19 replies to this topic

[FreeFragUK]

Hey all,

hoping that the community can guide me in the right direction on this one.
I recently returned to MWO from a very long break and since returning I've
been attempting to engross myself in the Assault Mech weight class, in
particular my focus has been on the Inner Sphere.

Since my return I've been running three variants of the Zeus while occasionally
dabbling in the Pretty Baby which I've owned for a very long time and also
jumping into the Misery on occasion. I've been having mixed success with all
of my assaults. I've found the Zeus' to be quite a heavy learning curve compared
to the PB and the Misery. My PB is currently set-up as a Brawler/Striker utilising
SRM's along with other weapons, the Misery is set up for short-medium range
too.

So my question. I am looking for an Assault to fulfil the role of the tip of the spear
for all intents and purposes. I love the idea of taking on a pivotal role within the
team and it seems as though there are few pilots out there who are willing to lead
the way into the fray.

My criteria is simple. I'm looking for an Inner Sphere Assault Mech to fulfil the role
of what would be classified as a Juggernaut in BM Classic. I'm looking to be that
tip of the spear, to be driven forth to allow my team to take the fight to the enemy.

As it stands my own candidates for this role seem to be either the Atlas or, ironically,
the Cyclops.

Thank you for reading the above, I apologise for the waffle but I look forward to reading
your advice, comments and suggestions.

edit: thread title altered to reflect content and request due to other threads (disambiguation)

Edited by FreeFragUK, 23 January 2017 - 03:21 PM.

[VitriolicViolet]

if you want to lead the charge then yes an Atlas will certainly do the job. Ive found the Cyclops can do it but its not as good, take either CP-11-A-DC or CP-11-P in my opinion, DC has 2 AMS and P has ECM. ive also seen Banshees do ok at pushing. They arent so good at the moment but Highlanders can lead as well i tend to use one in CW (732B or HVY MTL both are quirked heavily for structure). KGC isnt something i like to be first up in, second in line works well but they are so wide and low they just melt.

Maulers, Battlemasters and Zeus are better with more support but can also do it. Maulers are pretty good but really easy to pick out components loads of firepower though. Battlemaster is quite popular at the moment i think its good at everything but excels at nothing. Zeus used to be my favourite assault but since the rescale a while back i find they arent tough enough and just dont really use them anymore, that said the 5S can do ok due to how stupidly quirked it is.

But simply put the Atlas still pushes well, the Cyclops, Banshee and Highlander can do it. Of course this is my opinion im sure some better ones will appear.

[FreeFragUK]

Cheers for the reply Vitriolic.

I find that I use my Zeus' as a support role more than a pusher. One variant is set for close range slugging and is very effective in this role but I find that I have to time it very carefully.

I'd written off the Highlander as I just remember it being favoured for pop-tarting back in the day and little else although I'll admit I'd love to carry out a Highlander Burial from the fluff The battlemaster also appeals but as you've stated, it seems there are those which fulfil the role to a higher standard.

The Banshee sounds like an interesting option but unfortunately my knowledge of most of the mech's stems from their roles within BT: Classic which has helped me with the nuances surrounding the Zeus but I'm yet to apply to other mech's.

[Shadey99]

I mastered Zeus' awhile back (on my quest to master every mech eventually). I found them good as mobile fire platforms, trying to flank rather than tank. They also play to the mid-range (300-600m) with most builds.

Personally I think Atlas holds the role of brawler rather than 'tank'. I haven't finished my mastery on them and really I just don't want to. The main problem is their speed, or lack of it. It is far to easy to be outflanked. This is especially true with all the MAD-IICs around right now going around 80 kph and often leading the enemy push. The Atlas is probably close to the clan Kodiak in it's place, though without the brutal ACs to use (the tech jump later this year should help massively with that by adding UAC-10s to IS).

The Highlander and Victor are both more 'flank' then tank as well. Though the Highlander tends to be slower than the Victor. The Mauler is best as fire support using those ballistic slots to max effect (and with the new tech coming a quad UAC-10 IS mech is possible on these). Battlemasters can be made to fill lots of roles, but 'tank' isn't one I'd consider. Banshee is good fire support and could maybe 'tank' with those large arms that don't hold weapons. I don't think their is anything to add about Stalkers or King Crabs... Oh and I've yet to touch Cyclops' as I've been doing clan assaults lately.

In general though even four mechs with high alphas can core through an assault in the blink of an eye. The best 'armor' in this game is cover followed by multiple targets for the enemy to fire at.

[Arianrhod]

Cyclops is the best mech for this role imo (yes, even though the Atlas exists). The Cyclops has a big advantage in that it happens to be the smallest mech 90 tons or above. And specifically for the "tip of the spear" role, it has the advantage of being geared for SRMs rather than energy weapons. This mech may not have the sheer armor and structure value of an Atlas but in my opinion they're tankier because of their smaller size, better hitboxes, and higher speed potential. Unlike an Atlas, it's possible to get away with an XL engine (although I wouldn't exactly recommend it.)

