127 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Simbacca, on 24 October 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

Jump Jets

=More on mech higher it goes AND faster the acceleration. Thus players who spend the tonnage for proper Jump Jetting gain the benefit. As originally part of the nerf was to deal with mounting a single JJ for manoeuvre purposes.

=To deal with poptarting - the aiming point jitters around. Thus extreme close range poptart attacks will be unaffected, but sniping poptarting (which was the true problem) is remains ineffectual.

Exactly. I am 100% behind making it so that if you want to actually have useful and usable jump jets, you have to mount the maximum or near the maximum amount of JJs. In fact I believe in TT you had to mount enough JJs to match your walking movement speed at the minimum to be able to jump so the rule should be something like them requiring a minimum of 3 JJs to have any vertical lift and then for each JJ past 3 you get more usefulness and height.

Also I always point to my Heavy Metal when people complain about JJs. For the Heavy Metal, a 90 ton Assault mech, to really have any useful JJ capability prior to the nerfs, it had to mount the absolutely largest engine it could carry plus mount 5 JJs, each weighing 2 tons each. To get useful Jump capability out of that mech I ended up devoting something like 15 maybe 20 tons of my available space to JJs instead of devoting that weight to weapons and DHS. If your investing that sort of tonnage, you should get a benefit equal to that tonnage investment. The Hoverjets Assault mechs get now, aren't worth the investing the 10 tons toward the weight of the JJs..

Edited by Viktor Drake, 25 October 2016 - 12:40 PM.

[TheArisen]

Appogee, on 24 October 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

JJs are fine as is.

There are enough Gundam games out if you want to play Flying Robots. This is A BattleTech Game.

Or so we're told

Flying shouldn't be a thing obviously but bear in mind mechs in lore can jump over 90 meters in one jump, & that's for fattys.

[Y E O N N E]

Only for Assaults. Nobody else really needs it.

[TheArisen]

El Bandito, on 24 October 2016 - 09:11 PM, said:

I do not mind improving JJ thrust, but I do not want the old days back, where mechs could jump well even when equipping a single JJ. Therefore, I propose that JJs become increasingly potent the more JJs you equip. For example 3 JJs will offer 4-5 times more thrust than a single JJ. Then people are gonna have REAL FUN with the 12 JJ Spider-5V.

This is a good idea, one of the poptart era problems was people could poptart with 1 or 2 JJ.

[C E Dwyer]

I'm not sure what you mean by un-nerfed JJ scaling back to the bad old days of one JJ and your clearly 30 stories no, that was quite plainly broken and needed a fix.

Yes to a sensible reintroduction, Three JJ's on a small Assault, should be giving it a good umph to make them useful for spreading damage and clearing the heads of other mechs.

[C E Dwyer]

Appogee, on 24 October 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

Good. So we are in agreement then. There is no reason to redo Jump Jets.

Afraid not, there's reason enough to make jump jets work, as there are currently mechs that do more pin point that can pop tart, than the mechs that JJ were nerfed over.

JJ's that are more than hover jets, give you another way of spreading damage, if they are powerful enough, there ism ore to JJ's than Poptarts

[Y E O N N E]

More powerful JJs also increase the performance delta of good 'Mechs that have them over those that don't.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 25 October 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

Only for Assaults. Nobody else really needs it.

Lights actually need this.

The math suggests that Lights are not actually the beneficiary of the system as they should fly a bit better than they do now.

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 25 October 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

Lights actually need this.

The math suggests that Lights are not actually the beneficiary of the system as they should fly a bit better than they do now.

But they don't *need* to fly better than they do now.

And again, that just increases the delta between the haves and have-nots.

[Mcgral18]

El Bandito, on 24 October 2016 - 09:11 PM, said:

I do not mind improving JJ thrust, but I do not want the old days back, where mechs could jump well even when equipping a single JJ. Therefore, I propose that JJs become increasingly potent the more JJs you equip. For example 3 JJs will offer 4-5 times more thrust than a single JJ. Then people are gonna have REAL FUN with the 12 JJ Spider-5V.

