244 replies to this topic

[Requiemking]

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

Besides neither you nor Yeonne Greene have said how they should be played.


^This says nothing of how they should be played.

Define capable combatant?

To what?
Against what?

I see lights kill people all the time. I see them get the jump on assaults not paying attention and killing them. So how are they not capable?

Light mechs, as things stand (And don't kid yourself with this "Gamemodes need to be fixed" nonsense. You know as well as everyone else that PGI is never going to fix them, so suck it up and work with what you have, instead of wasting time wishing for what will never be), need to be able to effectively fight and deal damage in order to get anywhere. Therefore, they have to be able to fight to their strengths, which are speed and agility. However, thanks to the incessant whining of Assault potatoes, Lights are continuously crushed by nerf after nerf. And the justification? "They are scouts". The exact same nonsense bulls**t you been spouting for the past several posts.

[Y E O N N E]

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 04:51 PM, said:

Please re-read what I said... Where did I say lights have the firepower of an assault?

Do you even read your own thread?

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

Funny how they are being used properly in MWOWC...

I don't see where you think it is balanced to have the same ammo and fire power as an assault and be the fastest.

You are either implying that Lights already are this or that we are saying they should be this, which we're not. The problem with Lights is not their firepower. The problem with Lights is that they are neither fast nor agile enough compared to the bigger 'Mechs and the guns that they carry.

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My god people just want to argue with me for the sake of arguing.

We're not arguing with you, we're verbally executing you. Again.

Quote

If you think lights need buffs because the game modes are the problem (which you even stated) then we are done talking.

You need to fix the game modes not the lights they are pretty much what they should be in this game. I'm all for buffing rewards to play your role correctly. Which is not to trade shots with all mechs 1:1 while keeping all the benefits of being a light.

You can increase the payout all you like, but it won't change much because people don't play games simply to earn fictional currency; they play them because they are fun. It doesn't matter what the game modes are, combat will always be the focus because that is the entire point of playing this game. A tiny, insignificant portion of players sign into MWO saying "gee, I want to just stand in colored squares or run around with triple AMS without ever roughing up somebody." Nobody signs into any shooter with that mindset. The support roles in all of the good shooters are always combat-capable. Battlefield, Team Fortress, even Overwatch. And yes, MechWarrior is a shooter and always has been, so don't try to go down the "simulation" route.

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

Besides neither you nor Yeonne Greene have said how they should be played.

Because the last time I answered a question you specifically directed at somebody else, you jumped down my throat for it.

You want to know how they should play?

6x MedLas Locust 1E or 1x LPL/ERLL Locust 1V after the rescale, but before the nerf is a good example. Fast, twitchy, low-exposure, solid alpha, and decent range. Runs around constantly shooting targets from funky angles and jumping back before they can react. They nerfed its range and its exposure time, when in fact it actually should have been buffed back to its previous 365 m reach, so now the Locust is Toast. The pre-rescale Jenner IIC with six cERML was similar, trading size and some twitch for armor and jump jets.

Alternatively, the fast brawlers like the pre-rescale Oxide and Jenner IIC, which were able to use their hit-points and size to sustain some damage as they pro-actively roamed for back-crits. The Oxide was actually useful in a real Brawl, and the IIC SRM36 bomber was enough to keep a team on its toes lest they lose a Kodiak to an assassination. It had enough firepower to be properly threatening over short bursts but was so hot that frontal engagements were impossible.

None of these 'Mechs can go 1 v 1 against a properly piloted Big, they hit from behind or beside. The problem with today's Lights is that they lack an adequate combination of agility, firepower, and range to do what they need to do and the fact that most of them are now huge means they also lack the durability to survive a poke.

Even the Spiders in MWOWC were getting whacked by Gauss and PPC with seeming ease.

