338 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Dee Eight, on 28 October 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

Yes I've said it isn't true because the principal data being relied on were leaderboards events where there was known wholesale cheating going on, by organised & coordinated groups repeatedly dropping together to farm one another, as well as players using new alt accounts to game the matchmaker to put themselves in lower tiers against less experienced players. There were threads upon threads about it at the time the leaderboards happened and it kept on happening with every leaderboard event. PGI apparently paid attention because the latest one for the huntsman, they took the 1000MC and 5 million Cbill rewards away and POOF... all that magically stopped because it was no longer worth the effort just to get a single cockpit item.

Players in the kodiak leaderboard in particular took advantage of the fact that there was no ghost heat being applied to 3 or more Ultra-10s firing together as there was supposed to be, and even if it had been, it was minimal. PGI corrected that error in the coding already, and also dramatically hiked the ghost heat levels as well. They also apparently added a new bit of code that treats a pair and a single ultra-10, fired close enough together to trigger ghost heat, to also count it as if SIX had fired at once if you double-tapped them too close together, with appropriate ghost heat. So instead of 17 heat twice, you get 87 heat.

Thus it is now much harder, to achieve the results in the mech, that were being put up months ago, under different coding, and without the benefit of deliberately cheating/flaunting of the event rules. But yes, by all means, keep relying on old flawed data to prove your theories.

Additionally...for the first kodiak launch leaderboard... the game was experiencing MASSIVE server wide QP disconnects of entire teams / matches. If you knew it was happening, restarted your client and then re-joined the match, you could often an entire enemy team of standing still targets in their drop zones, who could then be farmed for all the scores you needed to vault up the leaderboard. Since it was happening so often, you could sync drop teams together during off hours, have everyone that was going to be farmed execute a disconnect from match (easy to coordinate over TS chat without any record in the match logs), and then blame it on a server error if PGI looks into it. A few folks have brought up WoT tanks that were OP. Funny how they didn't mention the organized cheating using the exact same methods that went on over on that game during leaderboard events. I've seen server issues since then where that still happens occassionally in QP, though not with the every other game frequency it was during may.

I had this match result from one of those mass disconnect errors in solo QP during that May kodiak leaderboard event. Eventually 5 of 24 players in that game did reconnect, and our team which had a couple revivals first ultimately lost, but even though I was in a kodiak, I stood BEHIND the enemy mechs to kill them quicker with less ammo needed to be used because I wasn't gaming the damage scores to pump my match up, and also I wasn't the only one on my team who'd revived and was trying to take the enemy team out quick also (there was a TBR player with me who managed most of the damage into one of them and killing blowed another which is why its 8 killing blows 1 assist and only 7 solo/kmdd). So my leaderboard score for that fluke game was 538. And yet folks were posting leaderboard results on mechs where they did such scores TEN times in one day. If you look at the August Epic Assaults and WotW leaderboards, there's a distinct group of players who posted standout scores well above the curve that others were producing, and they've consistently done that in many leaderboard events with other mechs. But ohhhh noo...it must strictly be the KDK-3 is overpowered... couldn't possibly be cheaters who skew the results.

Oh, the cheaters excuse. Yes, let's denigrate others for naturally doing better than you. That's the best way of proving your point!

[Zergling]

Heh, somehow 1000 MC and 5 million cbills is worth organized cheating and risking bans for. This is an incredibly amusing claim, 'cause that reward sure as hell isn't worth the amount of effort it would take.
Sounds like someone is just jealous that other players scored better than him, so instead of admitting he's bad, he comes up with conspiracy theories to explain away the results.

But hay, the ghost heat nerfs sure didn't hurt the Kodiak in the Weight of the World leaderboard event, where 9 of the top 10 assault places were Kodiaks, and 33 out of 75 were Kodiaks, nearly 3 times as many as the next most common mech in that leaderboard, the Dire Wolf at 13 places.

And waddayaknow, he's been a KDK-3 player all along. Turns out the whole reason he is defending it as 'not OP' is that he doesn't want his crutch taken away.