The linear increase is rather rubbish


There's also the case of the 2 cap HoverJets™ which do nearly nothing.

[Corrado]

i'd give JJ quirks to mechs that needs it. shadowcats, hunchie-iic and other already good frogs dont need other buffs.

[Mystere]

Corrado, on 25 October 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

i'd give JJ quirks to mechs that needs it. shadowcats, hunchie-iic and other already good frogs dont need other buffs.

Hmm. I don't know how well I am going to react to even more quirks. As others have already said in other threads, quirks are a lazy way to balancing.

Edited by Mystere, 25 October 2016 - 02:42 PM.

[Coralld]

I want improved JJ as well as long as there is a plan to deal with the 1t poptart, I mean, Gorilla in the room.
I personally think extending the JJ shake for an extra .5 sec should suffice and an increase to forward jump distance.
This would emphasise it's use as equipment that is meant to be used for mobility, not being a bouncing rocket powered pogo stick of doom and bad, stale game play.

Edited by Coralld, 25 October 2016 - 05:41 PM.

[Livestick]

Absolutely. Just say no to Hover Jets.

[Steve Pryde]

Appogee, on 24 October 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

JJs are fine as is.

There are enough Gundam games out if you want to play Flying Robots. This is A BattleTech Game.

Or so we're told

Sorry but in MWO u can't even lift properly. In Battletech one jump jet could carry u like 30 meters. In MWO a Dire Wolf with 3 jump jets can't even lift over another heavy/assault mech.

[CheeseThief]

I don't want to see the bounciness of heavies and assaults returned to what it used to be but I wouldn't mind the no-turning-whilst-jumping nerf rescinded, I do miss that brawler mobility.

Quote

Sorry but in MWO u can't even lift properly. In Battletech one jump jet could carry u like 30 meters.

In battletech a single jump jet would move you a single hex so long as it was the same level or lower, 2 jump jets are needed to travel 1 hex over if that hex is 1 level higher. A mech is 2 levels high. Hoverjets are as per the boardgame rules so please don't bring them up here.

Edited by CheeseThief, 25 October 2016 - 06:06 PM.

[Requiemking]

CheeseThief, on 25 October 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

I don't want to see the bounciness of heavies and assaults returned to what it used to be but I wouldn't mind the no-turning-whilst-jumping nerf rescinded, I do miss that brawler mobility.

Which is why I would see Jump Jets retain reticle jitter, as well as adding reticle jitter for as long as you are in the air. Modern Poptarting involves stopping your jets mid-flight to take a shot, with zero consequences for doing so.

[Nighthawk513]

Yes, I would like to be able to jump in my clan mechs with 5-10% of my tonnage locked in JJs. Especially my lights.
And to preemptively nerf the resulting poptarts, make the reticle shake continue as long as your mech is in the air. Poptart issue solved. Feel free to attempt to hit me through the rng. Good luck with that...

[Requiemking]

Nighthawk513, on 25 October 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

Yes, I would like to be able to jump in my clan mechs with 5-10% of my tonnage locked in JJs. Especially my lights.
And to preemptively nerf the resulting poptarts, make the reticle shake continue as long as your mech is in the air. Poptart issue solved. Feel free to attempt to hit me through the rng. Good luck with that...

That is my entire point. I wish to return JJ dependant mechs to relevancy. However, my two main caveats are:

1. Reticle jitter for as long as you are in the air. This preemptively prevents Poptarts, or rather, Popart jump snipers, from becoming OP again. A close-quarters shot should hit, even should it be from mid-air.

2. Make the power of JJs scale with both number and weight. Mechs that have to deal with the rather debilitating Class 1 Jump Jet should not be punished for doing so, as the most any such mech can carry is four jets.

[4rcs1ne]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. A huge step in improving jumpjets would be to make the in game acceleration due to gravity 9.81m/s^2(32.2ft/s^2) rather than 32.2 m/s^2. The very fact PGI would mix up units like that makes the engineer inside me cringe.