24 replies to this topic

[Muad Ib]

Hello fellow mechwarriors!


I have a free mech bay and would like to buy a heavy for it... I would like something brawly for close combat, preferentially with ballistic so that it does not get too hot...

Do you guys have any suggestions? I was thinking maybe a Jägermech... But [color="#000000"]their armour seems lower than other heavy?

I am a total noob regarding heavy so any advice would be much appreciated...


Thanks![/color]

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

What technology base do you prefer?

Inner sphere or Clan?

(I am going to guess IS from your emblem and your comment about the jaeger mech)

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Warhammer 6R

WHM-6R

armor values to taste and change the arm medium lasers to flamers if you want to be extra cheeky

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Jager does not make for a good brawler, though the Jagerbomb (2x AC20) is pretty fun.

The Orion would fit that role well, but it is not capable of much else.

Warhammer 7S can make for a good brawler with SRMs and pulse lasers.

Warhammer6R and various Marauders can fit an AC20 and pulse lasers.

The Archer 5W can make for a terrifying SRM boat.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Rear Admiral Tier 6, on 02 November 2016 - 11:51 AM, said:

Warhammer 6R

WHM-6R

armor values to taste and change the arm medium lasers to flamers if you want to be extra cheeky

my take on the concept:

It trades range and a little bit of firepower for more speed, better heat efficiency, and more close quarters focused lasers.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0d051f1460bafab

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Orion IIC-A is the best you can get for a brawler if you're on clan side.

For IS:
-Black Knight's good but energy only.
-Orion on the IS side will move pretty slow or take a hit to its firepower output heavily overall not that great.
-Marauders make pretty good brawlers, mostly energy with a ballistic thrown in or a couple missiles
-Warhammer is nice, lots of energy hardpoints, some variants with missiles others with ballistics
-Archer is good for SRM brawling
-Catapult is another one good for SRM brawling but is lighter and more fragile, but has good hitboxes and small size

Basically just make sure to bring a standard engine and move at least 70kph, you'll need good speed for your torso twisting and to close distance with enemies. Bring a STD engine so you don't die quickly on the loss of a single side torso. Use the MWO Smurfy mechlab to check the mechs and their variants to come up with some builds before buying one.

Orion IIC should use an XL engine since its clan tech.

[Alienized]

for IS side, catapults are doing well with a nice barrage of SRM+ artemis launchers.

dragons *can* brawl but you really gotta pick your fights. speed and dps are the key, not alpha. something like XL300 + uac5/lbx 10 + srm6 + 4 mlas.

i got a quickdraw IV-4 hero with ac5's. srm 4+ artemis and 2 mlas that does well in brawling.
warhammers are good in it so are marauders.

black knights... dunno.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Black Knight is all energy oriented which IMO does not make a good brawler IMO.
More of a mid-range poker.

[Bud Crue]

In addition to those mentioned above:

Grasshoppers. Any but the J. While the 3LPL 4-5ML builds are sort of the standard running a XL325, you can also do some pretty tough std engine builds and spam ML and MPL combinations. Likewise the once feared Thunderbolts. The 5ss (5MPL and LPL) may hve been nerfed but it is still a tough std engine mech. See too the SE with JJs and 3LPL and 2ML, Topdog (just look at its structure quirks) -with my favorite troll-ish build: 8spl and 1LPL.

Also the Cataphracts. The 0xp with an ac20 and 4ml (std 325) or 4MPL (std 300) provides a fine ecm brawler. My favorite is the D however with 2PPCs and 2UAC 5s. Yes this requires an XL but it is still pretty tough and it has 2JJ to make up for the low hard points of the arms. Illya with 3AC10 or 3LBX is just wonderful but also a bit of a glass cannon.

Also consider the Catapults. All of em can be built to brawl but the A1 boating SRM4s is particularly brutal in a brawl; tough and mobile. Also the K2 can be built to brawl and there are few mechs more fun than a properly outfitted laser spam Jester though the latter requires a big XL.

And of course my favorite: The Quickdraws. The IV-4 (again pay attention to the quirks) with 2 AC10s and 2 ML, or throw a std 250 in it (or there about) with a couple of LBX and enjoy your automatic shotguns. The others offer a range of wonderful mixed SRM and ML/MPL builds with std or XLs are all viable and more importantly fun. The old 3LPL variants are still good as well (a decent std engine 4g: 2LPL and 2SRM4, a couple of jump jets and a std 280).

There are many more, but honestly if brawling is your thing, IS heavies offer a plethora of options. Most of which are pretty fun and effective. Pay attention to torso twist and don't neglect your engine (speed is needed for optimum twisting). Yes you shouldn't buy for quirks, but abuse them where and while you can .

[DemonicDonut]

I love Jagers, although I don't pilot them very often. They can make good skirmishers and fire support mechs. The chassis shape doesn't lend itself to brawling though. It can be done, but you must have a standard engine.

