57 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

Snowbluff, on 29 October 2016 - 11:51 PM, said:

CUAC isn't the optimal build. You'll inflate your damage number, but in most cases Goose Peepers will do better for killing enemies.


I always make sure to lay out a dreamcatcher before playing my CareBearStare. I don't want to catch any bad jujus if I already made myself a huge target.

The CUAC isn't made to open armor its made to get crits and faster kills, its significantly better than the IS UAC/5. And then factor in a KDK-3 can easilly run at 65.3 KPH and mount 2 cuac/10, 2 cuac/5 and then have 4 tons left for energery, 5 tons in DHS, and has 10 tons free for ammo. The mech is one hell of a broken chassis and MWO were idiots in how they built the mech. They gave it perfect convergence by placing the AC slots in the torso. They could have hampered the build by putting half the slots in the arms, but NOPE.

Edited by Rhent, 30 October 2016 - 11:46 AM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Rhent, on 30 October 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

The CUAC isn't made to open armor its made to get crits and faster kills, its significantly better than the IS UAC/5. And then factor in a KDK-3 can easilly run at 65.3 KPH and mount 2 cuac/10, 2 cuac/5 and then have 4 tons left for energery, 5 tons in DHS, and has 10 tons free for ammo. The mech is one hell of a broken chassis and MWO were idiots in how they built the mech. They gave it perfect convergence by placing the AC slots in the torso. They could have hampered the build by putting half the slots in the arms, but NOPE.

go look at the kodiak on sarna, it was always going to be a teir 1 assault out the gate.

- xl400 engine cap? check
- wicked high mounts even in cannon TT? check
- ridiculous amounts of firepower even in stock configs? check
- hard point city in almost every variant? check
- 100 ton clan mech that can change out ferro/endo/engine size? check

really people need to stop acting so surprised.

[Bud Crue]

Col Jaime Wolf, on 30 October 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

go look at the kodiak on sarna, it was always going to be a teir 1 assault out the gate.

- xl400 engine cap? check
- wicked high mounts even in cannon TT? check
- ridiculous amounts of firepower even in stock configs? check
- hard point city in almost every variant? check
- 100 ton clan mech that can change out ferro/endo/engine size? check

really people need to stop acting so surprised.

People are "surprised" to the extent that PGI has stated that every mech down to the variant level should be of equivalent value regardless of their role. Kodiak, especially the 3 is clearly OP (see EVERY leaderboard since it came out) and so folks assumed, given PGI's stated goal for mechs that something would be done. But they haven't, and frankly given the radio silence on this, it seems that they may not even be aware that this is an issue.

Meh. Maybe they will just nerf the Quickdraws, and drop the Uac quirks on some underperforming mechs to balance everything out. Its all good. No worries. They know best, etc.

Edited by Bud Crue, 30 October 2016 - 02:38 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

6 kodiaks, 1 direwolf and 1 Warhawk on the enemy team...lol

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Bud Crue, on 30 October 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

People are "surprised" to the extent that PGI has stated that every mech down to the variant level should be of equivalent value regardless of their role. Kodiak, especially the 3 is clearly OP (see EVERY leaderboard since it came out) and so folks assumed, given PGI's stated goal for mechs that something would be done. But they haven't, and frankly given the radio silence on this, it seems that they may not even be aware that this is an issue.

Meh. Maybe they will just nerf the Quickdraws, and drop the Uac quirks on some underperforming mechs to balance everything out. Its all good. No worries. They know best, etc.

im sure pgi knows the kodiak 3 is the best assault in the game, im also pretty certain they don't know what to do about it.

really its just got everything going for it and short of re positioning the hard points (something PGI has never done and will likely never do) or straight red text there really isnt anything they can do about it.

nerf clan uac's? well sucks for every mech not a kodiak.

nerf twist range/speed? kinda helps but a kodiak is basically all about face hugging the enemy to death so wont really help

nerf its engine cap? cant cuz it comes with an xl400

remove its current quirks? well have em its only +35 structure points and it wont really change anything.

nerf its jam chance? well **** all we have a ballistic centric mech here that cant even use 9/10 ballistic weapons. besides do you really want to see nothing but quad gauss kodiaks?

really it is the gold standard and nothing short of wrecking the whole thing with victor level nerfs will fix it. but ask yourself is that really how you want pgi to deal with problem mechs? just say "**** you" and leave it a headless chicken?

Edited by Col Jaime Wolf, 30 October 2016 - 02:53 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Did anyone mention that only 3 mechs scored more than 700 dmg in this match, and they were all KDK-3's?

Because if not, I'd like to point that out.

