39 replies to this topic

[Clydewinder]

cazidin, on 13 October 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

PGI logic: the fewer hardpoints you have, the more quirks you need to compensate.

Tell that to the HGN-733P

[Y E O N N E]

Navid A1, on 13 October 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

I gave up finding logic in PGI decisions on quirks long ago.
It just does not make sense.

Just think about the logic that gives the KDK-3 durability quirks, but keeps that Viper bone dry with minor quirks locked behind 8/8 set contradicting omnimech customization.
yup... no logic is the answer!

I actually asked Russ on Twitter. I am hoping to get a response, I usually get one when I ask him things.

[cazidin]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 October 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

[/size]

This mech will get structure quirks and missile cooldown quirks when it is released.

#PGI

No. It will get SRM velocity quirks.

[Navid A1]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

I actually asked Russ on Twitter. I am hoping to get a response, I usually get one when I ask him things.

haha...

Yeah, that is what I was thinking... a year ago!

You'll soon realize the truth.

Let me tell you this: there is absolutely 0% chance that you get a response on that.... this question has been asked from Russ on twitter many many times... yours is just about number 200 in the line!

[Gladius Vittoris]

JadePanther, on 13 October 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

really PGI? REALLY?

the huntsman HMN-C has 3 missile hardpoint with 2 stock racks.. and it gets LRM quirks.

But the Night GYR NTG-D has 4 missile hardpoints with 4 stock LRM20's and it doesnt get any LRM quirks.. Instead it got energy quirks for the 2 backup energy hardpionts..

WHY? JUST WHY? WHY? REALLY WHY? WHY WHY WHY? SERIOSULY!! WHY? WHY? HANG ON A SEC..... I WONDER...... CAN I ASK WHY????

Really Jadepanther, REALLY?

Four year in the game and you haven't realized yet that few hardpoints need quirks, while much more hardpoints can be used to boat...and so don't need quirks?

[AC]

Navid A1, on 13 October 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

I gave up finding logic in PGI decisions on quirks long ago.
It just does not make sense.

Just think about the logic that gives the KDK-3 durability quirks, but keeps that Viper bone dry with minor quirks locked behind 8/8 set contradicting omnimech customization.
yup... no logic is the answer!

I don't think PGI understand how detrimental power creep can be to a game. Power creep kills new players because they come in and get obliterated. Hell, old players are getting obliterated. I saw the end times were nigh when they released certain variants of the Arctic Cheetah. Since they busted the lid off of Pandoras Power Creep Box, they have no choice but to continue it to try and sell mechs.

[JadePanther]

Bud Crue, on 13 October 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Sheeit. It could be a lot worse. If could be a Phoenix Hawk and its sweet, sweet machine gun quirks.

Dont remind me plz...

[Weeny Machine]

Clydewinder, on 13 October 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

Tell that to the HGN-733P

..or the Huginn...

[jjm1]

cazidin, on 13 October 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

PGI logic: the fewer hardpoints you have, the more quirks you need to compensate.

Exactly. Like the Myst Lynx and the Shadow Cat. Their quirks are off the charts.

[Revis Volek]

cazidin, on 13 October 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

PGI logic: the fewer hardpoints you have, the more quirks you need to compensate.

If they actually used that logic (or logic in general) i dont the game would be the laughing stock it is today.

AC, on 13 October 2016 - 10:08 PM, said:

I don't think PGI understand how detrimental power creep can be to a game. Power creep kills new players because they come in and get obliterated. Hell, old players are getting obliterated. I saw the end times were nigh when they released certain variants of the Arctic Cheetah. Since they busted the lid off of Pandoras Power Creep Box, they have no choice but to continue it to try and sell mechs.

PGI says no power creep here, meanwhile the ACH eclipsed most other lights (though the rescale was the final nail in that coffin) the DWF has been left in the dust by the KDK and most IS mech are worth taking unless they are uber quirked.


But no power creep here, i dont know what im talking about.

Edited by Revis Volek, 14 October 2016 - 11:02 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

Navid A1, on 13 October 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

I gave up finding logic in PGI decisions on quirks long ago.
It just does not make sense.

Just think about the logic that gives the KDK-3 durability quirks, but keeps that Viper bone dry with minor quirks locked behind 8/8 set contradicting omnimech customization.
yup... no logic is the answer!

Yeah... I mean, PGI did get a lot of quirks right after a bunch of trial and error. But for the last year or so, there have been very few improvements, and the stuff that has happened lately made no sense at all. Them nerfing the CN9-AL out of nowhere, for example, as if that was one of the most OP mechs that needed dealing with.

I sometimes stop and think if we're all being unreasonable, when you read all the criticism in threads like this one, but... the list of inconsistencies is just too long. PGI is making one weird decision after the other, and never going back to fix half of them, unless the players spam Russ' Twitter account. That's actually one of the most important mechanisms in MWO balancing right now. Twitter.