Edited by Zergling, 28 October 2016 - 08:56 AM.

[BCAW]

Dee Eight, on 27 October 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:

Again you're wrong...they're not advocating for white knight status to take away their own advantage. They're advocating to take away advantages from OTHER players who they are threatened by having the same "easymode" mech. How dare people PAY to fast track their results.


You mean the leaderboard events that were cheated upon by alt accounting to game the matchmaker and wholesale coordinated group farming ? Those leaderboards?

Your first point... what? How about lets think logically for a second here.
If the situation is in one's favor, and one's goal is to maintain their lead and the status quo, why would one want to alter the situation? The logical conclusion here is that one would try to keep the situation the way it is. Kind of like how some people in thread is doing. And do you honestly think the better pilots would feel threatened by the lesser pilots using the same mech as them?

Discrediting hard, solid statistics when the statistics are not in their favor. Sounds like a certain unsavory individual running for U.S. presidency at the moment. You are making yourself look just as intelligent as the person I'm referring to.

[Zergling]

Oh, the leaderboard events statistical analysis is from the weight class leaderboards; the assault leaderboard event occured AFTER the ghost heat nerf to UAC10 dakka (epic assault leaderboard was in August; nerf appears to have occured in July).

In other words, the statistics prove the KDK-3 is overpowered even after the nerf.


EDIT: yep, the UAC10 nerf occured with the Viper patch, July 19 http://mwomercs.com/...-1479-19jul2016

Assault Leaderboard event was August 11 to 17: http://mwomercs.com/...t=201608assault
Weight of the World event was August 19 to 23: http://mwomercs.com/...t=201608assault

The statistical analysis of leaderboards doesn't use the Kodiak leaderboard from when it was released, but the assault leaderboard data, which was after the nerf.

Edited by Zergling, 28 October 2016 - 08:46 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Zergling, on 28 October 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

Heh, somehow 1000 MC and 5 million cbills is worth organized cheating and risking bans for. This is incredibly amusing, 'cause that reward sure as hell isn't worth the amount of effort it would take.
Sounds like someone is just jealous that other players scored better than him, so instead of admitting he's bad, he comes up with conspiracy theories to explain away the results.

PGI won't ban anyone anymore for cheating, especially not folks who buy mech packs with alternate accounts. But yes...just dismiss me because you have no logical explanation for why there's a dramatic upsurge of scores in the top 10s of the leaderboards compared to the linear curve that runs from 11th to 75th score. Or why some players happen to have 3rd and 4th alternate accounts which are only used in leaderboard events.

Quote

But hay, the ghost heat nerfs sure didn't hurt the Kodiak in the Weight of the World leaderboard event, where 9 of the top 10 assault places were Kodiaks, and 33 out of 75 were Kodiaks, nearly 3 times as many as the next most common mech in that leaderboard, the Dire Wolf at 13 places.

Yes...but look at the curve the scores followed.... 5th to 73rd (the lowest kodiak) of assaults went from 4121 to 3084. Colonel Oneill who is consistently at the top of the QP leaderboards both in wins and and W/L ratios, only managed a 3526 in a Kodiak...yet 3rd thru 1st in kodiaks also are 1000 to 1800 score higher. Yeah that's totally plausible to achieve completely legitimately. And I bet you also believe the election is rigged against Donald Trump.

Quote

And waddayaknow, he's been a KDK-3 player all along. Turns out the whole reason he is defending it as 'not OP' is that he doesn't want his crutch taken away.

Repeatedly saying that lie won't make it true, no matter how often you say it. I've played my KDK-3 less than ten games so far this month. After the kodiak leaderboards and master skilling all of my kodiaks, they became garage queens as I moved onto other mechs.

[Baulven]

Mawai, on 28 October 2016 - 06:12 AM, said:

No. Anyone can contribute but be prepared if you don't have a solid basis for your opinion beyond ... "It seems to me ..."

All that these folks have said ... other than the insults that appear to have started flying is the following.

"Based on our individual experiences and the numbers we can show over a statistically significant number of matches, the KDK appears to outperform any other assault mech for us. " ... and there are quite a few who agree and can show numbers to support this.