Almost any mech can brawl, but a few have nice hitboxes.

Catapult has good torso hitboxes, although the ears can be pealed easily.

I have to agree with Boogie on the Black Knight. It is also somewhat large/slow and never feels very "tanky" to me. I haven't mastered them so that could be the problem.

The warhammer seems to be a nice chassis, but I haven't piloted them.

Edited by DemonicDonut, 02 November 2016 - 03:09 PM.

[Muad Ib]

Cool thanks for all the advice, I will mull on it in the coming days!

I run inner sphere: raven, Stalkers, crab... I don't believe one can mix and match, right? Otherwise, I wouldn't mind either way...

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Well there is nothing stopping you from using clan mechs in quick play or private matches. You are only locked for faction play.

[Void Angel]

For the Inner Sphere, the Thunderbolt is an amazingly durable brawler if used properly - its blocky construction allows it to spread damage extremely well. It is also a flexible chassis capable of both mixed-load and laserboat brawling (knife-range and mid-range jump-capable,) as well as supporting a solid but not amazing ERPPC sniping build with the 9S.

The meta builds for the Black Knight are all laser-alpha poke builds, and not well-suited for sustained brawling even if the build is mid-range. This doesn't mean you can't use them this way, but lasers are by design hotter for the damage than other options, which hinders you brawling.

The Marauders are tough customers, and can be used to brawl - however, the Marauder suffers from Stalker Syndrome, where the shape of its chassis makes it very easy to quickly cripple the facing torso from the side. This makes the chassis ill-suited for true knife-range brawling, but it is - like the Stalker - very hard to kill or cripple quickly from the front, so you can use it at close range to out-slug many enemies. You just have to break your torso-twisting habits and only twist slightly side-to-side and keep your enemies in front of you as much as possible (while still minimizing the number of people shooting at you.)
The Warhammer comes highly recommended overall, and the 6R (or 7S to a lesser degree) has good hardpoints and quirks for a standard AC/laser brawling setup. I didn't pick up this chassis myself (I went with the Marauder, though I was tempted,) but it comes consistently well-recommended.

The Archer can potentially mount a lot of SRMs, but there is a reason you don't see them on the field much. Don't mess with them until the next balance pass.

Edited by Void Angel, 02 November 2016 - 05:54 PM.

[Fyrwulf]

The Vulture (Mad Dog to you Clanner ********) is a surprisingly good brawler. When I'm on my game, I don't even fear the much talked about Kodiak 3. A bit of unsolicited advice; rather than avoid lasers, cultivate discipline.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Fyrwulf, on 02 November 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

The Vulture (Mad Dog to you Clanner ********) is a surprisingly good brawler. When I'm on my game, I don't even fear the much talked about Kodiak 3. A bit of unsolicited advice; rather than avoid lasers, cultivate discipline.

Mad dog can hit like a truck if built correctly, bit of a glass cannon though.

[Takashi Uchida]

Some good advice here, so I will add my two cents. This is more of a basic way of approaching brawling builds, focused more on different mech traits as opposed to specific variants. A lot of this can apply to general building, but I've tailored it for close range fighting

Weapon Considerations

• Stuff to avoid
  
  • Lasers you have to hold a long time: ER lasers, with the exception of clan ER small
    
  • Small caliber autocannons: require lots of facetime to get a bunch of shots off
    
  • Gauss rifles: they CAN be used effectively up close if you're a good shot, but their propensity to explode when critted makes it a risky choice. Use an AC20 instead, or at least AC10 if you can't fit it.
    
  • LRMs:duh
    
  • Streaks: These are a little more suited for skirmishers and ambushers who will be a little more mobile than a brawler, but slower brawlers might mount some to deter lights. Holding a lock can be finicky if you are constantly torso twisting.
    
  • Flamer/MG: only nominally useful, and require you to face your target continuously
    
  • PPC: Inner sphere regular PPC has minimum range. ERPPCs don't have this limitation and are good sniper weapons, but they are very hot and up close it's probably better to have a pulse laser

• Stuff to consider
  
  • Basically everything else. Low time on target. Pulse lasers (regular lasers are okay too, though the inner sphere large laser does require a bit of time), big autocannons (LBX if you wish, but I like regular shot better), SRMs (try artemis if you're using the 6s, if weight/space is an issue, just go for the 4s)
    
  • You want to be able to hit them hard, but not have to stare at them too long, where you expose your CT.

Hardpoint Considerations

• Big alpha strike (all weapons dump) without ghost heat:
  
  • Example: 4 missile hardpoints without tube size restrictions is ideal, because you can fire a maximum of 4 SRM4 or SRM6 simultaneously without incurring an additional heat penalty.. If you can combine that with an AC20, you can annihilate (or at least severely cripple) smaller mechs in one pull of the trigger.
    
