14 replies to this topic

[Nerokar]

Hello!

I'm a new pilot. It's my first month on duty. For my first mechs I used blueprints from metamechs. But now I try to understand the mech loadouts a bit better and made the following configuration for my KDK-1 in order to master the chassis:

KDK-1

My thoughts on it:

• An asymetric-build with main weapons on the right side, shielding with the left side
  
• Two weapon groups with ~same effective range
  
• acceptable sync in cooldown (with LPL as leading weapon, because it is ~0,5s slower)
  
• LRMs are there just for suppression fire and doing things while changing position or getting closer
  
• Fighting distance should be ~500m

But as a beginner I'm low on CB and need the help from experts before I burn my virtual money (this is why it runs default xl400 for example).

• Is this configuration worth the money it costs or shall I try other builds like ERML boating?
  
• C ER PPC or C ER LPL? PPC has instant punch and more range but LPL syncs better with C U AC10 and generates less heat per second
  
• Heat is another point. This configuration looks hot on paper... no clue if it works on field... ghost heat should not be the problem.

Thanks for your help!

Edited by Nerokar, 18 October 2016 - 06:05 AM.

[Kimberm1911]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3e857c688367634

This is a standard Gauss Vomit build. It's not quite optimized because I didn't have time to put it together well, but it should be pretty decent. Also, I hate the KDK 1. I sold it before it became available for C-bills I hated it so much. (It's not terrible, but it's not the 2 or 3.)

[Nerokar]

I tried Gauss Vomit... It works, but I cant get used to the Gauss.

Every single match this thing exploded at traiding or when a light shot me while nearly all blues decided that spreading out and let assaults behind is a nice idea :-/

I played a bit more with loadouts and made this *hello heat*... but this is realy expensive for me... (wanted to buy radar depr or my third marauder in the next time)
KDK-1

Is KDK-1 so dependent on Gauss to perform well?

And the hate to KDK-1... I played last games with KDK-3 Godbear... After that every other Assault i played was... well... bad?

[Palfatreos]

Nerokar, on 18 October 2016 - 03:22 AM, said:

Hello!
KDK-1

• acceptable sync in cooldown (with LPL as leading weapon, because it is ~0,5s slower)

The difference is actually bigger then you think. Laser cooldown happend AFTER the burn duration so it:


LPL = 3.09 (cooldown)+1.12 (burn time) = 4.21 sec
c-UAC10 = 2.07 sec (+ time of first volley? dunno it barely noticable and idk if there data on different uac)

• Is this configuration worth the money it costs or shall I try other builds like ERML boating?

KDK-1 (2 x cLPL, 6 x cERML, 1 x cGAUSS, XL385)

The cERML for when you got no heat so you can do a high alpha, If you high on heat only use LPL+cgauss.

Xl400 version

KDK-1 (2 x cLPL, 6 x cERML, 1 x cGAUSS, XL400)

• C ER PPC or C ER LPL? PPC has instant punch and more range but LPL syncs better with C U AC10 and develops less heat per second

c-ERLL: No, personnaly I find it terrible weapon the 1.5 sec burn time just to much.


c-ERPPC: both viable but i find the LPL better suited in your build because reason ya said.

• Heat is another point. This configuration looks hot on paper... no clue if it works on field... ghost heat should not be the problem.

Atleast on paper the heat management shoudn't be bad for *clan standard*. But since you leveling it it might be hotter then you think.

If you wanna stay with you current build say it and i'll see if i can optemise it with the restriction of cbills you have.

Also but your explosive ammo (ac,uac,lrm) in the head>legs first.

EDIT: The KDK-3 is top tier assualt because of the high quad ballistic torso mount. Which shadows his KDK siblings.

Edited by Palfatreos, 18 October 2016 - 06:12 AM.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Try this if you like lasers. Like, really like lasers.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e9e9be1b866edeb

And a shorter range version (with less speed)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3b82f3018d43328

and a fast version of the above build http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f0e02672b5eaeae

Edited by Keshav Murali, 18 October 2016 - 06:16 AM.

[process]

It's mostly going to depend on how you feel and what your play style is. Always keep in mind that Kodiaks are large, high-priority targets, and even with the XL400 engine are still quite slow.

Besides the KDK 3's dakka builds, most effective loadouts work in conjunction with minimizing your exposure -- sniping and brawling builds. At mid range, I tend to get picked apart, since I can't run and gun like medium and heavy skirmishers.