"Based on a much larger sample size from leaderboard events, the Kodiak performs better than any other assault"

All you have said is ... NO, this is NOT true ... you have tried attacking their data ... but there is nothing to attack ... the numbers are what they are and without PGI stepping in that is all we have. You have NOT presented numbers that indicate that in general or for specific individuals other than yourself that the the KDK-3 under performs.

Perhaps you are so adamant because the KDK does not perform well for you. I have a bunch of mechs that other folks seem to be able to get to jump through hoops that I can't even get to crawl .. so it isn't surprising that good mechs don't work for everyone.

Anyway, the bottom line is that the available data appears to support the conclusion that the KDK is the best and most effective assault mech at the moment (replacing the Dire Whale in that position).



P.S. I'd also like to add one caveat ... tier does make some difference. LRMs can be a very effective route to high match score and high damage in some tiers. At higher tiers, folks do a better job of taking cover and minimizing opportunities to earn match score using LRMs. This can cause a shift to preferred direct fire builds with some LRM support since (at least in my experience) LRMs are great at suppressing opposing fire and helping to break up or slow an opposing push ... the sound and noise distraction of being hit by LRMs causes most players to turtle and head for cover. At lower tiers, some folks might find an LRM Warhawk more effective for their playstyle than a direct fire Kodiak. However, that does not change the relative average effectiveness of the Kodiak to the wider player base.

Kodiak 3. Not the kodiak. For the love of all that is holy please stop trying to get the rest of the chassis, which clearly isn't OP, nerfed into the ground because the KDK3 touched the paper roll in the naughty bits.

Edited by Baulven, 28 October 2016 - 09:12 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Let me get this straight Dee. You believe the leaderboard data can't be trusted to show Kodiak outperformance because their was a conspiracy amongst a whole bunch of folks running Kodiaks to cheat their way into the top-5 (thus ensuring top prizes)?

In the Assaults event... According to my notes only at the time only 12.9% (97 out of the 750 who ranked on the ten IS assault builds) IS assault pilots scored higher than the 75th ranked score on a Kodiak. On the Clan side it is still pretty brutal. Only 20% of the other placers in non-Kodiak Clan assaults would have beat the 75th ranked Kodiak score. The Dire Wolf being far and away the best with a respectable 31 pilots beating the lowest placing Kodiak score. There were 0 pilots running Victors or Zeus's that beat the 75th ranking Kodiak score.

If cheating in this event was a good plan. It would have been far better done in the lower scoring mechs...you wouldn't have had as much "cheating competition" (the Top 75 all put up monster scores) to score as high in order to get into the top 5 (and thus get top prizes). The thought that folks cheated on the Kodiak and not the other mechs (which would have boosted their scores and not made the Kodiak such an outlier) is ludicrous.

C'mon man... You can't truly believe this is what boosted the Kodiak to OP status in that event. However, if you somehow do.. well...just bless your heart...

[Mystere]

visionGT4, on 28 October 2016 - 03:36 AM, said:

Remove clan tech?

I sure hope you have the bank account required to refund anyone and everyone who bought Clan stuff for daring to suggest such a wonderful idea.

[Widowmaker1981]

Dee Eight, on 28 October 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

PGI won't ban anyone anymore for cheating, especially not folks who buy mech packs with alternate accounts. But yes...just dismiss me because you have no logical explanation for why there's a dramatic upsurge of scores in the top 10s of the leaderboards compared to the linear curve that runs from 11th to 75th score. Or why some players happen to have 3rd and 4th alternate accounts which are only used in leaderboard events.

Yes...but look at the curve the scores followed.... 5th to 73rd (the lowest kodiak) of assaults went from 4121 to 3084. Colonel Oneill who is consistently at the top of the QP leaderboards both in wins and and W/L ratios, only managed a 3526 in a Kodiak...yet 3rd thru 1st in kodiaks also are 1000 to 1800 score higher. Yeah that's totally plausible to achieve completely legitimately. And I bet you also believe the election is rigged against Donald Trump.

