45 replies to this topic

[Bodha]

Michael Cerpent, on 18 July 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Lot's of "It's Iconic."

And honestly, I get that. Unfortunately, I didn't really have access to the earlier Mechwarrior franchise games. I got to play Crescent Hawk's Inception and Revenge when I was younger, but my father bogarted the computer when it game to the early Mechwarrior games. Not having any real money to speak of on my own until the past several years meant that I didn't really pick up any of the later ones.

So, I think that if I had played those games, I might get it more. But at least I can see where you're coming from on it. Thanks!

A good way to get a feel for the original tabletop game is to read through the mech descriptions over on sarna.net. The original tabletop game was a fairly detailed game of small unit mech combat. A supplement allowed you to use single paper chits to represent lances which made it possible to fight regimental sized battles with fewer people. If you had the supplement and a good number of people it was easy to setup a campaign and use the chits to play out the battle until you had people available who wanted to play a specific smaller portion of the battle.

The biggest problem with this game honestly is that the mechwarrior 2-4 titles were effectively arms races. The original concept was more of a post apocalypse mech wars where both sides weren't able to easily replace losses so were much more cautious in risking their mechs. The pc games show clan tech stomping all over the IS tech and most people get all wrapped up in that. What they should be reminding themselves of though was that the tabletop game was fairly well balanced and as long as the dev's carry over those balancing aspects (namely heat, bulkiness, costs in c-bills and BV) it will all be good.

[BarHaid]

Michael Cerpent, on 18 July 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

If you want a PPC and a SRM 4, you can get that pretty easily from a Jenner. Drop the engine down by one level, swap to double heat sinks, add endo steel, and you can swap three Medium Lasers for a PPC, plus pop in another jump jet. This leaves you with still more firepower than the Panther, and 6/9/6 mobility. Only 4 tons of armor, but you can choose to go ferro-fibrous to squeeze in about 7 more points, or drop the extra jump jet for another half ton of armor on top of that. And you don't even need an XL engine.

(And yes, I know that, with modification, you can give the Panther 6/9/4 speed without lowering its armor or adding an XL engine. But how does that make it a significantly different alternative to the Jenner?)

You've... got a bit of a point there. From a strictly hard point view, the Panther comes off a bit less than the Jenner.

But it has hands.

That makes no difference now, but when melee gets implemented, or if we ever get to have raiding missions, ah, then the difference will shine!

Edited by BarHaid, 18 July 2012 - 08:56 PM.

[TheCerpent]

Actually, I had gotten together with a group of friends several times to do the TT RPG; rolled up characters and everything. Problem is, we never actually got around to playing the game. Something always came up.

Ever since CH:I, I've been really enthusiastic about the idea of piloting "giant robots with lasers and missiles." I've tried a multitude of similar games to try and get something that feels "right." Armored Core had a ridiculous difficulty curve, and the controls weren't intuitive. Mechassault had easy controls, but it felt way too dumbed down and unsatisfying. Chromehounds almost did it, but it was primarily online, and by the time I got around to picking it up, the servers were offline.

As soon as I heard about MW:O, I perked up. And the more I read about it, and learn about it, the more excited I get about the idea of playing it. And I've read through Sarna quite a bit because of it.

[BarHaid]

Heh, I had the exact same Chomehounds experience. Too little, too late. I've been jonesing for a GOOD robot game ever since.

[TheCerpent]

I played the Chromehounds "Campaign", for what it's worth.

My best 'Hound style? Artillery. My chosen Founder's Mech? Take a wild guess.

[Brenden]

thontor, on 18 July 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

The numbers represent how many hexes the mech can move per turn in the tabletop game. Each hex is 30 meters across and each turn represents 10 seconds. If you want to convert to kph just multiply the number by 10.8

Ah, so that means if the Panthar is running at a speed of 6 will be able to move six paces (hexes) in any direction? Sounds interesting.

[Pvt Dancer]

Eh... the Panther is really a light direct fire support mech. The Panther is the Hunchback of the lights, and much like the Hunchback you have the problem of "I can do the same thing with a different mech of the same tonnage". Sure, but just remember to do it on the Jenner your going to end up with the same mech. There is a reason why the Jenner doesn't have PPCs, because that is how the game was made... to give folk a real selection of mechs to play with. It wouldn't be fun if there was only one mech per wieght class.

Do I want a Panther? Yes. I think it should be in the game, along with every other mech from the 3025 TRO.

[Brenden]

Pvt Dancer, on 18 July 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

Eh... the Panther is really a light direct fire support mech. The Panther is the Hunchback of the lights, and much like the Hunchback you have the problem of "I can do the same thing with a different mech of the same tonnage". Sure, but just remember to do it on the Jenner your going to end up with the same mech. There is a reason why the Jenner doesn't have PPCs, because that is how the game was made... to give folk a real selection of mechs to play with. It wouldn't be fun if there was only one mech per wieght class.

