8 replies to this topic

[Dr Wubs]

Is there any go-to logic for deciding which mechs should have XL engines and which should not?

I keep seeing people talk about how some are xl-friendly and others not.

How do you figure that out?

[Tristan Winter]

Generally, it depends on the shape of the mech. For example, the Catapult has a big, protruding nose, and it usually dies via CT destruction. On top of that, the big nose helps you shield any exposed (stripped) side torso. This makes it XL friendly. The Awesome, on the other hand, is a big, flat barn door. It's virtually impossible to shield any exposed side torso, as it will be visible to any enemy that isn't directly behind you. The Awesome is not very XL friendly, for this reason.

(However, a lot of people still put an XL engine in the AWS-9M, because they figure that the speed and firepower makes up for the lack of durability.)

[Dr Wubs]

Thanks

What about threshholds?

It seems some sizes are optimal and others not. How do you figure that out?

[Mawai]

IS XL friendly mechs tend to be ones with side torsos that you can shield either with arms or by torso twisting. Also, Mechs that have good hit boxes and/or side torso mapping that isn't as obvious and mechs with ST structure quirks that make an XL more survivable.

Some mechs like the Thunderbolt and Jagermech might be less XL friendly based on shape (Jager in particular) but then they have some significant structure quirks which help make them more viable. Awesome's have such a terrible barn door hit box that they receive relatively huge CT and ST structure quirks.

[Bud Crue]

Not sure if its been updated recently but Tamerlin, Tarogato and others have actually done testing to determine the hit boxes. Those with small STs are XL friendly, generally speaking. XL friendliness is also enhanced by fast twist speeds and other factors as well. Consider too how the mech looks from various angles, if the arms are sized and positioned to allow them to shield, etc. Its also a bit subjective based on play style. For example some folks who are used to the alpha then twist play style may hate a mech like the Crab given how much ST you expose on the twist, whereas someone who can master the art of the face tanking wobble might love em

Anyway, here are a couple of cites for hit boxes, though again I have not looked to see if either has been updated, though I noticed that first one included the Viper, so it must have been fairly recently.

http://mwomercs.com/...x-localization/
http://mwomercs.com/...box-repository/

[Tristan Winter]

Dr Wubs, on 13 October 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

Thanks
What about threshholds?
It seems some sizes are optimal and others not. How do you figure that out?

Generally, you want to put an XL engine on every mech below 45 tons, and most mechs at 45 tons. At 50 tons and above, it gets tricky.

There are several different factors, such as the number of hardpoints, for example. If a mech has few hardpoints, it's going to have a few big weapons instead of lots of smaller weapons. Big weapons are heavy, so this means it will only have room for a small STD engine or a decent sized XL engine. Since most popular mechs in MWO are pretty fast, this effectively means that mechs with fewer hardpoints tend to go with XL engines, instead of running around at 50 kph with mediocre firepower.

[Y E O N N E]

Dr Wubs, on 13 October 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

Is there any go-to logic for deciding which mechs should have XL engines and which should not?

I keep seeing people talk about how some are xl-friendly and others not.

How do you figure that out?

Three ways.

1. Your experience tells you that the 'Mech you are driving is killed by Center Torso destruction more often than not and you rarely lose sides. Whatever that build is, is going to be XL-friendly unless it involves twin UAC/5, an AC/20, or a Gauss in the side torso. Example 'Mech: BJ-1X with standard lasers will pretty much always get center-cored by nature of being squishy and having to stare a little bit. This is XL-friendly.

2. The 'Mech has narrow hit-boxes viewed from the front; this means you can very easily spread damage across all three torso components with minimal motion. Drawback to this form-factor is that these 'Mechs tend to be long (exceptions would be the Black Knight or Gargoyle) and so the side torsos are vulnerable from the sides. This makes it dependent upon speed and agility to keep the front toward the enemy, which rules out a 'Mech like the Stalker. Example 'Mech: Marauder; can actually even spread damage to arms from the front. Catapult, too.

3. Big shield arms with good yaw angle; these 'Mechs tend to be easy to select any torso component on from the front, but when they turn to the side the arms get in the way and absorb the damage almost completely. Example 'Mech: Banshee; pretty much the poster-'Mech for Inner Sphere XL-friendliness.

[Alek Ituin]

Dr Wubs, on 13 October 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

Thanks

What about threshholds?

It seems some sizes are optimal and others not. How do you figure that out?

250's and 270-275's are two good engine sizes for Mediums and up. They often fall under max engine ratings for smaller Mechs, and 250+ engines include all 10 heat sinks in the engine, making them TruDubs (2.0 heat/sec dissipation) when using DHS. There are other considerations, like picking the highest rated engine per tonnage band, but that's if you don't plan on engine sharing. If you are planning on sharing engines, you have to balance engine rating vs tonnage band vs engine cap, while taking both speed and loadout tonnage in to account.

You'll rarely see or use a 300+ engine, and the 400's are almost never used (because almost nothing can use them).

Edited by Alek Ituin, 13 October 2016 - 03:52 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Dr Wubs, on 13 October 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

Thanks

What about threshholds?

It seems some sizes are optimal and others not. How do you figure that out?

Depends on what range you intend to engage at more than anything else; this indirectly determines weapon weight (longer range are almost always heavier) and how dependent you are on your ability to quickly close distance.

Similarly, preferred engagement range often depends on hard-points. 'Mechs with high mounts, like the Blackjack, are much better from a good distance while a Phoenix Hawk, with its low-slung arms, will probably want to be closer to minimize the Blackjack's advantage.

The overriding rule of thumb is to always bring the biggest engine you can for the payload you want to deploy. In the Blackjack's case, the optimum engine is the 225 (and it even works well in STD configuration, not just XL). Phoenix Hawk, I would hesitate to go lower than 265, and would try for 300.

Another rule of thumb is, as I mentioned above, to have more speed if your 'Mech is long. That means where I'm comfortable running my 60 ton Rifleman around at 75.5 kph on 265, I definitely want to get my 65 ton Catapults and 75 ton Marauders up to 80 kph because they need the agility to keep front-forward, which means a 300 and a 350, respectively.