Thats extremely dirty, but not cheating as such. If i really wanted to top a leaderboard event, i would make an alt, deliberately do terribly for the games while cadet bonus is still going to avoid the PSR boost, and then id have a T5 alt to play in tournaments. The scoring system makes no differentiation between the tier of the game being played, and a good player in T5 can get 1000+ damage games every game in pretty much any mech.

Dee Eight, on 28 October 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

Repeatedly saying that lie won't make it true, no matter how often you say it. I've played my KDK-3 less than ten games so far this month. After the kodiak leaderboards and master skilling all of my kodiaks, they became garage queens as I moved onto other mechs.

Yeah, but your complete denial of the obvious reality of the fact that the Kodiak-3 is by far and away the best assault mech in the game does make it seem you are defending it for personal gain reasons. Its either that or stupidity.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 28 October 2016 - 09:16 AM.

[El Bandito]

Widowmaker1981, on 28 October 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Yeah, but your complete denial of the obvious reality of the fact that the Kodiak-3 is by far and away the best assault mech in the game does make it seem you are defending it for personal gain reasons. Its either that or stupidity.

I'd follow Hanlon's Razor on this.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

is the kodiak 3 OP?

probably slightly yes, it definitely holds top spot among assaults.

is the kodiak 3 power creep?

in terms of raw firepower no, in terms of a mix of firepower, hardpoints, speed and tankiness then yes. (but anyone who reads sarna and knows about the kodiak knew it would likely be better than all previous assaults period)

Is it truly bad for the game to have an assault that scares the living daylights out of all others? or as others have put "im afraid of no assault in my heavies lights and mediums except the kodiak 3, literally NO assault scares me except the kodiak 3"


well one has to ask...... why is it that when we finally get a mech that is truly worthy of the moniker "assault" we all flip and lose our ****?

shouldn't an atlas be scary? shouldn't victors, gargles, awesomes and all other assaults for the most part have an edge over heavies?

cuz the way i see it heavies have been OP for a very long time. i mean i fear none in my timbers, not lights, not mediums and most definitely not the vast majority of assaults.

really stop and think about it, what other assaults are even real assault mechs? a couple of meta builds sure but no assault has any real edge over heavies, and all assaults are the victims of rabid locust packs.

not saying the kodiak 3 is totally fine, just trying to point out that we have never had a "real" assault before and now that we have one, you know a mech so terrifying that you HAVE to fight it strategically, you HAVE to out flank it, poke it in the back, you simply CANNOT face tank it and expect to win.

i would say +1 to PGI because honestly im not afraid of any assault other than a kodiak 3 either, (mind you i still toss their salads regularly) and its about time we got some of those "terrifying towers of guns and steel" that are supposedly called "assaults".

Edited by Col Jaime Wolf, 28 October 2016 - 09:25 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Zergling, on 28 October 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

Oh, the leaderboard events statistical analysis is from the weight class leaderboards; the assault leaderboard event occured AFTER the ghost heat nerf to UAC10 dakka (epic assault leaderboard was in August; nerf appears to have occured in July).

In other words, the statistics prove the KDK-3 is overpowered even after the nerf.


EDIT: yep, the UAC10 nerf occured with the Viper patch, July 19 http://mwomercs.com/...-1479-19jul2016

Assault Leaderboard event was August 11 to 17: http://mwomercs.com/...t=201608assault
Weight of the World event was August 19 to 23: http://mwomercs.com/...t=201608assault

The statistical analysis of leaderboards doesn't use the Kodiak leaderboard from when it was released, but the assault leaderboard data, which was after the nerf.

So cheated scores = valid statistics then ? That most of the kodiaks scored below 4000 during the WotW event (without identifying the variants used) and that's right where most other kodiak variants scored in its launch leaderboards... so what...your premise is that EVERY kodiak in the epic assaults kodiak leaderboard or weight of the worlds assault leaderboard was a KDK-3 ?

Okay fine then. Clearly there's no point in wasting my time any further trying to discuss this with you then if that's your evidence.

