68 replies to this topic

[War Beast]

Stomps happen. Your team is gone, your alone. I play the game. I stretch the enemy team out, trying to force 1v1 or 2v1 engagements instead of getting ganged at 8v1. Smart tactics right ? Yes they are. 1v8 or 10, you have to be patient, you have to manuever. Sure you may not win, but you don't have to completely give up. And I've had the pleasure of pulling off some highly incredible wins at 6v1 and 7v1 respectively (yes skirmish) in the last few months. But only if you don't get ...

Every single stomp, theres always a couple teammates that "got killed and want you to die too so they feel better types", or they are just as jerkily selfish and don't want to use another mech immediately, that are calling out your position.

I have NEVER EVER seen or heard of anyone getting even a warning, much less a temp ban for this behaviour. It's practically common practice in any match that someone doesnt automatically suicide. And it's also against the rules, as has been pointed out numerous times.

So ... wth ?!? Cut it out.

[Bombast]

I have never, ever seen anyone call positions, unless the person being called is afk/disconnected. Even when their obviously just being a time wasting **** and trying to drag a skirmish out 6 minutes to prevent a death without even trying to fight, no ones calls peoples locations.

If your position is getting called that frequently, it's likely because everyone thinks you're afk. So move.

EDIT: To clarify, it probably does happen. But not anywhere near as frequently as you seem to be implying. Either you're exaggerating for affect, or not telling us something.

Edited by Bombast, 15 October 2016 - 09:11 PM.

[Baulven]

I will admit I have called wrong positions before to help lure people for the person still alive. But then, the enemy should do their job. The only time I would is for Afk/DC or someone that shuts down for a long time (short shut downs to avoid sensors happen.)

[Wintersdark]

Baulven, on 15 October 2016 - 09:14 PM, said:

I will admit I have called wrong positions before to help lure people for the person still alive. But then, the enemy should do their job. The only time I would is for Afk/DC or someone that shuts down for a long time (short shut downs to avoid sensors happen.)

You know, I've never seen shut downs to avoid sensors work. Oh, sure, the theory is there... But in practice?

Sensors only work with line of sight. If you have line of sight... well, you can see them.

Unless you've got horrible hardware, monitor settings, or eyesight, you're not missing the mech you're actively hunting. That's my experience anyways.

[JediPanther]

Three ways to deal with an sob giving out your location.

1. Go into third person view. No mini map so they can't call it out.
2. Turn off the hud. Shift + f11 key
3. Use all chat to tell the sob to stop and then use all chat to call for the sob to be reported for team treason and assisting the enemy if they call out again.

Even if they use f9 to see your exact in game grid location they'd have to be hell fast on the keyboard to type them out assuming you keep moving. Voip the enemy team can't hear. Ts they'd have to know some one on the other side and have that person on ts as well which is very unlikely.

[MrMadguy]

Your position is usually called in one case - when your teammates see, that you violate "avoiding engagement"/"needlessly dragging out the match"/"running out the clock" non-participation rule. Dying at the end of match, when you are last 'Mech to die - isn't suicide. It's just "losing a match in fight with superior enemy forces". And suicide - is dying early and abnormally to boycott map/mode, you don't like. At the end of match you are required to engage with enemies. If you run away, hide and expect them to come and find you - you are violating the non-participation rule. That's why, I guess, your position is being called out. They usually give you some grace period to engage. But if they see, that you don't even going to engage withing 1-2 minutes - your position is being called out.

P.S. Actually I think, that PGI should implement "engagement timer", cuz Skirmish - is the only mode, that doesn't have secondary objective, that would prevent players from dragging matches out.

Edited by MrMadguy, 15 October 2016 - 09:44 PM.

[Ace Selin]

JediPanther, on 15 October 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

Three ways to deal with giving out your location.

4th way; dont be that loner sniping light, that plays selfishly and only plays for himself.

[FalconerGray]

MrMadguy, on 15 October 2016 - 09:40 PM, said:

P.S. Actually I think, that PGI should implement "engagement timer", cuz Skirmish - is the only mode, that doesn't have secondary objective, that would prevent players from dragging matches out.