[FupDup]

Tristan Winter, on 14 October 2016 - 11:05 AM, said:

Yeah... I mean, PGI did get a lot of quirks right after a bunch of trial and error. But for the last year or so, there have been very few improvements, and the stuff that has happened lately made no sense at all. Them nerfing the CN9-AL out of nowhere, for example, as if that was one of the most OP mechs that needed dealing with.

I sometimes stop and think if we're all being unreasonable, when you read all the criticism in threads like this one, but... the list of inconsistencies is just too long. PGI is making one weird decision after the other, and never going back to fix half of them, unless the players spam Russ' Twitter account. That's actually one of the most important mechanisms in MWO balancing right now. Twitter.

I honestly think that the very first Quirkening was the best one overall.

Eventually quirks become more and more watered down and generic across the board.

[Revis Volek]

FupDup, on 14 October 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

I honestly think that the very first Quirkening was the best one overall.

Eventually quirks become more and more watered down and generic across the board.

I agree, i think the game was at it best at that point.

Was it perfect? No, but it was way better then the boring, shameful, half assed **** they are putting out now.

Edited by Revis Volek, 14 October 2016 - 11:15 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

FupDup, on 14 October 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

I honestly think that the very first Quirkening was the best one overall.
Eventually quirks become more and more watered down and generic across the board.

The biggest problem with the first quirkening was PGI tried to make the under-performing weapons viable only for the quirked mechs. You would only ever put the AC5 on a DRG-1N, you would only ever put PPCs on the AWS-8Q, etc. (Exaggerating, but you get the point). It also effectively removed mech building for 30% of all mechs, because PGI decided what the quirked weapons would be, and it was pointless to use other weapons.

I didn't prefer the first quirkening at all. We actually have quite good weapon variation right now, except that a few outliers are creating problems.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

RestosIII, on 13 October 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

[FupDup]

Tristan Winter, on 14 October 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

The biggest problem with the first quirkening was PGI tried to make the under-performing weapons viable only for the quirked mechs. You would only ever put the AC5 on a DRG-1N, you would only ever put PPCs on the AWS-8Q, etc. (Exaggerating, but you get the point). It also effectively removed mech building for 30% of all mechs, because PGI decided what the quirked weapons would be, and it was pointless to use other weapons.

I didn't prefer the first quirkening at all. We actually have quite good weapon variation right now, except that a few outliers are creating problems.

It wasn't pointless to use other weapons, because the weapons that got the full quirk benefit weren't always the best weapons. Like, for example, those PPCs. The reason to use other weapons was because those other weapons had better non-quirked stats than the quirked gun base stats.

PGI also did throw you a bone and split up weapon quirks as 50% generic and 50% specific. Finally, agility and structure/armor quirks benefit all builds regardless.


Having 100% purely generic weapon quirks leads to two issues:

1. The weapons with the best base stats are favored. This can be technically addressed with base weapon stats, but this is PGI we're dealing with here.

2. All mechs start to feel identical in role and performance. If Mech A has lower PPC heat and Mech B has lower Medium Laser heat, their roles are slightly different. If Mech A and Mech B both have lower energy heat, there isn't any difference between them.


It certainly wasn't perfect, but it beat the heck out of what we have today. I think that the way to get it closer to perfect was to use weapon families in place of just single weapons.

For example, a "PPC Family" quirk would apply to PPCs, ERPPCs, Light PPCs, and Heavy PPCs. A "Class-10 AC" quirk would apply to AC/10, LB 10-X, HVAC/10, etc.

Edited by FupDup, 14 October 2016 - 11:30 AM.

[Snuggles Time]

You can fit up to 90 LRM tubes on the Night Grrrrr, it doesn't need any help LRM'ing.

[Navid A1]

Snuggles Time, on 14 October 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

You can fit up to 90 LRM tubes on the Night Grrrrr, it doesn't need any help LRM'ing.

lol
90 tubes.
You mean LRM20 jokes?
XD XD
please, don't make us laugh. I bet you think LRM20 is 4 times LRM5... XD XD!

But yes I agree, it does not need LRM quirks. not because it is good at lurming, but because you are not supposed to lurm in that thing.

[Snuggles Time]

Navid A1, on 14 October 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

lol
90 tubes.
You mean LRM20 jokes?
XD XD
please, don't make us laugh. I bet you think LRM20 is 4 times LRM5... XD XD!

But yes I agree, it does not need LRM quirks. not because it is good at lurming, but because you are not supposed to lurm in that thing.

YOU CAN TELL WHAT IM THINKING!!!!!!! OMG WHAT COLOR AM I THINKING ABOUT RIGHT MEOW?!?!??!?

[JadePanther]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 14 October 2016 - 11:19 AM, said:

You dig giant robots!
I dig giant robots!
We dig giant robots!
Chicks dig giant robots!

Nice!

on a worse note the scale pics are out.. hunter wieghs 50ton is as tall as a centi.. PHX hawk weighs 45 tons and is as tall as a black knight.. where's the justice where's the justice?

Edited by JadePanther, 14 October 2016 - 03:29 PM.