  • If you can't fire all your weapons at once without ghost heat, go for a two-split. Like an SRM left-right build, or split lasers to avoid ghost heat.
• Weapon Location:
  
  • Generally, higher weapon mounts are preferred for any build because they allow you to shoot behind cover. But, since brawlers are usually doing up close fighting, a low weapon mount isn't going to disadvantage a brawler as much as it would a sniper. Though terrain will still be a challenge sometimes up close.
• Asymmetric Build:
  
  • The most basic brawling technique is using the torso twist to spread damage, so you can stay in the game longer. There is the concept of a "shield arm," a non-weapon arm that is used solely to absorb damage via torso-twisting. The advanced version of this is the "dead side," in which the majority of your weapons are mounted on one side, leaving the entire other side to be used as a shield. Positioning is even more important here because if someone sneaks up on you and takes out your weapons-side, you're kinda screwed. Experienced players will know where to aim, so protect that side!
• Zombie:
  
  • If you are running a standard engine, you can lose both side torsos and not die. If your mech has head or CT mounts, a couple medium lasers can decide a close game, if you've been spreading your damage and are still alive.

Misc. Mech Considerations

• Quirks: extra HP helps, also twist speed, weapon-specifics quirks
  
• HItboxes: ask Void Angel, he can give you better advice here. You might find that certain mechs fall apart easily, or don't spread damage well when attacked from a certain angle. Also note that sometimes, certain weapons can alter your hitboxes pretty substantially (ie. some mechs if you add missiles, a big ol' missile box appears). You might want to consider shielding parts, or size in general. For a medium example: Hunchbacks have a big vulnerable torso, but overall are quite compact for a mech that carries that much firepower per tonnage (less so nowadays, but pre-clan mech this was very pronounced). But, blocky isn't all bad (ie. the aforementioned Thunderbolt), if they allow for even distribution of damage across the body.
  
• Engine: If you're Inner Sphere, go standard. Brawlers should plan on absorbing at least some damage, and shouldn't be surprised if they lose at least one side torso. XL engine for clan is fine.
  
• Speed and Maneuverability: Make sure your engine is big enough so you aren't left in the dust. Positioning is very important for any role. You should at least be keeping up with the "faster" assaults if you are playing a heavy brawler.

I would also like to add that, if you're playing quick solo games, you might want to bring some long range weapons anyway, as you can't count on your team to be coordinated and move with you to a position where you can be effective up close. Be active over comms/chat and try to get something going on. A pure brawler in a poke war, on a team that doesn't want to move is pretty miserable. Sometimes you will have no luck, but at least make an attempt to coordinate some movement.

Find out what the assaults on your team are packing. Brawler assaults will appreciate the support if you move with them (and will probably be the ones calling to move), either as an escort to deter fast harassers, or a partner to bring down larger mechs.


edit: formatting was butchered

Edited by Takashi Uchida, 02 November 2016 - 09:55 PM.

[Leone]

I like the Marauder and Catapract options for ballistic based IS brawling heavies.

~Leone

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Boogie138, on 02 November 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

Black Knight is all energy oriented which IMO does not make a good brawler IMO.
More of a mid-range poker.

Energy brawling is somewhat uncommon, but very doable with pulse lasers and enough heatsinks on specific mechs. loses out on having an AC20, but can be better than SRMs due to less spread if you keep the beam on target. Generally the builds allow for some good speed due to the lower weapon weight too. Then if we look over on the Clan side though energy only brawling is a staple with builds such as 12 small pulse lasers on various mechs.

BK is the best IS energy brawler I've ever had, mixed medium and medium pulse lasers avoid ghost heat also allowing for a 50 damage alpha, can cut down to firing just the MPLs if running hot. I currently have it Mastered running this build, worked great in faction play and even still in quick play.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6d67dea834c38b0

I find it rather capable of battling other brawlers due to the good hitboxes and the mounts not being awkward. The structure quirks also make it one of the tankiest heavy mechs.

[Khereg]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but the brawling Timber Wolf build is top notch. 5 SPL's, 4 SRM6's. Moves at nearly 90kph (after speed tweak), has JJ's in one torso for improved closing options, and hits really, really hard for not nearly as much heat as you would imagine.

I've personally pulled over 1200 dmg in one of these on more than one occassion, which is pretty amazing for a brawl mech.

Here's the build I use (armor values are off - adjust as needed): http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4165841c2a59e41

[TooDumbToQuit]

i like brawling but I find I never reach the end of the match alive doing it. i think i've won games for my "team" with one or two important kills but I also take a lot of damage.

in watching my recorded games, a lot of that damage is coming from teammates. and it is worse when I use flamers (yes, I use flamers)

A lbx cannon, a few srms and 4 flamers works. but the friendly fire is worse.