[Bud Crue]

Col Jaime Wolf, on 30 October 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

im sure pgi knows the kodiak 3 is the best assault in the game, im also pretty certain they don't know what to do about it.

really its just got everything going for it and short of re positioning the hard points (something PGI has never done and will likely never do) or straight red text there really isnt anything they can do about it.

nerf clan uac's? well sucks for every mech not a kodiak.

nerf twist range/speed? kinda helps but a kodiak is basically all about face hugging the enemy to death so wont really help

nerf its engine cap? cant cuz it comes with an xl400

remove its current quirks? well have em its only +35 structure points and it wont really change anything.

nerf its jam chance? well **** all we have a ballistic centric mech here that cant even use 9/10 ballistic weapons. besides do you really want to see nothing but quad gauss kodiaks?

really it is the gold standard and nothing short of wrecking the whole thing with victor level nerfs will fix it. but ask yourself is that really how you want pgi to deal with problem mechs? just say "**** you" and leave it a headless chicken?

Its their game and they are the ones who have stated that all mechs are supposed to be of equivalent value. They haven't managed it yet, nor will they, but they keep insisting that they have done this (see April and May townhalls of this year). Frankly don't care how they manage it but they better come up with a way to reign in the Kodiak-3. Given the demise of CW, and the resulting reality that all we have is QP, then over the long term why would anyone run anything but "the best mech"? Sure nostalgia, but that is only going to sell so much...especially since this is such a supreme e-sport. No all mechs need to be somewhat desirable or PGI's own stated goals for this game are doomed.

They're the devs. Fix it or not. Its up to them, but actions or lack thereof, have consequences.

(the e-sport crack was snark btw).

Edited by Bud Crue, 30 October 2016 - 03:08 PM.

[Rhent]

It's more about the Dev's lack of common sense, why would you put 4 Ballistic hard slots side torsos and then for good measure add in 4 energy slots to the arms? Tack in the ability to use endo/ferrous/xl and it just gets so much worse. The Dev's shown they don't play their own game well enough to realize a balance issue on a mech. All assaults so far with 4 ballistic slots int he torsos were slow as hell and that was the penalty, but in comes the Kodiak that can move at a brisk 65KPH and boat 4 big cuac's and the Devs didn't think OOPSIE.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Rhent, on 30 October 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

It's more about the Dev's lack of common sense, why would you put 4 Ballistic hard slots side torsos and then for good measure add in 4 energy slots to the arms? Tack in the ability to use endo/ferrous/xl and it just gets so much worse. The Dev's shown they don't play their own game well enough to realize a balance issue on a mech. All assaults so far with 4 ballistic slots int he torsos were slow as hell and that was the penalty, but in comes the Kodiak that can move at a brisk 65KPH and boat 4 big cuac's and the Devs didn't think OOPSIE.

stock TT kodiak 3 has 1 ballistic in each torso and 2 energy in each arm, really all pgi did was add another ballistic in each torso, which kinda makes sense since the only thing that sets the kodiak 3 apart from the others is its dual ballistic torso's.

even if it had stock hardpoints you could still run the dual gauss dual erppc smackdown build thats running in competitive play atm.

Edited by Col Jaime Wolf, 30 October 2016 - 05:25 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Mystere, on 30 October 2016 - 09:37 AM, said:

I am not one of those calling for the nerf of the KDK-3, but something like this should be considered an exploit.

I agree with a lot of what you say Mystere but the above statement is wrong. If PGI gave us the ability to choose high or low hardpoints you wouldnt see to ammo-less machine guns. In this case they are use to absorb the lower points to get them goose waffles up nice and high.

That is not an exploit, it is just preferential mounting and mech lab fu.

[Gaden Phoenix]

Carl Vickers, on 30 October 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

I agree with a lot of what you say Mystere but the above statement is wrong. If PGI gave us the ability to choose high or low hardpoints you wouldnt see to ammo-less machine guns. In this case they are use to absorb the lower points to get them goose waffles up nice and high.

That is not an exploit, it is just preferential mounting and mech lab fu.

They probably thought that that one low point would help balance. But players are really good at "fixing" stuff.

PGI is probably going WTfrake!!! Nooooo, my perfect nerf!!!

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 30 October 2016 - 07:03 PM.

[Rhent]

Gaden Phoenix, on 30 October 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

They probably thought that that one low point would help balance. But players are really good at "fixing" stuff.

PGI is probably going WTfrake!!! Nooooo, my perfect nerf!!!