[Widowmaker1981]

Col Jaime Wolf, on 28 October 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

is the kodiak 3 OP?

probably slightly yes, it definitely holds top spot among assaults.

is the kodiak 3 power creep?

in terms of raw firepower no, in terms of a mix of firepower, hardpoints, speed and tankiness then yes. (but anyone who reads sarna and knows about the kodiak knew it would likely be better than all previous assaults period)

Is it truly bad for the game to have an assault that scares the living daylights out of all others? or as others have put "im afraid of no assault in my heavies lights and mediums except the kodiak 3, literally NO assault scares me except the kodiak 3"


well one has to ask...... why is it that when we finally get a mech that is truly worthy of the moniker "assault" we all flip and lose our ****?

shouldnt an atlas be scary? shouldnt victors, gargles, awesomes and all other assaults for the most part have an edge over heavies?

cuz the way i see it heavies have been OP for a very long time.

really stop and think about it what other assaults are even real assault mechs? a couple of meta builds sure but no assault has any real edge over heavies, and all assaults are the victims of rabid locust packs.

not saying the kodiak 3 is totally fine, just trying to point out that we have never had a "real" assault before and now that we have one, you know a mech so terrifying that you HAVE to fight it strategically, you HAVE to out flank it, poke it in the back, you simply CANNOT face tank it and expect to win.

i would say +1 to PGI because honestly im not afraid of any assault other than a kodiak 3 either, (mind you i still toss their salads regularly) and its about time we got some of those "terrifying towers of guns and steel" that are supposedly called "assaults".

I kind of agree with the sentiment of this, though not the extremity (and a surpise Atlas is most definitely scary. I have definitely said "oh sh!t Atlas!" a few seconds before being vaporised a couple of times)

Thats why i advocate for simply removing its quirks and restraining its torso twist a bit, and then buffing the other assaults to a level where they are viable alternatives.

[Zergling]

Dee Eight, on 28 October 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

PGI won't ban anyone anymore for cheating, especially not folks who buy mech packs with alternate accounts.

And you have this inside knowledge of PGI's actions... how, exactly?

Don't you know that PGI has publicly announced players being banned for using cheats?

Dee Eight, on 28 October 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

But yes...just dismiss me because you have no logical explanation for why there's a dramatic upsurge of scores in the top 10s of the leaderboards compared to the linear curve that runs from 11th to 75th score.

This claim one is possible to verify.

Average for Kodiak, all 75 places = 3689
Average for Dire Wolf, all 75 places = 3229
Average for Kodiak, places 11 to 75 only = 3540
Average for Dire Wolf, places 11 to 75 only = 3136

So even with the top 10 removes from the Kodiak results, it still beats the Dire Wolf. Hell, it beats the Dire Wolf even without the top 10 places for the Dire Wolf removed!

So no, there isn't any 'dramatic upsurge in scores in the top 10s of the leaderboards' that is somehow proof of cheating that somehow magically only affected the Kodiak.

Dee Eight, on 28 October 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

Or why some players happen to have 3rd and 4th alternate accounts which are only used in leaderboard events.

And you have proof of that?

FYI, just because their names don't show up in leaderboards doesn't mean they are alt accounts; they may be CW players that don't play the regular solo or group queue.

Dee Eight, on 28 October 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

Yes...but look at the curve the scores followed.... 5th to 73rd (the lowest kodiak) of assaults went from 4121 to 3084. Colonel Oneill who is consistently at the top of the QP leaderboards both in wins and and W/L ratios, only managed a 3526 in a Kodiak...yet 3rd thru 1st in kodiaks also are 1000 to 1800 score higher. Yeah that's totally plausible to achieve completely legitimately.

Yes, it is perfectly achievable legitimately; you are assuming a normal distribution when there is a bellcurve distribution with scores.

Higher scores will simply be less common than average scores, because they are substantially harder to achieve.

