118 replies to this topic

[Yogge Mothi]

So, I love my big fat wolves. I love the way they slowly waddle into battle. I love the way they eat other mechs alive in a matter of seconds. It's adorable (Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure this is why they are so fat.). I am also looking forward to welcoming their neon purple brother to the ranks next month.

Unfortunately, there are now big muscly bears out there. Unlike the wolves, these bears can run into battle and mount almost as much weaponry as the big fat wolves. On top of having 33% more vroom, they also have these things called structure quirks that make them less squishy than the big fat wolves. In fact, the only quirk the dire wolf has available is a -2 armor quirk should you choose to shoot a laser from your forehead. Again, adorable.

If the big muscly bears were more restricted to short-range builds than the big fat wolves, I'd be okay with this. After all, brawlers need a little more staying power than mid- and long-range mechs. However, kodiaks are just as capable with ballistics and lasers as the dire wolf. In fact, and I gag when I say this, they're even better than dire wolves at lrming (Seriously ppl, don't lrm w/ 100t assault mechs!).

So, why can't the big fat wolves get some love via these quirky things? Being the slowest, least maneuverable mech in the game is tough enough already. I even feel for the royal crustaceans and world-toting titans on the IS side, since they have been placed in the kodiak's shadow as well. At least they have some quirks to call their own, though. The dire wolf has nothing.

Edited by Yogge Mothi, 12 October 2016 - 11:39 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Swap their Torso twist distances, remove all quirks from the 3

[RestosIII]

I'd be fine if we just got bonuses to all turtleback mechs so that weapons fire from above (eg. LRMs) would do lessened damage. PGI PLZ.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mcgral18, on 12 October 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

Swap their Torso twist distances, remove all quirks from the 3

This would help, but still wouldn't fix the problem.

[Mcgral18]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 October 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

This would help, but still wouldn't fix the problem.

Baby steps


And iteration...right, we don't get that.
Well, pray to RNGeesus for the dartboard to strike true

[Felicitatem Parco]

I have been driving Wolfies for the last few days... and the only reason I don't feel like a detriment to the team is because I am goofing around and not caring. If I were trying to win, I would be using my Direwolves as scrap material to maintain my Kodiaks

[mogs01gt]

humanoid figure vs barn door...humanoid will always win.

[Yogge Mothi]

mogs01gt, on 12 October 2016 - 11:58 AM, said:

humanoid figure vs barn door...humanoid will always win.

This is kind of my point. The dire wolf has an inherent flaw in it's barn-door-iness, yet the kodiak is the one with the positive structure quirks. Aren't quirks supposed to be the balancing factor for design flaws? Seems to be more than a little backwards the way it's currently set up.

Edited by Yogge Mothi, 12 October 2016 - 12:17 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Don't you know. All Omnimechs are OP and must suffer harsh build restrictions and next to no quirks because they have the option to switch out omnipods.

On a serious note, I don't really feel that the Direwolf is any less powerful than the Kodiak. Except for the movement profile, there is generally nothing a Kodiak can do that a Direwolf can't do better mostly due to the fact it CAN actually swap around omnipods to customize the hardpoint locations. Overall they seem pretty balanced to me and both are dangerous.

I will say that if you take into account fun factor which has nothing, zip, zero to do with balance, the Kodiak is alot more fun to play.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Mcgral18, on 12 October 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

Baby steps


And iteration...right, we don't get that.
Well, pray to RNGeesus for the dartboard to strike true

I dont think Nerfclear Missles come in the payload labeled "Baby Steps".

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Viktor Drake, on 12 October 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

Except for the movement profile, there is generally nothing a Kodiak can do that a Direwolf can't do better mostly due to the fact it CAN actually swap around omnipods to customize the hardpoint locations.

Being able to swap omnipods is only a big thing if you are stuck with poor hardpoints in the first place, which the KDK-3 is not, and it certainly isn't worth losing the ability to modify your engine. Trust me, if the Whale Prime was a battlemech, it wouldn't be having as much trouble as it does now.

[invernomuto]

mogs01gt, on 12 October 2016 - 11:58 AM, said:

humanoid figure vs barn door...humanoid will always win.

But bar doors are cooler .

About the Dire, I advocate structure quirk like the Atlas to compensate for its slow velocity...

Edited by invernomuto, 12 October 2016 - 12:38 PM.

[RestosIII]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 October 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:

Being able to swap omnipods is only a big thing if you are stuck with poor hardpoints in the first place, which the KDK-3 is not, and it certainly isn't worth losing the ability to modify your engine. Trust me, if the Whale Prime was a battlemech, it wouldn't be having as much trouble as it does now.

That, and the Kodiak can spread damage. The Dire Wolf can't spread damage by any means compared to it. If someone wants your CT gone and have a TINY bit of aiming skill, they're hitting that CT. Not so with the Kodiak.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

RestosIII, on 12 October 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

That, and the Kodiak can spread damage. The Dire Wolf can't spread damage by any means compared to it. If someone wants your CT gone and have a TINY bit of aiming skill, they're hitting that CT. Not so with the Kodiak.

You posted twice so far... But... I fail to see any epic anime memes... I am disappoint!

[RestosIII]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 12 October 2016 - 12:44 PM, said:

You posted twice so far... But... I fail to see any epic anime memes... I am disappoint!

Limiting the supply raises demand. Basic economics. But since you asked...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

RestosIII, on 12 October 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

That, and the Kodiak can spread damage. The Dire Wolf can't spread damage by any means compared to it. If someone wants your CT gone and have a TINY bit of aiming skill, they're hitting that CT. Not so with the Kodiak.

Naw, they are about equal, and for some configurations on both mechs (any asym build with Gauss in the side) the CT is the preferred area to take damage. The only problem for the Dire is the limited twist that only allows you to spread damage to an extent (but even with it, it spreads better than I think people give it credit).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 October 2016 - 12:46 PM.

[FupDup]

Remember when the Daishi was the objectively best assault mech in the game?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

Oh how the mighty have fallen, and oh how the power has crept.

[RestosIII]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 October 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

Naw, they are about equal, and for some configurations on both mechs (any asym build with Gauss in the side) the CT is the preferred area to take damage. The only problem for the Dire is the limited twist that only allows you to spread damage to an extent (but even with it, it spreads better than I think people give it credit).

Dires don't really have major shield arms like a humanoid mech does, so it'll never be as good at spreading damage.

[Tristan Winter]

Yeah, the problem, like McGral says, is that there's no iterative balancing. In a perfect world (or... in a game where balancing was handled reasonably well), there would at least be constant monthly changes to quirks and weapon tuning. Not major stuff, but constant, minor changes.

So the problem is that we have to guess what the perfect solution is, and try to get it right off the bat.

I have a feeling that the Dire Wolf doesn't really need a lot of quirks. The only reason the DW needs quirks is because the Kodiak has quirks. Before the Kodiak, the DW was doing quite well. Maybe it struggled against the AC5 Mauler or something, but I think it was a great mech. This leads me to believe that the problem is Kodiak quirks. But it's going to take a long time before Kodiak owners agree with this, I think.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

RestosIII, on 12 October 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

Dires don't really have major shield arms like a humanoid mech does, so it'll never be as good at spreading damage.

The arms don't really sponge that much, otherwise we would've spent more tonnage armoring up the arms on the Dakka Kodiak. The PokeBear suffers more from arm damage, and even then it is rare.