[Imperius]

Requiemking, on 19 October 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

Light mechs, as things stand (And don't kid yourself with this "Gamemodes need to be fixed" nonsense. You know as well as everyone else that PGI is never going to fix them, so suck it up and work with what you have, instead of wasting time wishing for what will never be), need to be able to effectively fight and deal damage in order to get anywhere. Therefore, they have to be able to fight to their strengths, which are speed and agility. However, thanks to the incessant whining of Assault potatoes, Lights are continuously crushed by nerf after nerf. And the justification? "They are scouts". The exact same nonsense bulls**t you been spouting for the past several posts.

What nerfs have made a light mech unplayable for you.

Regardless if you like it or not the issue is the game modes, and right back at you "so suck it up and work with what you have"

[Requiemking]

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

What nerfs have made a light mech unplayable for you.

Regardless if you like it or not the issue is the game modes, and right back at you "so suck it up and work with what you have"

Oh, I do. And as for what nerfs? Lets see here:

1. JJ nerf

2. Rescale

3. Quirk nerf after quirk nerf after quirk nerf.

4. The score system's blatant bias towards Heavier mechs.

Edited by Requiemking, 19 October 2016 - 05:26 PM.

[Imperius]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 October 2016 - 05:18 PM, said:

Do you even read your own thread?



You are either implying that Lights already are this or that we are saying they should be this, which we're not. The problem with Lights is not their firepower. The problem with Lights is that they are neither fast nor agile enough compared to the bigger 'Mechs and the guns that they carry.



We're not arguing with you, we're verbally executing you. Again.



You can increase the payout all you like, but it won't change much because people don't play games simply to earn fictional currency; they play them because they are fun. It doesn't matter what the game modes are, combat will always be the focus because that is the entire point of playing this game. A tiny, insignificant portion of players sign into MWO saying "gee, I want to just stand in colored squares or run around with triple AMS without ever roughing up somebody." Nobody signs into any shooter with that mindset. The support roles in all of the good shooters are always combat-capable. Battlefield, Team Fortress, even Overwatch. And yes, MechWarrior is a shooter and always has been, so don't try to go down the "simulation" route.





Because the last time I answered a question you specifically directed at somebody else, you jumped down my throat for it.

You want to know how they should play?

6x MedLas Locust 1E or 1x LPL/ERLL Locust 1V after the rescale, but before the nerf is a good example. Fast, twitchy, low-exposure, solid alpha, and decent range. Runs around constantly shooting targets from funky angles and jumping back before they can react. They nerfed its range and its exposure time, when in fact it actually should have been buffed back to its previous 365 m reach, so now the Locust is Toast. The pre-rescale Jenner IIC with six cERML was similar, trading size and some twitch for armor and jump jets.

Alternatively, the fast brawlers like the pre-rescale Oxide and Jenner IIC, which were able to use their hit-points and size to sustain some damage as they pro-actively roamed for back-crits. The Oxide was actually useful in a real Brawl, and the IIC SRM36 bomber was enough to keep a team on its toes lest they lose a Kodiak to an assassination. It had enough firepower to be properly threatening over short bursts but was so hot that frontal engagements were impossible.

None of these 'Mechs can go 1 v 1 against a properly piloted Big, they hit from behind or beside. The problem with today's Lights is that they lack an adequate combination of agility, firepower, and range to do what they need to do and the fact that most of them are now huge means they also lack the durability to survive a poke.

Even the Spiders in MWOWC were getting whacked by Gauss and PPC with seeming ease.

Quote

Even the Spiders in MWOWC were getting whacked by Gauss and PPC with seeming ease.

(This is called skill) Sorry lights don't need floaties (buffs) because you can't swim.

Don't be out in the open to get whacked by Gauss learn to use the map.
Even the Spiders in MWOWC were getting whacked by Gauss and PPC with seeming ease.

That is like me yelling at Russ saying I need speed because my Dire Wolf can't dodge.

Edited by Imperius, 19 October 2016 - 05:36 PM.