All together, your build is reasonable and useful at all ranges, but in a skirmish the 2 LPL and UAC10 may feel a little anemic compared with other builds you'll find in the mix.

If you want more of a second-line loadout, there's: KDK-1. The LRMs provide your team with some support, but the 6 medium pulse lasers will eat through enemies in a short amount of time, letting you get back into cover to cool off.

You might also want to try this brawling loadout: KDK-1. This build requires patience and is highly situational, and can get hot, but the peak DPS is enormous. The Spirit Bear does brawling a little better, with the UAC20 and 4 ASRM6.

Edited by process, 18 October 2016 - 06:18 AM.

[Nerokar]

The only weapon I dislike(atm) is Gauss.
The only playstyle I try to avoid is brawling as assault. Its just much more fun for me to brawl in Light or medium.

So im not sticking to "my" build. It is just a try of a newbe to set up things

@Palfatreos: Special thanks for clarifications!
@Keshav: Nice builds! But those C XL Engines are expensive... I'll see if I can make them work with xl400
EDIT: @process: as for Palfatreos: Thanks, its the best help to describe WHY a build is good or bad

Edited by Nerokar, 18 October 2016 - 06:35 AM.

[Osama bin Gandhi]

An alternative to your build. I know you don't like gauss, but it's great once you get used to it: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2363d406cfbfea8

The c-LPLs are an awesome weapon, but the 400XL engine is very heavy and the LPLs take up a lot of the remaining tonnage. Trading those for erMLs gives you a chance to upgrade the LRMs so they're a more effective system. You could trade a tonne of ammo for a t-comp in this build.

Edited by Osama bin Ghandi, 18 October 2016 - 06:57 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

The Every-KDK
UAC10 version

I know, I know - never make a jack-of-all-trades 'mech. It's also hot as sin, but with a little trigger discipline it's... not terrible

Or the terribad build I used to Basic it

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 18 October 2016 - 11:14 AM.

[Palfatreos]

Your first KDK-1 build adjusted

Restriction: XL400, no gauss, no brawl

KDK-1(2 x cLPL, 1 x cUAC10, 2 x LRM5, XL400)

• LRM 5 VS other LRMs

You won't see me with LRM mech unles it IS hunchy with lrm 10 quirck because it the only viable on that mech. So i am not experience with LRM.


But i understand you wanna use LRM as surpressing fire creating cockpit shake on your enemy. Therefore LRM5 > bigger LRM.

Short story :

Pro LRM5: lower cooldown, less spread (less wasted ammo), same cockpit shake (impulse on all LRM = 0.15)

Cons LRM5: more vulnarable to AMS since it more spam of small missils instead less spam bigger missils.

For support weapon LRM5 pro's outweight the one con against bigger missil pod.


Long story:
Both reference testing created by 2 seperate person
Long story (IS LRM experience): https://www.mechspec...-test-lrms.8298
Video clan lrm testing:

• Head armor 18->16

head hp on all mech = 15 HP + 16 armor = 31 => dual gaus proof (30) damage.


It very hard and rare that sombody can headshot you because tiny size. Most likely weapon that can deal massive pinpoint short duration weapon is ppc or gaus.

Both weapons will be only dual fired at same time (2 ppc due to ghost heat and 2 gaus because game only allow you fire 2 at time even if you have 3).

• TC2->TC1

The TC1 has the best stat/tonnage ratio each higher TC give a dimishing return on stat/tonnage ratio

• Ammo placement

Explosive ammo (uac,ac,lrm,srm,ssrm) should be placed on place where people less likely to open you parts. Head->Legs->CT/RT/LT.


Gaus the exception to the rule, gaus ammo don't explode BUT the gaus weapon does explode and it only has 5 hp instead of 10 hp unlike other weapons. So you wanna put alot gaus ammo (maybe even 1/2 gaus ammo if you got enough free slots) in the same place as the gaus weapon to buffer the damage

• Alternative: reduce both leg armor for more left arm armor for more shielding option.

Restriction: XL400, no brawl

KDK-1(2 x cLPL,1 x cGAUSS, 4 x ML,XL400)

Reason why you would see alot people reccomend gaus/laser instead uac/laser because gaus has best damage/heat ratio which help on a hot laser boat build (ofcourse you have to be able to use gaus otherwise it useless XD.

