35 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

in this case the SHC is hard Point Starved,
so for taking less Weapons shouldnt the SHC get abit of a Buff,

in this case if you take only Arm Weapons,
having no weapons in your RT you should get a -10-20% Energy Heat Gen,
so for having only 2Energy Max, you gain a little Boost in Energy heat Gen,
this would help X2-ERPPC and X2-LPL builds,

Should the SHC get abit of -Energy Heat Gen?


Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

[Fox With A Shotgun]

I would think that considering PGI was desperately stripping -% heat gen quirks from mechs not too long ago, it'd make more sense for them to up energy cooldown or something instead.

Remember that these -% heat gen quirks are -stupidly- powerful. 2 CERPPCs is already 7.50 heat/sec, and even a 10% E-heat reduction is 0.75 heat/sec bonus - an extra 5 C-DHS, or 5 tons worth of heatsinks.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Some heat reducing quirks on the Shadow Cat could be pretty nice. PPCs aren't that great on it at the moment due to overheating in a few shots. This is one of the reasons LPL tend to be so much better, being 2/3s the heat and putting out more damage, discounting splash.

Also maybe Paul could finally start adding in those ammo quirks he mentioned so the Shadow Cat can do some decent stuff with gauss.

Edited by Dakota1000, 23 October 2016 - 05:17 PM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Dakota1000, on 23 October 2016 - 05:17 PM, said:

Some heat reducing quirks on the Shadow Cat could be pretty nice. PPCs aren't that great on it at the moment due to overheating in a few shots. This is one of the reasons LPL tend to be so much better, being 2/3s the heat and putting out more damage, discounting splash.

Thing is with the SHC, it's also the hardpoint layouts that make it very unfavourable for PPCs vs. LPLs. Projectile convergence is terrible on it if you try to put both PPCs on the arms, because it's actually rather wide. Your shots will never both hit if you lead a target. This is why LPLs tend to be much better in general despite not being PPFLD; both of them will always hit as long as you track the target correctly. That, and the heat is absurd for the damage it does.

Putting one PPC on the torso and one on the arms doesn't solve the problem either, because then you have tracking delays between both of them when you do some last-second aim corrections.

Edited by Fox With A Shotgun, 23 October 2016 - 05:40 PM.

[El Bandito]

I was under the impression that Scat is already great at its job of sniping.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 23 October 2016 - 05:47 PM, said:

I was under the impression that Scat is already great at its job of sniping.

Its decent when using lasers, specifically large pulse lasers. It sucks with gauss or PPC due to either low ammo limits, convergence, or heat issues.

[El Bandito]

Dakota1000, on 23 October 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

Its decent when using lasers, specifically large pulse lasers. It sucks with gauss or PPC due to either low ammo limits, convergence, or heat issues.

Considering the fact its Prime config had Gauss, I think Gauss ammo quirk could be good for the fella.

[Ace Selin]

SHC getting nerfed next patch, PPC poptart too stronk

[N0ni]

El Bandito, on 23 October 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

Considering the fact its Prime config had Gauss, I think Gauss ammo quirk could be good for the fella.

The Prime and the P.

[Ghogiel]

Dakota1000, on 23 October 2016 - 05:17 PM, said:

Also maybe Paul could finally start adding in those ammo quirks he mentioned so the Shadow Cat can do some decent stuff with gauss.

He needs to do this sort of thing more if he is too scared to actually give quirks in fear of making things OP.

an extra 4 gauss shots won't break any thing on SHC for crying out loud

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 October 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

this would help X2-ERPPC and X2-LPL builds,

Why would 2x LPL need any help?

Ace Selin, on 23 October 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

SHC getting nerfed next patch, PPC poptart too stronk

Why poptart with SHC when you can pretend to be toast with a HBK?

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 23 October 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

Thing is with the SHC, it's also the hardpoint layouts that make it very unfavourable for PPCs vs. LPLs. Projectile convergence is terrible on it if you try to put both PPCs on the arms, because it's actually rather wide. Your shots will never both hit if you lead a target. This is why LPLs tend to be much better in general despite not being PPFLD; both of them will always hit as long as you track the target correctly. That, and the heat is absurd for the damage it does.

Putting one PPC on the torso and one on the arms doesn't solve the problem either, because then you have tracking delays between both of them when you do some last-second aim corrections.

Do you even SHC bro?
The only problem with PPCs on the SHC is they are too damned hot.

One in the RT and RA when the arms are LOCKED have no problems.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Boogie138, on 23 October 2016 - 07:51 PM, said:

Do you even SHC bro?
The only problem with PPCs on the SHC is they are too damned hot.