[TheBlackMegadeus]

Requiemking, on 19 October 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

Oh, I do. And as for what nerfs? Lets see here:

1. JJ nerf

2. Rescale

3. Quirk nerf after quirk nerf after quirk nerf.

4. The score system's blatent bias towards Heavier mechs.

so pretty much the same **** every mech change is ****
Welcome to mwo beta, hope you spent some money or grinded cbills cause hoo boy most mechs are garbage.

[Imperius]

Requiemking, on 19 October 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

Oh, I do. And as for what nerfs? Lets see here:

1. JJ nerf [We can't fly] and I don't know the exact nerf. Is it leg damage?

2. Rescale [Still way smaller than we are. How can you miss and Atlas moving at half your speed?]

3. Quirk nerf after quirk nerf after quirk nerf.[To broad]

4. The score system's blatant bias towards Heavier mechs.[Didn't you see me type I agree with better rewards?]

[Requiemking]

1. JJs used to actually give you decent height when using them. Nowadays? You need at least six if you want to go anywhere.

2. And yet, you seem to have forgotten that certain Lights are now as tall as Catapults. Meanwhile, most Assaults came out with their combat capabilites unscathed.

3. Not really, considering that with each major quirk pass, the Lights section is coloured mostly red.

4. Better rewards won't solve the problem about the fact that Light mechs, as a weight class, have less combat power compared to literally every other weight class in the game. Why take a Light, when a Cicada or a Viper can do everything a Light can do, but better?

[Imperius]

Hold my beer I'm going to end this pointless argument where I am clearly right.



and get back on topic shall we?????

As a representative of Clan Diamond Shark I want the Mad Cat MK II! PGI add this mech so I can advertise our pride and joy the Mad Cat MK II please and thanks.

[Y E O N N E]

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 05:27 PM, said:

Even the Spiders in MWOWC were getting whacked by Gauss and PPC with seeming ease. (This is called skill) Sorry lights don't need floaties (buffs) because you can't swim.

Don't be out in the open to get whacked by Gauss learn to use the map.
Even the Spiders in MWOWC were getting whacked by Gauss and PPC with seeming ease.

I mean, if you want to count sitting in a crystal spire with a tiny portion exposed for brief intervals or making a time-sensitive motion to go for a cap as being "out in the open." Nobody can keep track of the entire enemy team. It doesn't happen. You can't do it, I can't do it, Proton can't do it. Nobody. No matter what pro-action you take, there is a non-trivial risk of getting shot. Since you have to expose to do anything useful, what you are implicitly saying is that Lights should literally hide for the entire match. I mean, really? Come on.

And if you want to use the "skill" argument, it goes both ways. There are no Lights that are a threat to the good Assaults in this game when the latter isn't piloted by a dimwit.

And on your Rescale comment above: relative big-ness is irrelevant. There is an absolute point at which a 'Mech and the components on it become as easy to hit as on larger 'Mechs because the precision of the weapons has remained unchanged. A Wolfhound is about as easy to dismantle as a Centurion, and what does it get in return? What can it really do that a Centurion cannot besides run faster in a straight line? Nothing, which is why it sucks. Its speed doesn't buy it anything, either. Lasers are not hard to aim and hold and PPFLD just boinks it all at once.

TL;DR: Lights have no defenses against git gud.

Edit: and you are not right. Players much better than you or me would say the same. Enjoy your wrongness.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 19 October 2016 - 05:45 PM.

[TheBlackMegadeus]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 October 2016 - 05:45 PM, said:

TL;DR: Lights have no defenses against git gud.

yes there is, its standing still getting one shot and quitting the match

[Deathlike]

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

First you took the tweet out of context. I'm tired of hearing bad light pilots ask for buffs, or saying stuff isn't fair. That statement was made in mocking those cries. Your job as a light mech in every mechwarrior game is to scout, backup, harass, and finish of wounded mechs. Not to be some kind of special one man cod unit that can take out everything on the field while being the fastest.

