36 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

Domination gets voted every single time skirmish isn't a choice. Just double Skirmish chances to appear in the votes and be done with it. In comparison to domination, Skirmish isn't a braindead mode anymore, at least people did something different ne In a blue moon. Domination make any map crappy, repetitive, and it sucks the fun out of the game.

[El Bandito]

Domination can be made into a more dynamic mode simply through changing MFB functions, and locations. Of course, PGI does not like fun, and will never listen to my idea.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Would be cool if I could get conquest more often, I want to increase my cbills per hour.

[TheArisen]

Idk, Dom can be a lot of fun. Yeah there are some things that could be done to improve it but removing it would be the wrong way to go.

[Alistair Winter]

The circle itself needs to move in order to make this game mode dynamic. That's the only way to stop the horrible monotony.

I hate Domination with every fiber of my being.

[RestosIII]

My main complaint about Dom is that the positioning can be BRUTAL for teams with certain loadouts, and since the MM doesn't care about loadouts... you can get very fast games with it. It does have an upside though. Less chance of someone interrupting any rights of zellbrigen that I convince people to do in matches.

[DAYLEET]

TheArisen, on 22 October 2016 - 12:16 AM, said:

Idk, Dom can be a lot of fun. Yeah there are some things that could be done to improve it but removing it would be the wrong way to go.

It add nothing over skirmish beside a very strict rule. Yeah, the old tradition of running after the last light in skirmish was annoying and I didn't really like skirmish but at least we could play on the map.

Edited by DAYLEET, 22 October 2016 - 12:37 AM.

[Mike McSullivan]

It wouldnt be that bad if the circle would be put in a fair spot. Which it does not in 50% of all maps right now.

Had a big LOL yesterday when i played NEW TT-Redux-Dom: The enemy had -30sec(!!!) on their counter when i arrived in the circle, in a 130kph ACH...

My idea would be (posted it somewhere else, too): Make the destruction of the enemy beacons obligatory to be able to start the counter! One beacon down: half tickspeed(1/2sec), both down: normal tickspeed(1/1sec).

[MrMadguy]

DAYLEET, on 21 October 2016 - 11:52 PM, said:

Domination gets voted every single time skirmish isn't a choice. Just double Skirmish chances to appear in the votes and be done with it. In comparison to domination, Skirmish isn't a braindead mode anymore, at least people did something different ne In a blue moon. Domination make any map crappy, repetitive, and it sucks the fun out of the game.

Depends on map mostly. On maps, where beacon position is picked right - domination is actually better, than Skirmish. But on most maps beacon is horribly placed - in a middle of nowhere, so match turns into snipe/LRM fest without any options to change position or flank enemies via some other route. I guess, PGI do it intentionally - to have snipe/LRM Meta mode. That's when it's better to vote for Assault or may be even Conquest.

I.e. Domination itself isn't that bad. It's "legalization" of "king of hill" tactic, that had been used on some maps even before Domination was implemented. Crimson Strait, Alpine Peaks, old Terra Therma. May be some players like it... So. What is bad - is map design. Not mode itself.

Edited by MrMadguy, 22 October 2016 - 01:30 AM.

[Aiden Skye]

No...skirmish is ******** and should be erased from existence. Hate it and wish people would quit voting it. Besides it's not like anyone does anything different in skirmish vs domination anyway. Run to the middle - Nascar. Circle in domination needs to have multiple potential spawn locations...not just the same spot everyone fights over in Skirmish, assault even Conquest.

[ice trey]

I don't mind either way...

Now, reduce the frequency that HPG, Mining Colony, and Crimson show up, and you've got a deal maker. Better yet, make them always show up as a set, so players have to choose only one. God forbid maybe we'll actually start seeing some map variation.

Another possibility is having underplayed maps get higher rewards, but considering how many people are voting against the new Terra Therma in spite of being able to get a warhorn for free after six matches... I don't think a little C-bill boost will do much good.

[Bombast]

God no. Domination circles need to be reworked, and Skirmish needs to be taken completely out of the game

Seriously, to hell with Skirmish. Say no to camping, and aimless power trains, and matches where you swap spawn points with Red team three times before anyone dies. Say no to playing the waiting game and winning just because the other team got fed up with your lame crap and decided to go play something else.

[Wintersdark]

Bombast, on 22 October 2016 - 06:39 AM, said:

God no. Domination circles need to be reworked, and Skirmish needs to be taken completely out of the game

Seriously, to hell with Skirmish. Say no to camping, and aimless power trains, and matches where you swap spawn points with Red team three times before anyone dies. Say no to playing the waiting game and winning just because the other team got fed up with your lame crap and decided to go play something else.

I'm with you here.

I love Domination conceptually, but I understand the OP's issue with it basically negating the majority of a map.