And compare Colonel Oneill's leaderboard stats in assaults:
Season 1 = 2.84 W/L, 5.52 K/D, 494 average match score
Season 2 = 2.45 W/L, 4.71 K/D, 447 average match score
Season 3 = 4.61 W/L, 7.28 K/D, 499 average match score
Season 4 = 3.51 W/L, 5.07 K/D, 469 average match score

To S3B, the #1 in the Weight of the World event:
Season 1 = 5.00 W/L, 10.38 K/D, 606 average match score
Season 2 = 3.38 W/L, 9.90 K/D, 696 average match score
Season 3 = 4.40 W/L, 11.33 K/D, 707 average match score
Season 4 = no results

Colonel Oneill is certainly a great player, but S3B is producing much better scores, so it is entirely reasonable for S3B to score much higher than Colonel Oneill in that event.

[redacted]

Edited by Odanan, 13 November 2016 - 10:25 AM.
Redacted: insults

[SmithMPBT]

Col Jaime Wolf, on 28 October 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

is the kodiak 3 OP?

probably slightly yes, it definitely holds top spot among assaults.

is the kodiak 3 power creep?

in terms of raw firepower no, in terms of a mix of firepower, hardpoints, speed and tankiness then yes. (but anyone who reads sarna and knows about the kodiak knew it would likely be better than all previous assaults period)

Is it truly bad for the game to have an assault that scares the living daylights out of all others? or as others have put "im afraid of no assault in my heavies lights and mediums except the kodiak 3, literally NO assault scares me except the kodiak 3"


well one has to ask...... why is it that when we finally get a mech that is truly worthy of the moniker "assault" we all flip and lose our ****?

shouldn't an atlas be scary? shouldn't victors, gargles, awesomes and all other assaults for the most part have an edge over heavies?

cuz the way i see it heavies have been OP for a very long time. i mean i fear none in my timbers, not lights, not mediums and most definitely not the vast majority of assaults.

really stop and think about it, what other assaults are even real assault mechs? a couple of meta builds sure but no assault has any real edge over heavies, and all assaults are the victims of rabid locust packs.

not saying the kodiak 3 is totally fine, just trying to point out that we have never had a "real" assault before and now that we have one, you know a mech so terrifying that you HAVE to fight it strategically, you HAVE to out flank it, poke it in the back, you simply CANNOT face tank it and expect to win.

i would say +1 to PGI because honestly im not afraid of any assault other than a kodiak 3 either, (mind you i still toss their salads regularly) and its about time we got some of those "terrifying towers of guns and steel" that are supposedly called "assaults".

PGI isn't going to buff 50 other assault mechs just to bring them inline with the overwhelming OP abilities of the Kodiak 3. It's gotta be nerfed, there's no other solution.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

SmithMPBT, on 28 October 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

PGI isn't going to buff 50 other assault mechs just to bring them inline with the overwhelming OP abilities of the Kodiak 3. It's gotta be nerfed, there's no other solution.

see i think you missed the point, yes the kodiak 3 is the best assault no argument there, slightly OP? probably yes. but the OP abilities of heavies have long went unchecked, please just stop and think about this.

what are you most afraid of when piloting any assault including the kodiak 3? other kodiak 3's? or a light pack that spins you around and pokes you to death, an oxide/jenner IIC that slams you in the back in 1-2 hits and starts popping your torsos off.

what are you afraid of in heavies? other heavies. heavies can outflank almost anything, they carry the very best mix of speed, firepower, tankiness and agility, they fear no other weight class than their own.

again i think our total lack of proper assaults has skewed what we view as "acceptable", for far to long we have seen heavies as the top of the pack and now that their is one real assault that all mechs fear equally, an assault that is properly feared and can stand in the front lines of battle and win exactly what assault's are meant to do.

but what do we have for "meta" assaults? pocket brawlers (a good thing), and...... a bunch of poke banshees, battlemasters, stalkers and poke bears. all assaults are simply regulated to the poke war because they aren't real assaults that can take that ******* hill and beat the defenders back.

yes the kodiak 3 should probably be toned down a bit, but as you pointed out there are over 50 other assaults that are in dire need of of a pair of balls to fill their designed role.

Edited by Col Jaime Wolf, 28 October 2016 - 09:43 AM.