You mean like a....time limit or something?

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Ace Selin, on 15 October 2016 - 09:47 PM, said:

4th way; dont be that loner sniping light, that plays selfishly and only plays for himself.

What's so selfish about winning? I got my best W/L rates on Mist Lynx. I think it's due to ability to shoot so many enemies and to take good positions. It distracts them badly.

If we lose, typically with Mist Lynx I'm the last one to fall. I usually get called out by enemy more. I fight till end but obviously I won't give up, meaning head to their weapon's optimal range to "brawl".


Now LRM summoner, I've had few fun ends with it, one particular game I shot with blind fire enemy mech I could not lock, and he died, at least 3 of our team members laughed on the voip. It was really close game but in the end last enemy mech with PPCs gunned me down as I had nearly no armor at all. Since then I downgraded on laucher to pack more armor.

But just recently I had really bad end with it when over half of my team was calling me out and generally insulting me. As if it was my fault that we lost.

Edited by Teer5, 15 October 2016 - 10:05 PM.

[LordNothing]

the only time i ever see people call em out is if one of these happens:

afk at spawn
disconnect somewhere
mech shut down, pilot unresponsive in chat

then there are those players who claim to do tactical shutdowns, but i think they are just trolling. if i see a light skitting around, im fine with that, so long as they are still trying to win or at least hurt the enemy as hard as they can before they die. then theres the obvious question: why didnt you do that when your team was still alive? especially when they have little or no damage it smells kinda fishy to me. sometimes you see a player go all covert ops and end up winning the game for a team 3 or 4 in a hole, and in that case its usually worth the watch.

[Angel of Annihilation]

War Beast, on 15 October 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

Stomps happen. Your team is gone, your alone. I play the game. I stretch the enemy team out, trying to force 1v1 or 2v1 engagements instead of getting ganged at 8v1. Smart tactics right ? Yes they are. 1v8 or 10, you have to be patient, you have to manuever. Sure you may not win, but you don't have to completely give up. And I've had the pleasure of pulling off some highly incredible wins at 6v1 and 7v1 respectively (yes skirmish) in the last few months. But only if you don't get ... Every single stomp, theres always a couple teammates that "got killed and want you to die too so they feel better types", or they are just as jerkily selfish and don't want to use another mech immediately, that are calling out your position. I have NEVER EVER seen or heard of anyone getting even a warning, much less a temp ban for this behaviour. It's practically common practice in any match that someone doesnt automatically suicide. And it's also against the rules, as has been pointed out numerous times. So ... wth ?!? Cut it out.

It isn't that they want you to die, it is that they want to be able to exit the match and start over again with the mech they are currently playing. I am not saying that aren't complete arsehat's for informing on you IF YOU ARE ACTIVELY PLAYING, not trying to preserve your K/D but I do absolutely understand the reason why they do it.

For myself, if I find that I am the last person on my team and don't have a chance of winning the match, I will just run in and fight it out and get it over with as a courtesy to my team instead of dragging it out. I realize how much it annoys me when I am wanting the match to end so I can jump back in so I don't make other suffer just so I can get a bit more damage.

[Trollfeed]

Only seen positions called on afk mechs or disconnects. Or if the last mech just goes to hide somewhere and shuts down.

All of them are legit calls. I don't want to wait for 10 mins to match end because no one can find that shutdowned spider in top of some spire in tourmaline desert.

Edited by Trollfeed, 15 October 2016 - 10:17 PM.

[MrMadguy]

legatoblues, on 15 October 2016 - 09:53 PM, said:

You mean like a....time limit or something?

Another timer, that would give you 75 seconds for every 'Mech alive on your team. Resets to N * 75 every time, 'Mech on your team dies. When this timer will run out - you will have auto-loss, as in case of enemies gathering 750 resources at Conquest, capturing base at Assault or beacon at Domination. I.e. you will have 15 minutes at the beginning of the match and 75 seconds, when you're last 'Mech standing. Ticks, only when you're not engaged. Now, after implementation of Domination, we know, that it's possible. I.e. if you're constantly engaged - this timer won't mean anything and you will be able to use ordinal 15 minutes timer till it's end. But if you run away and go hiding - you will have 75 seconds only. That's it. As simple, as that.