The advantage of Domination is that it forces aggression, and it may or may not be ideal for you and your loadout. This is a good thing; you don't get a perfect map/mode for the loadout you chose all the time, and you need to adapt. The battle has to happen, you don't just stand around in your defensively strong locations and wait (potentially HPG excepted, but of course this is fixed by the change below as well).

However, static dom circles lead to very repetitive play. Also, a static circle in a bad place (See: Alpine) leads to a match that's typically over before it begins, and predictably. If the circle moved from match to match, either with a set of randomly chosen positions or simply being randomly placed relatively equidistant to the two teams, that would be entirely different. Then you'd have each Dom battle being entirely different from the last, which fixes the only serious issue with the mode.

While a moving circle would certainly have positions that benefit one team over the other, them being in different locations would mix up the "Default Strategies" PUG matches employ to the point that this would rarely be capitalized on, and even at higher level play introduce enough chaos to require rapid adaptation. It'd be more interesting, if nothing else, and no worse than the current situation of some maps having Dom circles in bad spots all the time.

[Blind Baku]

One maxim I've picked up for MWO: "Never vote for Skirmish"
1/2 your matches will be skirmish, 1/2 your non-skirmish matches will become skirmish.

Domi is a good(ish) game mode (for yet another iteration of 12 v 12 deathmatch) because it allows more known variables, and less nascar with no shots fires (Assault).

I'd say don't remove domi, just fix the circle points on half the maps to be better balanced, give Alpha and Beta something more unique than just +15sec timer, etc...

I'd argue Assault in it's current format is the one that has an easy propensity to suck the life out of the game, and then only when it becomes a double nascar to the finish...

[Wintersdark]

As to skirmish... *yawns*

While all modes boil down to Skirmish in that combat is ultimately how you win, having the second win condition ensures that there's things to account for, more to think about. While I dislike Assault more than I dislike Skirmish (because nothing pains me more than totally non-combat wins due to over zealous NASCAR, even when that wasn't intended) I'm strongly of the opinion that Assault needs fixing, and if anything Skirmish should just go away.

Blind Baku, on 22 October 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

One maxim I've picked up for MWO: "Never vote for Skirmish"
1/2 your matches will be skirmish, 1/2 your non-skirmish matches will become skirmish.

Domi is a good(ish) game mode (for yet another iteration of 12 v 12 deathmatch) because it allows more known variables, and less nascar with no shots fires (Assault).

I'd say don't remove domi, just fix the circle points on half the maps to be better balanced, give Alpha and Beta something more unique than just +15sec timer, etc...

I'd argue Assault in it's current format is the one that has an easy propensity to suck the life out of the game, and then only when it becomes a double nascar to the finish...

This, Exactly. Skirmish is unnecessary because so many matches are just going to become Skirmish anyways =) Mind you, I'm not really pushing at removing skirmish overall; but I'll ONLY vote for Skirmish when it's that or Assault.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Remove Skirmish already and double the Conquest rate.

Or, instead of taking radical action for no good reason, ignore the OP. Skirmish is the worst, lowest paying, and most boring game mode. There are enough people who play this game, though, who insist on playing Skirmish despite its manifold issues that PGI should not remove it. Offering us two alternative, superior game modes to vote for is far better than forcing us to suffer through Skirmish each time it comes up.

Edit: Optimal voting order is thus: Conquest, Domination, Assault, Skirmish (meaning one never votes for Skirmish). Any mode that reduces nascar is good. Any mode that has an extra objective that adds to the end payout is good. Any mode that has inherent safeguards against trolls who want to hide-grief or ecm-troll is good.

Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 22 October 2016 - 06:59 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 22 October 2016 - 06:56 AM, said:

Remove Skirmish already and double the Conquest rate.

Or, instead of taking radical action for no good reason, ignore the OP. Skirmish is the worst, lowest paying, and most boring game mode. There are enough people who play this game, though, who insist on playing Skirmish despite its manifold issues that PGI should not remove it. Offering us two alternative, superior game modes to vote for is far better than forcing us to suffer through Skirmish each time it comes up.

Edit: Optimal voting order is thus: Conquest, Domination, Assault, Skirmish (meaning one never votes for Skirmish). Any mode that reduces nascar is good. Any mode that has an extra objective that adds to the end payout is good. Any mode that has inherent safeguards against trolls who want to hide-grief or ecm-troll is good.

Good points. I kind of disagree wtih the edit, of course, as I'd put Assault under Skirmish, but only reluctantly and until such a time as it's updated to fix the "NASCAR to Nothing" issue.

But yeah, removing game modes doesn't help anyone, and particularly when a lot of players like a mode which applies as much to Domination as it does to Skirmish.