The CP-10-Q is the ultimate tip of the spear with 7 missile hardpoints. You really can bring 7 SRM6s or SRM4s without a problem, and still go a reasonable speed for a 90 ton mech; however, you will not be able to engage at any other range. The 11-A provides more versatility, and can bring dual LB10s or ultra 5s (or an AC/20) plus some missiles. Finally the Sleipnir can bring enough ballistics to make your enemies go away and shake them around pretty fiercely, and it's on par with most Maulers in that respect.

As far as other IS assaults go:
The Atlas is kind of gimpy these days. It excels in a solo brawl and can trash almost any other mech that way, but fails when leading pushes. In a good match you might not break 350 because the Atlas's sole purpose in a charge is to draw aggro and absorb damage, and has poor survivability. The King Crab has more firepower in these situations, but the average King Crab is actually slower than today's average Atlas. I've never used the Banshee so cannot fairly comment on it, but it has similar durability to an Atlas and better hardpoints (at least in my opinion), so it could be a viable contender. The Highlander is a write-off; too bulky and slow to close distance and fight. The Mauler is highly effective but better at range. The Victor and Zeus are both underwhelming in most situations, and the Awesome has difficulty at extreme close range because of its oversized front profile. The Battlemaster is a very good assault, but brings mostly energy weapons, so is too hot for a close-in brawl, although its tiny size compared to other assaults does it credit. The Stalker is exclusively for ranged situations because it has one of the most destructible STs in the game.

[NRP]

Tip of the spear?

Atlas AS-7. It's brutal in the right circumstance.

[hordes1ayer2]

I owned some atlas' and they are great if you have a brawl build. SRMs and a AC20 works well. I have also used a king crab for the tip of the spear. Mostly doing 4 UAC5s for maximum damage out put but 2 AC20s with some SRMs is always a good one. Just note to never put a XL engine in wither one of those mechs because torsos get destroyed often.

[FreeFragUK]

Judging by the feedback so far, the main contenders are probably the Cyclops or Atlas.

I realise that fulfilling this role requires a lot of support, coordination and pilot skill, admittedly I've a lot to learn on the
skill front at this stage. I'm rusty to put it mildly and Assaults are largely new to me, although I have been achieving
growing degrees of success in my Zeus fulfilling the medium range support role with some flexibility to take to the
front where required.

I'd love to hear more opinions and feedback before I settle on a final decision, I'd also love to hear some experiences
or feedback in relation to the Banshee and Highlander. Both these mech's appear to be out of favour in the community
at present and I realise that this is probably due to the current meta.

Again, thank you for your responses as they're truly appreciated.

[Leone]

FreeFragUK, on 22 January 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

I'd also love to hear some experiences
or feedback in relation to the Banshee and Highlander.

Okay, okay, I can do you one better!

Banshee charge, complete with walkthrough as the first vid in the second post.. That highlander wasn't leading a push, nor built for one but I've a very nice dual uac 5, med lasers and srm 6 build that does alright. Then there's the Atlas Vid complete with trash aiming and an awesome team to follow me.

In short, I like the Banshee best for it's brutality, the Atlas for taking the punishment non stop, with few complaints, and the highlander is just fun and solid, but not as tanky as either I feel. (No good glorious charges uploaded for that mech. At least for now.)

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 22 January 2017 - 06:46 PM.

[Amsro]

The Boars Head with an XL380 and 6 LPL has been a beast for me, I can get to the fray quick and have the agility and speed to spread incoming damage and get back on target.

I use this as a tip of the spear type of mech, it has a high success rate with the odd go down quick in flames type of match.

Otherwise a Atlas DDC with 2x UAC/5 + 2x LPL works quite well and has ECM to boot.

Hard to really call any mech a tank, but the atlas can pull it off with the right team support.

[DavidStarr]

I find Cyclops to be too fragile for this role. It's a big heavy, not an assault. And Atlas is, of course, too slow.
Why not Stalker? Misery should do well.

[Shadey99]

DavidStarr, on 24 January 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

I find Cyclops to be too fragile for this role. It's a big heavy, not an assault. And Atlas is, of course, too slow.
Why not Stalker? Misery should do well.

Stalkers crumple way to easy, losing torsos very very fast due to their profile. I love my Misery for a Brutal surprise (It's a brawler build), but leading a charge is a good way to die with it.