[Nerokar]

Palfatreos, on 18 October 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

Gaus the exception to the rule, gaus ammo don't explode BUT the gaus weapon does explode and it only has 5 hp instead of 10 hp unlike other weapons. So you wanna put alot gaus ammo (maybe even 1/2 gaus ammo if you got enough free slots) in the same place as the gaus weapon to buffer the damage

I placed all my ammo in CT/legs/or empty LT... Gauss was the only item in RT... Is this the cause of frequently explosions of my gauss? I'll give it another try next time I play.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Gauss has a 90% explosion chance. 9/10 games, it's going up if it gets hit. 20 damage to that side torso which won't be transferred to another (clan CASE). Gauss ammo doesn't explode however.

If you have a gauss in the RT, put your ammo and a DHS there. It's called critpadding. Sort of like this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...538f1724279203d

Delays the gauss explosion or reduces its crit chances, I believe.

I'm not sure of the crit mechanics, but I know lots of older players here do, and they can answer questions on that for you.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 19 October 2016 - 03:35 AM.

[Palfatreos]

I don't fully understand the crit chance mechanic myself but i think i get the basic of it.

source:
http://mwo.gamepedia...-_A_Brief_Guide (summary)
http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/ (original source)

I reccomend you read *how critical hit works* it explain crit chance of ac and laser weapons ad crit damage.

Example:
NOTE: i din't calculate the xl engine or fixed armor slots in it because i think it doesn't soak up crit damage??? So it might not be 100% accurate but it will show you the importance of buffering.

KDK-1(2 x cLPL,1 x cGAUSS, 4 x ML,XL400)

Gauss torso got: 1 cGAUSSS (5 HP/7slots), 2 x 1ton gaus ammo(10 HP/1slot), 2 x 1/2ton gaus ammo(10 HP/1slot). = total (45HP/11slots)

Chance that ONE critical hit hits:

1 x gauss + 2 x 1T Gaus ammo + 2 x 1/2T Gaus ammo => gaus= 7/11 = 63% chance getting hit, each ammo = 1/11 = 9%
1 x gauss + 3 x 1T Gaus ammo => gaus = 7/10 = 70% chance getting hit, each ammo = 1/10 = 10%
1 x gauss => gaus = 100 chance getting hit

NOTE: This only show the odds where the crit hit wil land.

Gaus weapon has still high chance of destroyed but still a huge difference if you don't buffer it with other components.

The odd of you gaus surviving is even higher with weapon that deal lower then 5 crit damage for example:
(1 x gauss + 2 x 1T Gaus ammo + 2 x 1/2T Gaus ammo)

(IS) AC5 with 1 crit => 5 damage => 63% chance gaus destroyed
(IS) AC2 with 3 crit => 3 x 2 damage => 63% * 63% * 63% = 25% chance gaus destroyed
(CLAN) cUAC10 with 2 crit total => 3 x 3,33 damage => 63% * 63% = 40% chance gaus destroyed.

*IS AC deals all damage in 1 bullet, while clan AC deal damage/per bullet => since cUAC10 shoot 3 bullet per volley 10/3=> 3.33 damage per bullet.*

NOTE: ballistic and missil ammo (gaus ammo is an exception) + gaus weapon has chance to explode when destroyed by crit. Just like *Keshav Murali* said Gauss has a 90% explosion chance. (forgot gaus weapon can explode XD )

Laser damage work per tick (which i think is damage/(burn*server tick rate) time or something like that). This makes buffering against laser very effective since damage will be more spread trough all components.

Edited by Palfatreos, 19 October 2016 - 04:37 AM.

[Nerokar]

Realy nice to learn this kind of tricks. Thanks!

[Palfatreos]

Np you seem to be intrested in building mech and got some basic understanding between the relation what each indivual weapon does and synchronisation of weapons despite being very new to this game.

Just trying to help on some game mechanics that doesnt show up ingame mechlab or smurfy.

I would recommend li song mech lab it a java program with much more detail with data pulled out the client itself BUT the current patch with new clan loyalist somehow screwed up the progam (which is a nightmare for me who like building mech even though i don't own most of them ) so i would wait for few week until she released a fix for it. (li song and smurfy build can be exported/imported to each other i use li song to build mech and export to smurfy to share with people)