What we DO need is some modifications to existing modes to make them play better - moving Domination circles, for example, and... I don't even know how to fix Assault.

But despite people's complaints about Conquest (do people still complain about Conquest?) the earlier flaws with it don't apply at all anymore. A no-combat Conquest game is practically impossible; the worst case scenario is that your team scatters at the start of the match, but blaming the mode for what happens in some Skirmish matches too is hardly fair. People are dumb.

Conquest, though, grants more cbills than any other mode, virtually garauntees combat, but also gives faster mechs - particularly lights - a stronger reason to exist and more value to a match. You can't just camp up somewhere defensively strong and expect the OpFor to engage you to your advantage; you need to control the whole map.

There's a reason Conquest is what's used for the Tournament.

But in all honesty, even though I HATE how Assault can "bug" (if you will), I would *NOT* want to see it removed.

Because variety in game modes adds so much to this game. Having battles have extra considerations is always good.

Add more modes, but absolutely don't remove any.

[MrMadguy]

Strange thing... There is always such kind of players on forums, who want to kill game for majority of other players in order to achieve some ephemeral "better game". Via making it extremely hardcore for example. Are they elitists, who want game to be exclusive for them? I.e. "I accomplished this hard goal - then you should do it too or GTFO"? Or "I suffered - and you should suffer too"? Or they're just simple trolls?

Majority of players like Skirmish just because it's the only "true MechWarrior" mode. Players build their 'Mechs not to run around map, play hide'n'seek and capture some nodes. We want to actually kill enemies - we don't need CapWarrior Online, sorry. We don't need modes, that encourage avoiding enemies, instead of fighting against them. We don't need Assault, where players play "Who will NASCAR and capture base first" game, simply because if you wouldn't play it - your enemies would win match due to doing it. We don't need Conquest, because we don't want teams to win matches against superior forces just due to focusing on capturing nodes. The core idea behind capturing nodes in any game - is to shift players' focus from center of the map and make players fight for them - not to play CapWarrior Online, i.e. focus on capturing bases and win match via capturing only. It's nonsense. That's why Conquest is relatively good on small maps, but completely unbearable on large ones. And I've already mentioned Domination. It's snipe/LRM fest on most of maps. And players hate to be wrecked without any chances to deal some damage to enemies. That's because players hate poptarts so much. Just because shotting enemies, while staying completely safe and not giving them any chances to shot you back and counter you some way - is pure cheat.

That's why Skirmish - is best mode in this game. That's why players prefer maps, like Canyon, HPG and Mining. Simply because they are the most fair and balanced ones. Deal with it. And say thx, that PGI added "soft" map/mode selection, that allows you to get, what you want, at least eventually. They could leave "hard" mode selection instead, so you would not be able to play your precious Conquest at all. Same with maps. "Ban map" feature - is feature, that is implemented in most other games. Even in Wow, despite of fact, that Blizzard are well known exactly for forcing players to play the way, that is "good for game, not for players". It's implementation - was the next logical step after such maps, like Terra Therma, was implemented.

Edited by MrMadguy, 22 October 2016 - 07:25 AM.

[Blind Baku]

Wintersdark, on 22 October 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

Good points...

Add more modes, but absolutely don't remove any.

This guy, he gets it.

Ideas on Assault... well that is another thread.

Edit:

MrMadguy, on 22 October 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

"No true [Mechwarrior]"

Someplayers actually want their stompy death machines to require more than just stompy death. Don't get me wrong, the point of a stompy death machine is to inflict pixelated death on the reds... but why not require more than just death. Objectives are broken in some modes (Assault mode nascars), but when you have modes that require other forms of play (Conquest, Domi) you still encourage fights you just either spread them out across the map (conquest) or localize them to one portion of the map (Domi*).

Can you win Conquest with a pyrrhic victory? Yeah, I had a match like that last night, good fights but the MLX with no gun won against the remaining enemy remaining mechs because no one took the time to think about anything but good fights. Sucks for them, but you know what, they still had good fights**.

Can you get a hard derp team in Domi that doesn't seem to understand you have to be in the circle to win? Yeah, but #puglife will always be a struggle, any game mode.

I'm with Winterdark, the game doesn't need less variety, it could use more polished variety.
*I would like to see the circles move on the maps, allowing variety in the locations would keep people on their toes more.
**They also should have scattered to cap instead of trying to chase down the light. Even if they had killed it they would still have timed out.

Edited by Blind Baku, 22 October 2016 - 07:38 AM.

[WarHippy]

All I'm going to say since I'm about to leave for vactation is... SCREW SKIRMISH! No matter how lacing the other modes are and in need of updating they are all vastly superior to the stain of a mode called skirmish. Remove that crap and I will suddenly care a lot less about my choice being taken with that idiotic vote nonsense.