5 replies to this topic

[Greyhart]

actual I think the title is misleading, but should get some people ranting which feels like entertainment.

one of the perennial problem in MWO is the pin point damage issue. the ability to hit the CT with no damage spreading to other components means quicker death.

The suggested solutions to this go from systems such as ghost heat to limit the alpha strike to Cone of Fire to spread the damage. The focus being on the person shooting rather than the person being hit.

However I think that a focus on the person being hit might work better all round.

Imagine if each component had a max damage per second threshold. Lets say 30 damage per second (i know there will be complaints but it is a randomly selected threshold for illustrative purposes).

Now if the threshold is exceeded then a percentage (for illustrative purposes lets say 50%) of that damage is spread to the adjoining armour (excluding the head or including the head to make head armour more relevant).

So you hit the CT for 40 damage. the first 30 threshold amount is applied and then the remaining 10 is split and 5 is applied to the CT. So the CT takes 35 damage. the remaining 5 is spread to the STs.

this would encourage more face time and less poking as hitting for 60 in one burst would be inefficient in terms of damage (as you would only do 45 damage to the CT and the remaining 15 would spread). It would also make mechs more survivable if targeted by multiple mechs.

It also makes more sense as armour will not be placed as distinct components but as a smooth surface. If it is been melted off the heat will be transferred to the neighbouring armour plates. If it is hit by bullets or missiles the impact should be spread rather than limited to one section (like car design now the energy from an impact is designed to travel through the entire car).

Finally it might allow for better balancing on the basis of chassis shape. So a large CT might be quirked to spread the damage better to the STs.

You could also extend this to the internals. So if a mech has over heated taken internally CT damage but still has full armour you could aim for the open ST and kill the mech with the transferred damage from CT.

this method means there is no randomness like cone of fire. It further enhances skill as you are looking to place multiple shots on target rather than just one. and it increases TTK when being hit from multiple enemies.

[PhoenixFire55]

It is a bad idea because when you got a cherry red open component and someone completely misses that component yet kills it by damage transfer it takes most of the skill out of the game.

Perfect weapon convergence is a problem. A problem they've clearly stated they won't even bother thinking about.
TTK on the other hand is not a problem at all. The only accurate way to measure TTK is a 1v1 duel, and in 1v1 duels between even opponents TTK is perfectly fine. Everything else is called focused fire and regardless of weapon convergence or damage spread when 5-6 mechs are shooting one it evaporates in 3 seconds.

[Cy Mitchell]

PhoenixFire55, on 02 November 2016 - 02:58 AM, said:

It is a bad idea because when you got a cherry red open component and someone completely misses that component yet kills it by damage transfer it takes most of the skill out of the game.

Perfect weapon convergence is a problem. A problem they've clearly stated they won't even bother thinking about.
TTK on the other hand is not a problem at all. The only accurate way to measure TTK is a 1v1 duel, and in 1v1 duels between even opponents TTK is perfectly fine. Everything else is called focused fire and regardless of weapon convergence or damage spread when 5-6 mechs are shooting one it evaporates in 3 seconds.

Have you watched the 1v1 duels that are streamed? From first contact to one Mech dead usually last less than 30 seconds. Often less than 15 and seldom more than a minute. For armored robot combat that seems like pretty fast TTK. Perfect convergence is a problem. So is the ability to fire every on board weapon at once multiple times in a span of a few seconds.

IMO that is why MWO is much more an arena FPS than it is a BT game.

[Alistair Winter]

It still feels very arbitrary and gamey to me. You'll alpha strike someone's fully armoured leg and their stripped side torso will explode while their leg still has plenty of armour. Maybe their XL engine will explode and they die.

Kind of further dilutes the idea of this being a combat sim instead of Unreal Tournament with mechs. (And if you want to argue that this was always an Unreal Tournament arena shooter and that we should just add Quad Damage and health packs, go stand in a corner. It's a boring argument.)

[Greyhart]

Alistair Winter, on 02 November 2016 - 04:49 AM, said:

It still feels very arbitrary and gamey to me. You'll alpha strike someone's fully armoured leg and their stripped side torso will explode while their leg still has plenty of armour. Maybe their XL engine will explode and they die.

Kind of further dilutes the idea of this being a combat sim instead of Unreal Tournament with mechs. (And if you want to argue that this was always an Unreal Tournament arena shooter and that we should just add Quad Damage and health packs, go stand in a corner. It's a boring argument.)

Ah well I would say that if you fire on armour it only transfers over to armour not to internals.

Internals could well have no carry over. So operate how they do today. That was more of an interesting thought on the use of information.

But to be clear damage to armour would only damage adjoining armour not internals. I don't think I was clear on that point because I hadn't thought that anyone would think that

[PhoenixFire55]

Rampage, on 02 November 2016 - 04:37 AM, said:

Have you watched the 1v1 duels that are streamed? From first contact to one Mech dead usually last less than 30 seconds. Often less than 15 and seldom more than a minute. For armored robot combat that seems like pretty fast TTK. Perfect convergence is a problem. So is the ability to fire every on board weapon at once multiple times in a span of a few seconds.

IMO that is why MWO is much more an arena FPS than it is a BT game.

I've not only watched, but participated in several 1v1 tournaments as well as countless 1v1 practice sessions with one of the top EU competitive units. 15 seconds you speak of is anecdotal, 30 seconds on the other hand is already quite fine. 30 seconds equals 6 turns for TT Solaris rules, which is quite long for actual TT combat actually, which in turn is obviously due to doubled armor in MWO.

"Lore"-wise actual engagements are very short. As for MWO, the average time I'm alive in a match is about 7-8 mins, and thats 7-8 mins of actively seeking and shooting the enemy, not sitting behind teammates pumping lurms. TTK is fine. Everyone who claims otherwise simply refuse to acknowledge what exactly *they* are doing wrong.

That does not mean I don't agree with you that perfect convergence is a problem. It is. It goes completely against the spirit of BT, but as I said, PGI clearly stated that they are not going to do anything about it. Among their countless failures this one might be what hurts gameplay the most.