They don't play the game enough to understand what works and doesn't work. Look at the history of them releasing mechs and going, OOPSIE let me fix that in an emergency patch or they release a mechanic and have to hotpatch it a day later. Trying to give PGI the benefit of the doubt, but with the glut of MMO programmers out there, they could get some skilled talent to help them out a lot.

[Mystere]

Is this the right time to say that balance should be based on at least all of the following instead of just the first two?

• Mechs
  
• weapons
  
• equipment
  
• forced IS vs. IS, Clan vs. Clan, and IS vs. Clan
  
• maps
  
• numbers
  
• tonnage
  
• game modes
  
• victory conditions
  
• rewards

Or does everyone still stubbornly insist on the current boneheaded course of action being taken, which has failed in the last four years or so?

Edited by Mystere, 30 October 2016 - 08:30 PM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Mystere, on 30 October 2016 - 08:29 PM, said:

Is this the right time to say that balance should be based on at least all of the following instead of just the first two?

• Mechs
  
• weapons
  
• equipment
  
• forced IS vs. IS, Clan vs. Clan, and IS vs. Clan
  
• maps
  
• numbers
  
• tonnage
  
• game modes
  
• victory conditions
  
• rewards

Or does everyone still stubbornly insist on the current boneheaded course of action being taken, which has failed in the last four years or so?

i agree that we have to consider the totality of the game mechanics to properly balance, how to help pgi understand this better i don't know sadly.

[Rhent]

Mystere, on 30 October 2016 - 08:29 PM, said:

Is this the right time to say that balance should be based on at least all of the following instead of just the first two?

• Mechs
  
• weapons
  
• equipment
  
• forced IS vs. IS, Clan vs. Clan, and IS vs. Clan
  
• maps
  
• numbers
  
• tonnage
  
• game modes
  
• victory conditions
  
• rewards

Or does everyone still stubbornly insist on the current boneheaded course of action being taken, which has failed in the last four years or so?

It's more about:
-Free Tonnage
-Weapon Slots
-Engine Cap
-Can the mech use clan XL + Endo/Ferro at will

There are plenty of tools for PGI to use, but they aren't using them and hoping the KDK-3 will go away, and all they will end up doing is creating a situation in which numbers nose dive like the splatcat, streak cat, poptarts, PPC Stalkers took place.

[Kuritaclan]

I have a problem with kdks- which 3 i should by for c-bills.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Dee Eight, on 30 October 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

I just spectated one of those goosebears. 2 gauss, 2 ERPPC, 2 flamers, and 2 ammoless MGs. Which is the part I don't understand. If you're going to use the MGs to raise the gauss to the top hardpoints, at least give them a half ton of ammo to be useful for the times you're using those flamers you apparently felt were needed.

What's the point of moving the gauss rifles to the top hardpoints anyway? The lower hardpoints are almost in line with the cockpit, which you have to expose to be able to hit anything. Is that half ton and 2 slot expenditure worth such a minor difference in effective hardpoint height?

[Bandilly]

Alistair Winter, on 30 October 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

Did anyone mention that only 3 mechs scored more than 700 dmg in this match, and they were all KDK-3's?

Because if not, I'd like to point that out.

I came here to point out that the two KDK-3s on the OP's team were their top performers on to of the fact that the enemy KDK-3s were on the high end themselves.

It is a bit ironic that the OP suggests KDK-3s don't win games and yet the numbers say both teams could have benefited from more KDK-3s.

[PhoenixFire55]

An idiot in a Kodiak is still an idiot. You can't fix buff stupid.

KDK-3 is a DPS mech, it requires constant face time to do its thing. In only works wonders in PUGs because PUGs are full of bads. It also really amazes me when a KDK-3 does ~1000 dmg with 0 kills and claims he carried the match. Totally need to spray that dmg all over some more. Out of that 1000 only like 250 goes where it is actually supposed to, much like lurmz. Damage numbers alone don't mean a thing.

For a 1v1 on open terrain I'd take a Dire with 6 ballistic hardpoints over any KDK. Better yet an MX90.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 31 October 2016 - 03:32 AM.

[Mystere]

Rhent, on 30 October 2016 - 10:16 PM, said:

It's more about:
-Free Tonnage
-Weapon Slots
-Engine Cap
-Can the mech use clan XL + Endo/Ferro at will

There are plenty of tools for PGI to use, but they aren't using them and hoping the KDK-3 will go away, and all they will end up doing is creating a situation in which numbers nose dive like the splatcat, streak cat, poptarts, PPC Stalkers took place.

I'm afraid you did not understand what I meant. It's high time PGI increased the number of dimensions used in balancing the game.

Edited by Mystere, 31 October 2016 - 06:34 AM.