[Dee Eight]

And for those who keep whining I must be a bad player that's why I'm defending the Kodiak 3... while I no longer care for leaderboard event chasing due to how much continual organised cheating/dirty play is allowed to happen by PGI (I focused on the Battlemasters, Banshees and HGN/HGN2s during the epic assaults one knowing the cheating to come in the kodiaks), when I did care to chase prizes... I finished the Kodiak Spirit bear in 35th, the Kodiak 5 in 51st, the VPR-B in 57th, the VPR-C in 45th, the VPR-D in 17th, the Cyclops A(S) in 66th, the Cyclops A-DC in 69th, Cyclops P in 68th. I lost interest in them after that because again...same accounts kept putting in the same skewed results so clearly PGI wasn't going to actually ban/sanction those players (especially not as many are on the top final teams for their big world championship E-sports venture).

[SmithMPBT]

W

Col Jaime Wolf, on 28 October 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

see i think you missed the point, yes the kodiak 3 is the best assault no argument there, slightly OP? probably yes. but the OP abilities of heavies have long went unchecked, please just stop and think about this.

what are you most afraid of when piloting any assault including the kodiak 3? other kodiak 3's? or a light pack that spins you around and pokes you to death, an oxide/jenner IIC that slams you in the back in 1-2 hits and starts popping your torsos off.

what are you afraid of in heavies? other heavies. heavies can outflank almost anything, they carry the very best mix of speed, firepower, tankiness and agility, they fear no other weight class than their own.

again i think our total lack of proper assaults has skewed what we view as "acceptable", for far to long we have seen heavies as the top of the pack and now that their is one real assault that all mechs fear equally, an assault that is properly feared and can stand in the front lines of battle and win exactly what assault's are meant to do.

but what do we have for "meta" assaults? pocket brawlers (a good thing), and...... a bunch of poke banshees, battlemasters, stalkers and poke bears. all assaults are simply regulated to the poke war because they aren't real assaults that can take that ******* hill and beat the defenders back.

With 12 man teams, having 4 assaults with the abilities of Kodiaks would destroy game balance. Especially in QP, it would be like you said. Turn the corner and oh **** I'm dead, but occurring much more frequently. Mediums mechs are supposed to be the goto mechs in battletech lore, but that never happened here. Everything is about bigger better faster. Turning all assaults into OP murder machines, considering they represent 1/3 of mechs on the battlefield, is not the answer.

[Zergling]

Dee Eight, on 28 October 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

So cheated scores = valid statistics then ? That most of the kodiaks scored below 4000 during the WotW event (without identifying the variants used) and that's right where most other kodiak variants scored in its launch leaderboards...

It would be supremely foolish to assume identical results for both events /or for for them to be directly comparable, because despite them using an identical scoring system, they differ in two important ways.

Epic Assault had seperate leaderboards with 75 places for each mech, while Weight of the World shared a single 75 place leaderboard for all mechs.
And Epic Assault went for 7 days, versus only 5 days for Weight of the World.


In Weight of the World, high scoring mechs of one type squeeze out lower scoring mechs of other types, so trying to compare scores of one event just doesn't work.

Further, the shorter duration of that event means there was simply less time for players to generate high scores; it requires a good deal of persistence and luck (in addition to skill) to produce very high scores to qualify for that event.


The fact of the matter is that Kodiaks made up 42 of the 75 places, versus 14 of 75 for the Dire Wolf, the next most common mech (yes, I miscounted them in my previous post; I can admit a mistake).
Such an overwhelming majority of places being taken by Kodiaks is a very strong indication that the Kodiak is the best mech for making high scores, because it is performing better than other assaults.

Dee Eight, on 28 October 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

so what...your premise is that EVERY kodiak in the epic assaults kodiak leaderboard or weight of the worlds assault leaderboard was a KDK-3 ?

The assumption of everyone is that most, if not all, of the Kodiaks in those leaderboards are KDK-3s, as that is the most powerful variant.

