232 replies to this topic

[Holmes]

Raeven, on 17 December 2011 - 02:45 PM, said:

I take it back. You definitely kept an eye towards upgrading. What brand motherboard has 9 fricken PCIE slots?

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813130289

6 excuse me. I'm a little drunk. It was more expensive when I bought it.

Another example:

http://www.newegg.co...82E16813128472R

(4 but still.)

Also, look at that original price, and that has less features than the former.

[Red Beard]

You guys wanna take this ******* contest to another thread?

[Raeven]

What, did we get some on your shoes?

[Kristov Kerensky]

Mchawkeye..whoever told ya that they haven't hit the limit on what a console can do..lied. On consoles, there's constant complaints about the system lag..not network, not ping/latency, but actual hardware induced lag because they've pushed the hardware too far with the code. BadCo2 has this problem, BF3 has this problem, CoD has this problem, MW3 has this problem..on the consoles, PS3/Xbox360, they hit the limits with how far they can push the hardware a few years back. I've even heard that Skyrim has this problem from friends who got it on their consoles.

Consoles are limited, it's a function of their design, and the controllers used make them even more limited. Fact, not theory or hatred of consoles, I've owned more the a few of them over the decades, and I usually enjoy the games I get for them..games picked because they ARE arcade games, like the Mortal Kombat series, various racing games(the ones where crashing is not only expected, it's rewarded..love those!), and things like the FF games, simple to play but still having complex storylines.

Now, you can try and convince me otherwise, but I doubt it'll happen, I've worked in the industry and know the limitations of the consoles. I prefer PC games when I want something that's not an arcade game, even prefer to play RPGs on my PC over the console, simply because..they can give me MORE on a PC then a console, more content and better looking content, more control options, and I can just DO more at a single time on the PC then on a console game..even when it's the same damn game on both. Facts, not opinons, that's just how it works. Funny thing is...consoles have been in more homes for longer then the PC has, and the big names in the game publishing world started out making CONSOLE games, not PC..EA, Atari, Activision..they used to make console games before there WAS a home PC market. They branched into the PC market because..and this is the kicker, it was a better device to make better games on. That ain't changed either, top of the line tech is still the PC, best device to design ground breaking and innovative games on. When was the last time you heard of a mod team hoping to break into the console market

[Mchawkeye]

Kristov Kerensky, on 18 December 2011 - 12:16 AM, said:

Mchawkeye..whoever told ya that they haven't hit the limit on what a console can do..lied. On consoles, there's constant complaints about the system lag..not network, not ping/latency, but actual hardware induced lag because they've pushed the hardware too far with the code. BadCo2 has this problem, BF3 has this problem, CoD has this problem, MW3 has this problem..on the consoles, PS3/Xbox360, they hit the limits with how far they can push the hardware a few years back. I've even heard that Skyrim has this problem from friends who got it on their consoles.

Consoles are limited, it's a function of their design, and the controllers used make them even more limited. Fact, not theory or hatred of consoles, I've owned more the a few of them over the decades, and I usually enjoy the games I get for them..games picked because they ARE arcade games, like the Mortal Kombat series, various racing games(the ones where crashing is not only expected, it's rewarded..love those!), and things like the FF games, simple to play but still having complex storylines.

Now, you can try and convince me otherwise, but I doubt it'll happen, I've worked in the industry and know the limitations of the consoles. I prefer PC games when I want something that's not an arcade game, even prefer to play RPGs on my PC over the console, simply because..they can give me MORE on a PC then a console, more content and better looking content, more control options, and I can just DO more at a single time on the PC then on a console game..even when it's the same damn game on both. Facts, not opinons, that's just how it works. Funny thing is...consoles have been in more homes for longer then the PC has, and the big names in the game publishing world started out making CONSOLE games, not PC..EA, Atari, Activision..they used to make console games before there WAS a home PC market. They branched into the PC market because..and this is the kicker, it was a better device to make better games on. That ain't changed either, top of the line tech is still the PC, best device to design ground breaking and innovative games on. When was the last time you heard of a mod team hoping to break into the console market

Right. I think I made it clear on my thoughts regarding PC hardware. if you didn't get it, is suggest you re-read my last post.

As far as console limitations go, your opinion is coming across slightly as a PC fanboy, I think.
When the like of Cliff Bleszinski thinks they can still squeeze power from the xbox, I am frankly more likely to listen to him than you. no offense, I'm sure you are plenty experienced in the industry, but he has helped create some of the biggest games in the history of games. and has no reason to lie to me or anyone, on top of his huge amount of experience making games for consoles; I'm reasonably assured he knows what the smeg he is talking about.
There is no doubt that console hardware has a life span. off course it does. but that doesn't mean that all consoles games are;
a)bad
b)dumbed down and aimed at the ***** mass market and
c)better or worse, in any significant way, than their PC alternatives.
My opinion on this subject is now fully expressed. if you cannot understand it, I apologise for my gross inability to express myself clearly.

Edited by Mchawkeye, 18 December 2011 - 03:51 AM.

[Red Beard]

Kristov Kerensky, on 18 December 2011 - 12:16 AM, said:

On consoles, there's constant complaints about the system lag..not network, not ping/latency, but actual hardware induced lag because they've pushed the hardware too far with the code. BadCo2 has this problem, BF3 has this problem, CoD has this problem, MW3 has this problem..on the consoles.

Now this guy is just making things up to throw mud in the eyes of people he disagrees with. None of those statements are true, to any degree. I have played all of those games but Skyrim, and there is NO lag at all.