Do I want a Panther? Yes. I think it should be in the game, along with every other mech from the 3025 TRO.

Think we could ever get a Chameleon?

[BarHaid]

A really rough rule of thumb: whenever anyone talks a bout mech speed in single digits, just add a zero on the end to get the mech's speed.

Of course jumping MPs are a different matter entirely...

[Brenden]

BarHaid, on 18 July 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

A really rough rule of thumb: whenever anyone talks a bout mech speed in single digits, just add a zero on the end to get the mech's speed.

Of course jumping MPs are a different matter entirely...

Thank you Barhand. Would you like to see the Panther in the online?
I'd like to see the Chameleon. Would be nice to see an all Laser Boat Medium besides a Light.

[Pvt Dancer]

Brenden, on 18 July 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

Ah, so that means if the Panthar is running at a speed of 6 will be able to move six paces (hexes) in any direction? Sounds interesting.

Sort of. The board was a hex map. Every turn facing cost a point of movement. Other things cost movement points to... light woods cost a single MP, heavy woods cost 2, and things like elevation changes cost MPs as well. But if you were going down a straight line, you could indeed run 6 hexs for your turn.

[Pvt Dancer]

Brenden, on 18 July 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

Think we could ever get a Chameleon?

Dunno... they have broke out of the 3025TRO only twice with the Raven and Cataphract. Chameleon wasn't in the 3025TRO though. The 3025TRO is the core old school book with 13 of the 15 mechs released out of it. Odds are any new mechs will be 3025 mechs till that book is finished.

Edited by Pvt Dancer, 18 July 2012 - 09:37 PM.

[Ken Moore]

House Kurita was in love with the Panther! They would have whole lances of them mixed with Catapults and Dragons as backup. Then you go with the 2k variant of the Catapult and the Grand Dragon design and you better be near a large solid object to hide behind when the PPC's start firing!

[Brenden]

Pvt Dancer, on 18 July 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

Dunno... they have broke out of the 3025TRO twice with the Raven and Cataphract. Chameleon wasn't in the 3025TRO though.

Interesting.. I think they are still selling Technical Readout: 3050, with the two Timber Wolves on the front firing at the guy who didn't give a single **** that day and was too cool to look at the explosion.
Also, the Chameleon was made sometime in the 30th as a training 'mech, so I assume they would still have it around. Pretty nice too.
One large laser, two medium, three small, jump jets and machine guns. Good training mech. Also ten single heat sinks.

[Burnsidhe]

In a Scout lance, the Panther would be the 'heavy' 'mech. It's pretty effective in that role. Other Light mechs would handle the speedster duties, and then draw the enemies towards the Panther, which would then light them up with its PPC and jump/snipe.

GIven that the forces were often balanced by tonnage, this worked pretty well.

[Brenden]

Burnsidhe, on 18 July 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

In a Scout lance, the Panther would be the 'heavy' 'mech. It's pretty effective in that role. Other Light mechs would handle the speedster duties, and then draw the enemies towards the Panther, which would then light them up with its PPC and jump/snipe.

GIven that the forces were often balanced by tonnage, this worked pretty well.

Could it also work as a command 'mech and/or sniper-support-direct fire and spotter, if the PPC was downgraded to a Large Pulse Laser and the speed increased?

[Pvt Dancer]

Brenden, on 18 July 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

Interesting.. I think they are still selling Technical Readout: 3050, with the two Timber Wolves on the front firing at the guy who didn't give a single **** that day and was too cool to look at the explosion.
Also, the Chameleon was made sometime in the 30th as a training 'mech, so I assume they would still have it around. Pretty nice too.
One large laser, two medium, three small, jump jets and machine guns. Good training mech. Also ten single heat sinks.

I know the fluff... the mech didn't exist till Crecent Hawk's Revenge and it took some time before it was added into a TRO because people liked it. It sort of defeated the purpose as mechs were suppose to be so rare that 'training mechs' wouldn't exist... they would be to valuable. Personally, that mech is over gunned with no heat sinks or armor to rerally be viable without major over-hauling.

[Burnsidhe]

It probably could, but there are other 'mechs whose standard unmodified loadout made them better for the spotter role. In light lances, the Panther was often piloted by the highest ranking Kurita soldier in the lance, so it does serve as a "command" mech of sorts.

[BarHaid]

Brenden, on 18 July 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

Thank you Barhand. Would you like to see the Panther in the online?
I'd like to see the Chameleon. Would be nice to see an all Laser Boat Medium besides a Light.

Oh Hells yes! The Panther is a vicious machine. Looks are important, and I like the humanoid style.

[Ashla Mason]

I'd be lying if i said that part of why I suggest it is to **** off fans of the urbanmech since the panther is objectively supperior to it in every way.