15 replies to this topic

[TooDumbToQuit]

The damage that weapons do short of effective range. I was given a link once to Smurfy's but I can't find it there.

I'm most interested in LBX cannon. In other words, what damage does an LBX 5 does at close range like 100 yards for instance.

If you look at all the weapons, they just show the drop off due to long range.

The only one I know that does not do any close damage at all is the IS LRMs.

[TercieI]

Most weapons (including all LBX cannons) do their nominal damage out to optimal range and then suffer dropoff (ballistics and energy) or do no damage (missiles). PPCs (90M) and IS LRMs (180M) do no damage inside their minimum range. Clan LRMs' damage scales down inside their "minimum" range of 180M. I don't know what the curve is, but they're pretty harmless under 100M.

Edited by TercieI, 03 November 2016 - 08:32 PM.

[Spheroid]

Unless a weapon has a minimum range all weapons do full damage up to optimum then falloff to zero generally at 2x optimum range though there are exceptions.

[IraqiWalker]

LikeUntoGod, on 03 November 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

The damage that weapons do short of effective range. I was given a link once to Smurfy's but I can't find it there.

I'm most interested in LBX cannon. In other words, what damage does an LBX 5 does at close range like 100 yards for instance.

If you look at all the weapons, they just show the drop off due to long range.

The only one I know that does not do any close damage at all is the IS LRMs.

Weapons deal full damage to optimal range, and then decrease linearly until max range, which is double optimal range. Gauss' max range is triple, though.

For example:

LB5-X's optimal range is 720 meters. It will deal 5 damage at up to 720 meters. At 1440 it deals zero. At 1080 meters it will deal 2.5 damage.

Also, if you go to the equipment section in Smurfy, you'll get some information from there.

mwo.smurfy-net.de

[Koniving]

In other words, Like, there's no bonus damage for being point blank with a shotgun, other than landing all the hits onto one body part.

If a weapon does X damage at 720 meters which is the optimum range, then it will do X damage at 0 meters, X damage at 100 meters, 200 meters, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 720... and at 721 it will do Y damage, 750 Z damage, 800, A damage...etc, etc., etc.

The exceptions are Clan LRMs (linearly reduced damage at <180 meters... exponentially reduced <90 meters), IS LRMs (0 damage for <180 meters), and IS PPCs (<90 meters 0 damage), and yes Smurfy mentions this for each case.

[Koniving]

If you want to know the bonus damage a shotgun does have, check the * symbol above the damage on Smurfy. It'll mention increase crit chances, meaning it's more likely to get single, double and triple crits and this is a roll per ball, too. This isn't just important in disabling weapons and equipment against structure (when armor is removed or 'damaged off'), but since 15% of all crit damage is also applied as bonus damage to structure... Lets just say a shotgun with minimal spread can become more dangerous than an equivalent AC in very short order.

[TercieI]

IraqiWalker, on 03 November 2016 - 09:16 PM, said:

Weapons deal full damage to optimal range, and then decrease linearly until max range, which is double optimal range. Gauss' max range is triple, though.

For example:

LB5-X's optimal range is 720 meters. It will deal 5 damage at up to 720 meters. At 1440 it deals zero. At 1080 meters it will deal 2.5 damage.

Also, if you go to the equipment section in Smurfy, you'll get some information from there.

mwo.smurfy-net.de

Glad to see you posting again!

The damage falloff is more complicated than you state, as clan lasers vary now, some tapering off to 150% of optimal range.

[Koniving]

TercieI, on 04 November 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

Glad to see you posting again!

The damage falloff is more complicated than you state, as clan lasers vary now, some tapering off to 150% of optimal range.

And some weapons, like the IS LB-10x have a max range of 3x stated (while still maintaining only 1x optimal range for maximum possible damage). The Gauss Rifle is also a 3x stated max range (I know IS is, Clan should be but not certain).

[B L O O D W I T C H]

The part on smurfy-net.de you're looking for is this:

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

Be adviced tho

Quirks, modules and equipment such as targeting computers (TC alter laser ranges) affect ranges.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 04 November 2016 - 05:53 AM.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

TercieI, on 04 November 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

Glad to see you posting again!

The damage falloff is more complicated than you state, as clan lasers vary now, some tapering off to 150% of optimal range.

1.7x - 1.8x not 1.5x

I believe affected lasers: C-ERMED, C-SPL, C-ERSL, C-MPL

Edited by Keshav Murali, 04 November 2016 - 08:22 AM.

[Spheroid]

@Koving: I am sorry but that extra structure damage is never worth it. I just came back from testing grounds measuring TTK. A Warhawk with 4x cslas(chain fired to avoid overkill) and TC6 had nearly the same number of shots to destroy the LT of an Awesome, a beefy target with lots of crit chances.

I also ran the same test with a Firebrand. One using an AC-10 and one with a LBX-10 at point blank range. Once the armor was stripped the LT went down both times with five shots. In actual combat the damage lost to spread will always win out over increased structure damage. The only time I can think it would be worth it is boated UAC-2s vs. LBX-2s.

That is against a target with known critable equipment. To my knowledge extra structural damage is still not confirmed when hitting empty body segments that only contain actuators or the engine. Those body segments are often the best targets in combat.

[TooDumbToQuit]

thanks all, what I wanted to know is if my LBX 5's do max damage at 100 ms.

Thanks again.