Logic behind this change is simple. Every mode has "secondary" objective (it's usually called primary, lol), that prevents players from playing too passively and dragging out matches. "Primary" one - is to kill all enemy 'Mechs. Each mode has it own "secondary" one - to capture base, to hold beacon, to collect resources. If you ignore or violate this "secondary" objective - you auto-lose. But only Skirmish don't have such objective. But, I guess, it should. Yeah, "primary" objective - is to kill all enemy 'Mechs. But "secondary" one - should be "to actively participate in battle", which means staying engaged. Violating this objective should cause auto-lose, as it happens in all other modes.

Edited by MrMadguy, 15 October 2016 - 10:57 PM.

[Aresye]

MrMadguy, on 15 October 2016 - 10:25 PM, said:

But "secondary" one - should be "to actively participate in battle", which means staying engaged. Violating this objective should cause auto-lose, as it happens in all other modes.

Scenario:
- Score is 11-10 (Your team's winning).
- One of your teammates is AFK. Has been AFK the entire match.
- Last remaining enemy mech is really hurt, almost dead. Still has weapons.
- You yourself are really hurt, almost dead. Still have weapons.
- 3min left on clock.
- What do?

I ask this because this was the exact scenario I was in for a leaderboard tournament about 2 years ago. The rules for the tournament started that in order to get points that counted for the leaderboard, your team had to win the match (no draw, no loss).

If your rule was in place, both myself and the remaining enemy mech would have been forced to engage each other. Both of us were hurt enough it basically came down to whoever saw who first. I had just broken contact with the remaining enemy after taking out his friend and taking the lead for the team. I had a good idea where the last one was at, but wasn't 100% certain.

If I had chosen to engage, there was a 50:50 chance he would see me first and kill me, thus bringing the score to a tie, resulting in the forfeiture of all leaderboard points for both teams. It was pretty much impossible they would have found the AFK back in spawn with the little remaining match time.

I chose to back away. Found myself a nice corner in the map, and powered down. I told my team I didn't want to risk screwing it over for everybody, although thankfully all of them were cool with it. About 1-2min later the timer ended, my team still had the lead, we won, and I got just enough points from that match to boost me into the #1 leaderboard spot for that event.

[Yosharian]

Avoiding combat is against terms of service.

I have no problem with people playing the 'loner sniper' if they are actively trying to get kills/damage (and yes that may involve repositioning i.e. temporarily running away to gain a better sniping point or create distance). This is a favourite playstyle of mine so evidently I have no issue with it.

The issue arises when you have people who are just blatantly running away for the sake of prolonging the game (not the same as repositioning) or avoiding combat entirely, e.g. by hiding.

You better believe that person is going to get called out. And PGI's terms of service backs up such actions. BTW shutting down or turning off your HUD won't do ****. F9.

That aside, personally I will go suicide if I am the last person alive and I don't think I have at least a slim chance of winning (1v8 for example), because I personally don't like to waste 23 people's time just for the sake of getting an extra 10k cbills or slightly better stats. But that's just my personal view on the subject of course, I don't expect others to agree with that 100%. I'll also listen to my team in situations like this: if they start complaining then I might just go rambo, but if they're actively encouraging me to go for it then I might try my best even if I think it might be a loss anyway.

The bottom line is, as long as you're actively trying to engage the enemy, or repositioning in order to do so, then it's all good.

Edited by Yosharian, 16 October 2016 - 12:30 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Aresye, on 16 October 2016 - 12:18 AM, said:

Scenario:
- Score is 11-10 (Your team's winning).
- One of your teammates is AFK. Has been AFK the entire match.
- Last remaining enemy mech is really hurt, almost dead. Still has weapons.
- You yourself are really hurt, almost dead. Still have weapons.
- 3min left on clock.
- What do?

I ask this because this was the exact scenario I was in for a leaderboard tournament about 2 years ago. The rules for the tournament started that in order to get points that counted for the leaderboard, your team had to win the match (no draw, no loss).