[Kimberm1911]

Atlas is probably the best "tip of the spear" mech at the moment. Whoever said that it is a brawler rather than a tank is confused. (At least in my opinion.) The atlas tanks incredibly well if you know how to torso twist, and know when to engage. The problem with many people who pilot the atlas, is they don't know when to engage. This leads them to attempt to push for charges when they shouldn't, and they get picked apart very quickly. The atlas can take a ridiculous amount of punishment from the enemy, and if you charge at the right moment, you can turn the tide of the battle. The Cyclops is also a good tip of the spear mech. It isn't quite as tanky, but it can boat a massive amount of firepower, and shreds components like crazy off of enemy mechs. My advice would be to run it with 5 SRM 6 Artemis with a single large laser. 5 SRM 6's runs fairly cool, while still hitting extremely hard, and the large laser allows you to engage at longer distances. It's much more useful than you think it'd be. I've had a couple matches where a pesky scout eats an SRM volley, with a cherry red CT, and gets licked by that large laser when he thinks he is safe from the SRMS. The Stalker 5m is pretty good at the role, but it is gets stripped of weapons pretty quickly. However, it'll last longer than the cyclops, and has the same loadout. (It can also zombie with a LPL.)

[DavidStarr]

Kimberm1911, on 25 January 2017 - 05:43 AM, said:

The Cyclops is also a good tip of the spear mech. It isn't quite as tanky, but it can boat a massive amount of firepower, and shreds components like crazy off of enemy mechs.

Which variants do you have in mind? Can't say I don't like Cyclopses (because I do!), but to me they feel weak. I wonder if I'm playing or building them the wrong way.
I assume you meant CP-10-Q for the 5 SRM build?

Edited by DavidStarr, 25 January 2017 - 06:40 AM.

[ProfessorD]

Some tough realities about the role you're trying to fill, OP:

1. MWO is not BattleTech. For better or worse, your BattleTech experience will not translate well here. The best way to enjoy MWO is to embrace the fact that it's just going to be different.

2. This role is a very difficult and frustrating one. In pug matches, anyone trying to serve as the "tip of the spear" will more likely than not just die quickly with nothing to show for it. There is no mech that can survive fire from multiple enemies for very long, and it will be rare that your team follows in a sufficiently quick and coordinated manner to take advantage of a "tip of the spear" pushing to start a brawl. (Even when you drop in a premade group, this will often not work well.)

3. If this is really a role you enjoy, Atlases will serve you best, and these two will serve you particularly well.

[The Basilisk]

As assault player you aren't the tip of the spear.
Never ever.
You are either the iron core of the runaround deathball or the streat sweaper killing entangled and fighting meds and heavys.

As for a rugged and servicable design....well the Battlemaster and the Stalker are still okish Mechs and the Cyclops is not toooooooo bad.
For more but squishy firepower I recommend the Mauler.

[Amsro]

Kimberm1911, on 25 January 2017 - 05:43 AM, said:

Atlas is probably the best "tip of the spear" mech at the moment. Whoever said that it is a brawler rather than a tank is confused. (At least in my opinion.) The atlas tanks incredibly well if you know how to torso twist, and know when to engage.

The problem with many people who pilot the atlas, is they don't know when to engage. This leads them to attempt to push for charges when they shouldn't, and they get picked apart very quickly. The atlas can take a ridiculous amount of punishment from the enemy, and if you charge at the right moment, you can turn the tide of the battle.

The Cyclops is also a good tip of the spear mech. It isn't quite as tanky, but it can boat a massive amount of firepower, and shreds components like crazy off of enemy mechs. My advice would be to run it with 5 SRM 6 Artemis with a single large laser. 5 SRM 6's runs fairly cool, while still hitting extremely hard, and the large laser allows you to engage at longer distances.

It's much more useful than you think it'd be. I've had a couple matches where a pesky scout eats an SRM volley, with a cherry red CT, and gets licked by that large laser when he thinks he is safe from the SRMS.

The Stalker 5m is pretty good at the role, but it is gets stripped of weapons pretty quickly. However, it'll last longer than the cyclops, and has the same loadout. (It can also zombie with a LPL.)

Fixed that for you, nice post but a hard read on the eyes. Paragraphs are OP.

[Amsro]

The Basilisk, on 25 January 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

As assault player you aren't the tip of the spear.

Never ever.

Perhaps you are not, but I am always leading the charge, as you did mention it can be a terrible experience, but typically the team finds courage when the atlas calls the charge.

With an average win/loss of 3+ with all my Atlas mechs I can attest to the value of being the tip of the spear to motivate your team into and epic push.

Going to be even better now with all the armor bonus on 3 of the variants.

[Stf Sgt Marblez]

Amsro, on 25 January 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

Perhaps you are not, but I am always leading the charge, as you did mention it can be a terrible experience, but typically the team finds courage when the atlas calls the charge.

With an average win/loss of 3+ with all my Atlas mechs I can attest to the value of being the tip of the spear to motivate your team into and epic push.

Going to be even better now with all the armor bonus on 3 of the variants.

So very true....actually both of ya'll are right it just comes down to situational awareness and what each team is doing at the current moment...

Lead plenty of successful and failed "Tip o' le Spear" charges in cyclops, king crabs, and stalkers...we wont talk about the kdks lol

Edited by Stf Sgt Marblez, 31 January 2017 - 02:29 PM.

[Calebos]

AS7-S
A bit heaty so never alfa until you reach elite. But it can be pain in the oponent's face.