One in the RT and RA when the arms are LOCKED have no problems.

Locking RT and RA means that you're sacrificing the ability to make snap-shot last-second adjustments, critical for accurate shooting while poptarting.

I run two ERPPCs on a KFX sometimes, so yes, I know how damn hot it gets in these mechs. The two have pretty much the same amount of available DHS. Even two LPL is toasty. But if you're running two ERPPCs, you're supposed to fire off one or two volleys and then reposition - it'd cool off in that time. MASC helps a hell of a lot there, as does JJs.

Edited by Fox With A Shotgun, 23 October 2016 - 09:12 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

Remember that the clan erppc is 1t0n less than IS. Pretty nice quirk there especially if you count the ecm.

the SHC is not a poor mech on the clan side. The clan short bus mechs are the one other than new releases that get quirks (Kodiak is a WTF)

FYI I play 95% clan mechs.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 23 October 2016 - 09:11 PM, said:

Locking RT and RA means that you're sacrificing the ability to make snap-shot last-second adjustments, critical for accurate shooting while poptarting.

I run two ERPPCs on a KFX sometimes, so yes, I know how damn hot it gets in these mechs. The two have pretty much the same amount of available DHS. Even two LPL is toasty. But if you're running two ERPPCs, you're supposed to fire off one or two volleys and then reposition - it'd cool off in that time. MASC helps a hell of a lot there, as does JJs.

What the hell are you on about? The SHC does not even have a lower arm actuator, so keeping it unlocked only nets you straight line vertical movement. BFD.

Further, how the hell do you think the HBKIIC-A does twin PPCs?

[jjm1]

SHC does 2xLPL. and not much else.

Believe me I've tried it with everything, but nothing else comes close to that one build.

IMO It doesn't really need more energy quirks. You could add more energy points though, perhaps even an extra missile point. But what I really want is for the Gauss rifle builds to be half viable.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Boogie138, on 23 October 2016 - 09:31 PM, said:

What the hell are you on about? The SHC does not even have a lower arm actuator, so keeping it unlocked only nets you straight line vertical movement. BFD.

Further, how the hell do you think the HBKIIC-A does twin PPCs?

Lower arm actuators on arms that don't hold the weapons still count for a mech's overall horizontal arm movement range. How do you think the KFX-S RA still has horizontal mobility while having only upper arm actuators? SHC-Prime and SHC-P left arms have LAAs and Hand actuators, thus giving your RA of choice a 30 degree horizontal arm-only movement, even if the RA itself doesn't have LAAs and Hand actuators.

HBKs behave differently to SHCs. While they still poptart, they can't adjust their aim very well against faster moving targets. What I'm trying to point out here is that SHCs can have the potential to make fast adjustments during poptarting.

[William Mountbank]

I think I would rather have Gauss cooldown quirks than ammo quirks, since that weapon precludes having anything else on the mech, andt the moment, in a Gauss SHC it's hard to use up all the ammo over the course of a match because it's not possible to shoot fast enough.
The build reminds me of when the Spider 5D was still used a lot, to get any real damage require a relatively long match and no contact with enemy lights. Ie, not a great build at all.

[RestosIII]

William Mountbank, on 23 October 2016 - 11:16 PM, said:

I think I would rather have Gauss cooldown quirks than ammo quirks, since that weapon precludes having anything else on the mech, andt the moment, in a Gauss SHC it's hard to use up all the ammo over the course of a match because it's not possible to shoot fast enough.
The build reminds me of when the Spider 5D was still used a lot, to get any real damage require a relatively long match and no contact with enemy lights. Ie, not a great build at all.

Coming from someone that runs the SHC Prime lore loadout, I can say with all honesty that ammo while would be a beautiful blessing given from on high. Honestly, I feel like there should be MAJOR incentives for Gauss usage on the SHC anyways, just because of that being its iconic main weapon. But we can't have fun with lore builds now, can we?

Edited by RestosIII, 23 October 2016 - 11:31 PM.

[627]

Why not start balancing the weapons globally first before we throw quirks on every little bit of equipment? Quirks were born because the lowperforming mechs should get a *little* help, a small buff.

And what have we these days? Top of the line mechs start with quirks and people demand better quirks for all the mechs constantly.

Imo weapon quirks should be trashed completely, there should be only defensive/movement (or not yet existing ammo) quirks if any. A large laser should always be the same heat, same cooldown and the same range on all mechs without modules.

We had a PTS some time ago where we had no quirks (and I think the info-tech ideas and the ghost range for lasers and that stuff). That was actually quite nice to play around with. And if anyone screams but clans are OP without IS quirks then... nerf their weapons! Seriously, stop quirking mechs and start balancing...