But regardless since when did I ever give you the impression I gave a **** about your support?

For saying that, I'll rescind any support for the MKII.

[Imperius]

Deathlike, on 19 October 2016 - 06:08 PM, said:

For saying that, I'll rescind any support for the MKII.

I hope that is sarcasm.

[Deathlike]

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 06:10 PM, said:

I hope that is sarcasm.

Wouldn't you like to know?

I know I'm pretty serious about Lights in general, that's for sure.

Edited by Deathlike, 19 October 2016 - 06:11 PM.

[Imperius]

Deathlike, on 19 October 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

Wouldn't you like to know?

I know I'm pretty serious about Lights in general, that's for sure.

Then I guess you can guess my response without me even having to say it. Also you never were in support of it anyway.

Edited by Imperius, 19 October 2016 - 06:16 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

I'm just gonna add to Yeonne. Imperius, you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to light fights. You can even ask people like TFun about how useful lights are and compared to the other classes, they are just the least useful, often only able to actually do damage once the engagement has already started to turn against the enemy's favor. As Yeonne said, due to their inability to engage directly they are often trying to find things to occupy themselves with (capping, scouting, maneuvering just waiting for an opportunity to actually do something) which is partially why they are the least fun to play and why most people avoid them, the most risk for the least reward.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 October 2016 - 08:18 PM.

[DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 October 2016 - 08:15 PM, said:

I'm just gonna add to Yeonne. Imperius, you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to light fights. You can even ask people like TFun about how useful lights are and compared to the other classes, they are just the least useful, often only able to actually do damage once the engagement has already started to turn against the enemy's favor. As Yeonne said, due to their inability to engage directly they are often trying to find things to occupy themselves with (capping, scouting, maneuvering just waiting for an opportunity to actually do something) which is partially why they are the least fun to play and why most people avoid them, the most risk for the least reward.

Sounds like exactly what they are supposed to do.

[Y E O N N E]

DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley, on 19 October 2016 - 09:10 PM, said:

Sounds like exactly what they are supposed to do.

You don't get it. They are only there because the rules force them to be there. They are not actually useful to the game except by artificial circumstance. Since the release valves are open all the time in Quick Play, you don't get to enjoy that artificial environment.

And this is only one game mode. In Assault, Skirmish, and Domination, they are effectively useless.

[DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 October 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

You don't get it. They are only there because the rules force them to be there. They are not actually useful to the game except by artificial circumstance. Since the release valves are open all the time in Quick Play, you don't get to enjoy that artificial environment.

And this is only one game mode. In Assault, Skirmish, and Domination, they are effectively useless.

I get it completely. You want 20 tons to be as effective as 100 tons and this will never happen. Mechwarrior Online is the only game that lights are even somewhat useful compared to other tiltes.

Sounds like they just need to enforce the "artificial environment" 3/3/3/3 and increase wait times.

As usual I see the community. Wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

It's funny this other guy doesn't know this is my alt when I've clearly stated many times... this is my alt.

[Y E O N N E]

DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley, on 19 October 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

I get it completely. You want 20 tons to be as effective as 100 tons and this will never happen. Mechwarrior Online is the only game that lights are even somewhat useful compared to other tiltes.

No, you don't. The game weights every 'Mech equally, otherwise there would be four of me in my Locust to every one Kodiak. The only game mode where tonnage is used as a balance factor is Faction Warfare which...nobody plays because it sucks.

Also, you put those other titles on a pedestal as if they were good. They were not. Multiplayer was unmitigated trash in terms of balance, with even less variety than MWO has.

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Sounds like they just need to enforce the "artificial environment" 3/3/3/3 and increase wait times.

Which will never happen. Too many people want to play the big 'Mechs precisely because Lights suck.

Quote

It's funny this other guy doesn't know this is my alt when I've clearly stated many times... this is my alt.

As if anybody cared?