If you are disagreeing with this, then you are saying that other Kodiaks are as overpowered as the KDK-3 and also need nerfing.
Many people, including many of those that believe the KDK-3 needs nerfing, would disagree with that.

Dee Eight, on 28 October 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

Okay fine then. Clearly there's no point in wasting my time any further trying to discuss this with you then if that's your evidence.

Given I have been effectively refuting all your arguments, it is about damn time you run out of them.

Dee Eight, on 28 October 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

And for those who keep whining I must be a bad player that's why I'm defending the Kodiak 3... while I no longer care for leaderboard event chasing due to how much continual organised cheating/dirty play is allowed to happen by PGI (I focused on the Battlemasters, Banshees and HGN/HGN2s during the epic assaults one knowing the cheating to come in the kodiaks), when I did care to chase prizes... I finished the Kodiak Spirit bear in 35th, the Kodiak 5 in 51st, the VPR-B in 57th, the VPR-C in 45th, the VPR-D in 17th, the Cyclops A(S) in 66th, the Cyclops A-DC in 69th, Cyclops P in 68th. I lost interest in them after that because again...same accounts kept putting in the same skewed results so clearly PGI wasn't going to actually ban/sanction those players (especially not as many are on the top final teams for their big world championship E-sports venture).

You have a severe case of 'sour grapes' over your failure to score in the assault weight class events. It just can't be possible in your mind that some people might actually be genuinely great at the game.


FYI, the Kodiak has no unusual upward distribution in scores compared to other mechs in that event.

Here are the averages of the top 10 places in each mech, versus overall average of all 75 places in each mech, then the top 10 averaged divided by the 75 average to give a number to the difference between the two averages.

Sorted by largest difference to the smallest:
Executioner = 3724 / 2709 / 1.375
Highlander = 3245 / 2403 / 1.351
Banshee = 3794 / 2810 / 1.350
Battlemaster = 4089 / 3087 / 1.324
Gargoyle = 3406 / 2624 / 1.298
Warhawk = 3725 / 2906 / 1.282
Kodiak = 4720 / 3689 / 1.279
Highlander IIC = 3541 / 2772 / 1.278
Victor = 2868 / 2252 / 1.274
Zeus = 3138 / 2489 / 1.261
Stalker = 3445 / 2774 / 1.242
Awesome = 3628 / 2951 / 1.229
King Crab = 3565 / 2928 / 1.218
Atlas = 3366 / 2779 / 1.211
Dire Wolf = 3890 / 3229 / 1.205
Mauler = 3623 / 3093 / 1.172

So the Kodiak is about middle of the pack in terms of 'upper place' divergence from the average, so if cheating did take place (which isn't likely), it caused an upward divergence from the average less for the Kodiak than 6 other mechs.

tl:dr Even if people did cheat in an event not worth cheating for, it didn't wouldn't affect the Kodiak more than other mechs, certainly not enough to skew its results to produce the much higher score the Kodiak had in that event.

Edited by Zergling, 28 October 2016 - 10:29 AM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

SmithMPBT, on 28 October 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

W
With 12 man teams, having 4 assaults with the abilities of Kodiaks would destroy game balance. Especially in QP, it would be like you said. Turn the corner and oh **** I'm dead, but occurring much more frequently. Mediums mechs are supposed to be the goto mechs in battletech lore, but that never happened here. Everything is about bigger better faster. Turning all assaults into OP murder machines, considering they represent 1/3 of mechs on the battlefield, is not the answer.

see you cant really bring 4 assaults in qp group (600 tons) unless you run 4 assaults and 8 lights, so ya...

also yes you should be punished for walking around a corner blindly with an instant death. something about a "thinking mans shooter".

i don't want to say it but alot of players need some serious "git gud", kodiaks are powerful yes but they are far from unbeatable. and like lrm boats their damage is inflated because of the nature of UAC's, yes they hurt, and yes they will kill you quick, but if your smart and stop acting like a deer that just got shined maybe you would realize like LRMS, kodiaks with UACs are only really good against bad players.

that's why EMP/lords/SJR use the gauss/erppc bear in competitive play because they realize this too.