The first sign of desperation is when one feels the need to fabricate statements in order to attempt to tear down those they see as their adversaries. I'd say those statements sound very desperate. This gentleman hates it when I have proven him wrong.

[Red Beard]

Raeven, on 17 December 2011 - 10:09 PM, said:

What, did we get some on your shoes?

Well...maybe a little

[Tannhauser Gate]

Thread has turned into a bunch of whining girly men. Sheesh.

As for the OP, there is no question that arcade is OUT for this game. We saw MW's sim roots devolve with MW4 and finally MA. While those are fun games they are less sim and more arcadey (esp MA). This is anologous to playing a Lego Star Wars game. Thats for people who dont care about an immersive sim. But Id have to laugh in their faces if those people thought Lego Star Wars was the best SW game and all future SW games should be more like that. Hell no.

Same with BT and MWO. MWO should be an action sim true to its canon and not an arcade game for casual players under the age of 12. I want gritty grown up, complex, detailed, BT combat. Id be fine with it if MS made another MA for those fans but the vast majority of BT and MW fans want a sim... hands down.

Edited by lakedaemon, 18 December 2011 - 12:28 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Mchawkeye, do you OWN a console, current generation? We've got a PS3, XBox360 and a Wii here in the house, complete with the motion sensor devices all have. They get used daily, both by those of us who live in the house AND by some of the neighborhood kids who come over to play on them with the kids in the house. CoD, MW3, BadCo2, Gears of War 3(can't stand that one myself), get played on a pretty consistant basis by the kids and adults. I've WATCHED them all get laggy, slow down, and play get jerky, the games have pushed the hardware to it's limit and it's a known fact. Go check the forums for the console games, you can see it for yourself how the players are complaining about this issue. Funny you should mention Cliff..a man known for his arcade style game designs...really, that's funny. He's help make some good games, from Unreal on the PC years ago to the GoW3 now out. Can you link where he said they've not hit the limits on consoles? Cause I can't find it, but he's done a lot of interviews over the years and tweets pretty consistantly as well.

And..you really should read some of what Cliff says about the games Epic's made and their aims with them..he pretty much says what myself and others have said, it's a design philosophy that was obivous in the Unreal games on out Don't get me wrong, Unreal on the PC was great, really awesome at the time, but the Unreal Tourny games..seriously..pure arcade FPSers, where Epic made their money, and they now pretty much exclusively work for MS, making console games that continue the easy to play, easy to master, LCD concepts that have made Epic and MS so much money now I don't have a problem, per se, with that game design philosophy, I've played lots of those over the years, still play some, but I do NOT want that for a BTech based game, it's a slap in the gonads, just as MW4 and MA were. That mistake already killed the MW franchise once, do you or anyone else think that doing it again would result in anything positive?

[Mchawkeye]

My word. If you had read any of my posts, you would know that I have a 360. and a PC. and a Laptop. and I play on all of them.

I have experienced lag on my 360. I have experienced lag on my PC. neither of which have been so bad or so frequent to prevent me from enjoying the game.

I did not mention Cliff Bleszinski (or Cliff to you, apparently.) to point out the nature of his game design. if you would care to read my post properly, that might become clear to you.

This was just over a month ago:

http://www.next-gen....o-more-xbox-360

I am done here, on this topic.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Thank you Mchawkeye, I missed that one..same site I was reading his GoW3 interview on no less when I asked for the link (his GoW3 interview is a good read, and I don't even like the game!) And I wasn't meaning to put down Cliff, he's a great developer, I loved Unreal, it was, to me, a FAR better game then Quake2 it competed with. And his actual comments do state they've hit the wall with the consoles, but since they've hit that wall, they are having to find ways to make it do things that they want within those limits. Years of familiarity with the console has given them the ability to do that, but it does come at a cost, push the hardware via code tweaks and you end up creating lag ingame. CoD:MW3 has such an issue with that the devs of it's main competitor, BF3, make public jokes about it...without getting in trouble for those same jokes, because they are truth. GoW3 has this problem, I've seen it, those tweaks and tricks..they come at a cost..

[Pht]

Red Beard, on 16 December 2011 - 08:10 PM, said:

First off, I really was not debating the 70 million USD portion, more like the 7 million units portion. I just cannot see that being realistic.

Why can you not see it being significant? Simply because it doesn't fit your personal view of the gaming world? Or do you have some other justification that makes your claim valid?

Besides which, do you think it is reasonable to think that they took in over 100 million in sales in a smaller market with a small number of sales?

Quote

Not significant. One works only with what the devs put forth.

... Does not follow... screwy logic.

It is quite significant, for a BTUniverse game, especially given that there will apparently be some sort of 'mech specific gameplay that will impact gamers; having to drop a 'mech you're quite specialized into could be a very bad thing.

Quote

Disagree.

I'm having to guess... you're disagreeing about the controller disparity comment?

Sorry, but no console controller can match a mouse and keyboard in an RTS, much less an RTS with depth of gameplay, such as total annihilation or the first supreme commander. There's also the hilarity of thinking a thumbstick can match a mouse in ultimate and humanly useable accuracy and precision in an FPS game. Controllers DO matter.

Mchawkeye, on 17 December 2011 - 04:28 AM, said:

I'm not sure why being easy to use "plug and play" is apparently a bad thing...?

It's not. It's just that plug and play tends to exclude expanded content beyond just playing the game itself, such as mod and map making, and getting to fiddle with the game itself.

[Red Beard]

Wow. You had to really go digging to find all those old comments.

I think I'm done going on about all of that.