[Rogue Jedi]

In theory an LBX ACs damage scales back linerly between published range and max (double) range, however in the case of the LBX you also have spread to consider;
some of the pellets are likely to miss wide or in the gaps between components, how many hit or miss depends on the size of the target, if you are shooting at front or back of an Atlas more will hit (and therefore more damage will be done) than shooting side on to that same Mech at the same range

if you are shooting a Locust or if a Spider has its side to you you have to bear in mins that having less than 1/4 the surface area you will miss with a far higher percentage of the pellets

[Koniving]

Spheroid, on 04 November 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

@Koving: I am sorry but that extra structure damage is never worth it. I just came back from testing grounds measuring TTK. A Warhawk with 4x cslas(chain fired to avoid overkill) and TC6 had nearly the same number of shots to destroy the LT of an Awesome, a beefy target with lots of crit chances.

I also ran the same test with a Firebrand. One using an AC-10 and one with a LBX-10 at point blank range. Once the armor was stripped the LT went down both times with five shots. In actual combat the damage lost to spread will always win out over increased structure damage. The only time I can think it would be worth it is boated UAC-2s vs. LBX-2s.

That is against a target with known critable equipment. To my knowledge extra structural damage is still not confirmed when hitting empty body segments that only contain actuators or the engine. Those body segments are often the best targets in combat.

To note: All weapons produce extra structure damage, it isn't exclusive to LB-X weapons. (I know MWO writes it as LBX but it is properly written in Battletech as LB-#X as it has in every Mechwarrior before it [MechAssault is NOT a Mechwarrior game; I really don't even know what to classify it as... Fantasy rooted in the confines of what seems like an anime show within the Battletech universe?)

Every single weapon has the potential to deliver extra structure damage, including UAC/2, AC/20, and Flamers.

What makes the LB-X more dangerous, however, is the higher crit chances and a maximum of three crits per bullet on a simple 1d6 rather than a 2d6 as most weapons have (metaphorically). While it is true that an AC/20 and a LB-20x can both get a maximum potential of 29 damage from a single blow, the AC/20 is much more likely to have 0 extra damage or 3 extra damage (so 23) while the LB-20X is more likely to have anything between 0 extra damage (extremely unlikely) to 29 damage (fairly unlikely) with a significant chance of numbers like 24-27 per shot, provided you're within 270 meters of the target (forget LB-20X range; look at this shot grouping).


When comparing a UAC/2, it is hard to argue. But now try an LB-5x with an UAC/5... and now we have a debate worth getting into. In the chance game, what's more valuable when the UAC/5 has an equal chance of getting 5, 5.375 or 5.75... as the LB-5X has in getting anywhere from 5.30 to 6.65, presuming you fire it at a range that keeps the spread to a single area (roughly 325, varies with mech and hardpoint location and enhanced by quirks though the 325 is without quirks; highest one is from a Summoner on a quirked spread left arm, making it to 600+ meters as a single 'bullet' before spreading out.) Considering both weapons have the extreme potential of getting 7.25 damage per trigger pull, yeah.

You also have the weapons disabling feature... All weapons share it (except TAG, AMS and NARC). However while an AC/20 will net 20 component damage on a single crit roll, it isn't known whether the damage 'transfers' to the next component (where component here is defined as parts inside of your mech rather than the score board's definition of body parts). The LB-20X's crits will split between many components, allowing the potential to disable or destroy multiple weapons, heatsinks or bins of ammunition in very short order.

In my Flamer Stalker, which was loaded to the brim with craploads of missiles, the only thing that posed a real threat to me in any single or double enemy instance is the use of LB-X. AC/20s? Laugh them off. UACs? Laugh them off. Lasers? Pfft!
Cataphract 4x shooting me with AC/5s in the rear torso while I take on 4+ enemies that rendered three other assault mechs from full health to destruction in seconds, and keep up the fight for over 2 and a half minutes after the last Atlas falls, netting multiple kills?

Easy butchering.
Lasers and UACs in the group queue?

Yawnfest. Streaks and flamers with a large laser, AND a DRAGON escort!

LRMs in the middle of Terra Therma? Pfft... Flame 'em and machine gun 'em to death.


TWIN AC/20? RAMMING SPEED, I GOT FLAMERS! Move (Beep), get out the way!



Atlases, Clan and IS mechs in a brawling fest in Frozen City (second battle in video), no problem!
A single guy has two LB-10X? (First battle in video, around 4-5 minutes), and you can hear me losing my composure as I'm nervous about rekt by it.

Terrifying.

The math might be fleeting... and the negativity bias of the community is infectious (if such and such says it is bad, and these guys say it is bad, it must be bad so I will say it is bad, so that you will think it is bad, and now a lot of people think it is bad despite never trying it).. So I would like you to try using it... I believe you would be terrified at what you might find out.

Then again, I've been using it for a long, long time.

Spoiler

Edited by Koniving, 04 November 2016 - 05:04 PM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

I always consider an LBX's range to be well under what is stated due to the spread.

On the other hand, I can fire a UAC a little farther than stated.

The reason I wanted to know is that I do use a decent amount of Flamers builds with LBX's. So I'm shooting them normally at 50ms or less.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 04 November 2016 - 05:36 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

if you fire an LBX at half range provided you are a good shot the vast majority of the pellets are likely to hit.
the smaller LBXs have much tighter spread than the larger ones, in no cases would I hesitate to fire them at optimum range, spread should be such that provided you aim correctly you are likely to hit with most of the pellets at optimum range