is also running an active probe already, probably loaded a UAV into a consumables slot, and might even have a TAG laser instead of a C-ERML or C-SPL in the head. And the problem isn't defeating one crow, its 3 or 4 together. 15 S-SRM6s will obliterate most medium mechs.

[Colonel Clunge]

Taxxian, on 12 October 2016 - 03:18 AM, said:

The Griffin gives you much better hardpoints and the ECM option, Kintaro will most likely disappoint you...

Counter to Streak crows?

Crab 20 5 MPL XL350:
Just look them in the eye and shoot their upper leg actuators... they die so incredibly quickly... if they shoot the SSRMs from straight ahead the damage will spread all over your mech... you can kill 3 or 4 in a row this way^^

Does this really work? How many alphas do you need to hit their legs with before they die? I seem to get annihilated in a few seconds of face time with the Crows. Do you win much in Scouting cos I can count on one hand the number of times I've won (fully accepting that that is probably down to my shoddy piloting skills....)

[Daggett]

I have not played scouting much, but in general combat i fell in love for flamers.

3-4 of 'em need only a few seconds to bring the crow to 90% heat, dramatically reducing it's DPS and very often brings them into shutdown. If you use the terrain well you even have a chance to heat 'em up before they have a chance to take their first alpha.

Then you have quite some time to kill the hot crow with your own weapons.
Problem is that there are not that many IS lights/mediums which can carry at least 3 Flamers and have enough hardpoints left for some serious firepower. And you probably also need some heatsinks to compensate your own flamer's heat.

Personally i'd try a HBK-4P with 3 Flamers, 6 Small Pulse Lasers, 18 DHS and a STD-270 engine like this:
Flamer HBK-4P

If you torso-twist well you can use your whole left side as a your shield and only lose 1 flamer and some HS. And if you aim well too, you can seriously cripple the Stormcrow with only 3 alphas or kill it with 4 alphas. With all quirks, skills and modules applied this can take only a few seconds because your lasers do fire about every 2s.

With some skill you can even keep two crows hot for quite some time. And of cause you can not only heat up Stormcrows...

Edited by Daggett, 17 October 2016 - 06:55 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Colonel Clunge, on 17 October 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

Does this really work? How many alphas do you need to hit their legs with before they die? I seem to get annihilated in a few seconds of face time with the Crows. Do you win much in Scouting cos I can count on one hand the number of times I've won (fully accepting that that is probably down to my shoddy piloting skills....)

XL crab would be bad for you. If you had to use a Crab use an STD 250 and 6 mpls on the 27B. Clan pilots who aren't just running some terribad streak build will rip off the side torso on your Crab by the time you get out 2 shots, and the Crab doesn't have the firepower to take out a single leg in two alphas.

Your best bet would be STD275 Griffin 2n with ECM and quad artemis SRM6 or a Hunchback 4SP with STD250, 2 ASRM6 and 5 medium lasers.

If you really just wanted a laser option, go with the Hunchback instead of the Crab, 9 lasers is better than 5 or 6.

Builds in order of best to worst:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eceb9db37d562fa
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3f5820522d198e6
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7847d6622d0ddc5

Don't ever bring an XL to scouting if you are IS. Coordinated JF teams will XL check you hard, my 4 man team alone has won matches without the enemy getting out 100 points of combined damage due to them all running XLs and their lack of proper coordination.

[Ziogualty]

So Huntsman is out, and people start posting a build with 8 Srm launchers.
Things are going to be "interesting" very soon to find a good counter for it.

Edited by Attank, 18 October 2016 - 03:18 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Dee Eight, on 17 October 2016 - 04:12 AM, said:

The trick to defeating streak crows is to keep the range beyond 400 meters. ECM isn't really a guaranteed counter as anyone using a streak crow is also running an active probe already, probably loaded a UAV into a consumables slot, and might even have a TAG laser instead of a C-ERML or C-SPL in the head. And the problem isn't defeating one crow, its 3 or 4 together. 15 S-SRM6s will obliterate most medium mechs.

Unless, of course, the guy with the streaks ISN'T a new player in a free mech and has actually mounted modules. SSRM6 range helps significantly.

[Crockdaddy]

Dee Eight, on 17 October 2016 - 04:12 AM, said:

The trick to defeating streak crows is to keep the range beyond 400 meters. ECM isn't really a guaranteed counter as anyone using a streak crow is also running an active probe already, probably loaded a UAV into a consumables slot, and might even have a TAG laser instead of a C-ERML or C-SPL in the head. And the problem isn't defeating one crow, its 3 or 4 together. 15 S-SRM6s will obliterate most medium mechs.

There are several paths to defeating SSRM crows which if one searches has been documented fairly well in this very sub-forum.

2 - Griffin 2N
2 - Crab27L? (which ever is the dual AMS variant)

Legs legs legs.

If you are puggin along ... keep a fully loaded SRM Griffin handy or a MPL Crab ... don't overheat and stick with the group.

PS, there are many combo's which work effectively against SSRMs but unfortunately fast lights isn't one unless you are intel gathering only and play keep away until all rush for the dropship at the end.

What is harder to fight are the SPL Crows but again focus fire is key and as usual OP team work PGI pls nerf