If your rule was in place, both myself and the remaining enemy mech would have been forced to engage each other. Both of us were hurt enough it basically came down to whoever saw who first. I had just broken contact with the remaining enemy after taking out his friend and taking the lead for the team. I had a good idea where the last one was at, but wasn't 100% certain.

If I had chosen to engage, there was a 50:50 chance he would see me first and kill me, thus bringing the score to a tie, resulting in the forfeiture of all leaderboard points for both teams. It was pretty much impossible they would have found the AFK back in spawn with the little remaining match time.

I chose to back away. Found myself a nice corner in the map, and powered down. I told my team I didn't want to risk screwing it over for everybody, although thankfully all of them were cool with it. About 1-2min later the timer ended, my team still had the lead, we won, and I got just enough points from that match to boost me into the #1 leaderboard spot for that event.

You would win anyway, as you had one more 'Mech alive. Engagement timer would simply prevent waste of time. Cuz imagine, that there would be 10 minutes left, not just 3. Is it unfair? Nope. If you don't want enemies to win this way, you should: 1) Stay in constant contact with them not to allow them to run away and hide 2) Try to kill them, while they're still engaged 3) Try to win match, while your team is still alive, not when it's too late. I.e. play according to spirit of Skirmish, instead of playing way too passively. As simple, as that.

May be even something should be done to promote active gameplay on team level. I.e. something should be done to discourage personal passive gameplay, via punishing whole team right from the beginning of the match. So this passive player would know right from the beginning, that passive gameplay would lead his team and him personally towards loss. Cuz in most cases "last 'Mech standing" problem is caused by way too passive gameplay of this player. He avoids combat right from the beginning - that's why he is alive and even fresh at the end. I should think about this problem.

Edited by MrMadguy, 16 October 2016 - 12:51 AM.

[Hunka Junk]

legatoblues, on 15 October 2016 - 09:53 PM, said:

You mean like a....time limit or something?

Quite literally, a shot clock.

[Yellonet]

Yes it happens. Just report them and move on.

[Albino Boo]

Aresye, on 16 October 2016 - 12:18 AM, said:

Scenario:
- Score is 11-10 (Your team's winning).
- One of your teammates is AFK. Has been AFK the entire match.
- Last remaining enemy mech is really hurt, almost dead. Still has weapons.
- You yourself are really hurt, almost dead. Still have weapons.
- 3min left on clock.
- What do?

I ask this because this was the exact scenario I was in for a leaderboard tournament about 2 years ago. The rules for the tournament started that in order to get points that counted for the leaderboard, your team had to win the match (no draw, no loss).

If your rule was in place, both myself and the remaining enemy mech would have been forced to engage each other. Both of us were hurt enough it basically came down to whoever saw who first. I had just broken contact with the remaining enemy after taking out his friend and taking the lead for the team. I had a good idea where the last one was at, but wasn't 100% certain.

If I had chosen to engage, there was a 50:50 chance he would see me first and kill me, thus bringing the score to a tie, resulting in the forfeiture of all leaderboard points for both teams. It was pretty much impossible they would have found the AFK back in spawn with the little remaining match time.

I chose to back away. Found myself a nice corner in the map, and powered down. I told my team I didn't want to risk screwing it over for everybody, although thankfully all of them were cool with it. About 1-2min later the timer ended, my team still had the lead, we won, and I got just enough points from that match to boost me into the #1 leaderboard spot for that event.

There is a difference between playing for the team win in a tournament and some idiot hiding at 4-11 in quick play. The only time I have ever hidden is when I was out of ammo at 11-11. There are very few circumstances were hiding and running are the best option for the team.

[Baulven]

Wintersdark, on 15 October 2016 - 09:30 PM, said:

You know, I've never seen shut downs to avoid sensors work. Oh, sure, the theory is there... But in practice?

Sensors only work with line of sight. If you have line of sight... well, you can see them.

Unless you've got horrible hardware, monitor settings, or eyesight, you're not missing the mech you're actively hunting. That's my experience anyways.

The only time I have seen it (and it worked) was on bog with a good paint scheme. Since the map is a ton of concealment of you are in the right spot it can work. It is rare enough I only see it once.