14 replies to this topic

[Bison LeHawk]

Hello.

I'm still new to this game and have picked up some good info here and there and kind of starting to get a hang of things I think.

I have a question regarding mech building as far as armor goes. I can't really seem to find any info on any kind or guideline. I'm curious as to the amounts of armor you should be putting on different areas and how much on the back versus the front etc.

Any kind of guiding principles you guys use?

Thanks in advance.

[TooDumbToQuit]

As players get better the amount on the back drops down. I do about 8-12, better players go down to even 5.

Which is one reason testing your weapons into the back of a teammate tends to piss people off.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Bison LeHawk, on 07 November 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

Hello.

I'm still new to this game and have picked up some good info here and there and kind of starting to get a hang of things I think.

I have a question regarding mech building as far as armor goes. I can't really seem to find any info on any kind or guideline. I'm curious as to the amounts of armor you should be putting on different areas and how much on the back versus the front etc.

Any kind of guiding principles you guys use?

Thanks in advance.

Vital armor always maxed out (that means all torso sections).
For lights, max out the legs as well.

For heavies and assaults, it is okay to shave off some armor from the legs to free a bit of tonnage.

Cockpit, no less then 16 points. Some special snowflake mechs (like the Shadowhawk, Hunchback, Battlemaster) need full 18 points. Some like Hellbringer, Atlas and some more can get away with virtually no cockpit armor.

Rear-armor: I would recommend 6-10 points for newbies (who often get shot in the back thanks to positioning errors).
If you feel comfortable with backarmor and positioning skills (a.k.a. you will start to notice that you do not "use" your rear armor as often) lower the rear armor stepwise.

I personally run 2 rear armor on most mechs, which is a bit borderline but hey "all armor to front".

This is a tier 1 pleb tier min/maxed Hellbringer-Prime just to show you how armor can be distributed.

Head: enough to survive laser spray, a single gauss/ac20 slug or a double PPC hit.
Center and Side: 2 backarmor to pretend i have backarmor
Arm: no armor, this mech does not need arms.
Legs: Armor shaved off, legs are usually not exposed with the intended gameplay (playstyle) in mind.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 07 November 2016 - 12:28 PM.

[Sagedabluemage]

LikeUntoGod, on 07 November 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

As players get better the amount on the back drops down. I do about 8-12, better players go down to even 5.

Which is one reason testing your weapons into the back of a teammate tends to piss people off.

Yup this is true but a very important thing to think about is. what you do about the way your facing the enemy? Which part of my mech is exposed to the enemy and how can i play around with that? If you notice that you are turned away to the enemy most of the time like say the left torso or maybe your right arm think about how much armor it would need and adjust to those play styles. Food for thought but it all comes down to preference.

[aGentleWarrior]

I have usually around 6 on lights - 12 on assault back-armor.

Beside that i max torsos and then shave armor if needed.
Usually I have around 80% on leg armor (however lights and fast meds as much as possible).

Then of course i build some mechs with empty arms - these arms usually get a minimum of armor just to round up the available tonnage.

Recently i started to remove more and more armor of head... from multiple mechs and run now often 10 for example.
I usualy always die because of center torso is gone or some side torso on IS speedy mechs with XL engines.
In 2 years I remember maybe just 3,4 headshots (one at a very first encounter piloting Dire Wolf... that is sad!)

There are sometimes some special candidates... the crab for example needs every armor possibly avilable on legs it seems.

[aGentleWarrior]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 07 November 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

This is a tier 1 pleb tier min/maxed Hellbringer-Prime just to show you how armor can be distributed.

Head: enough to survive laser spray, a single gauss/ac20 slug or a double PPC hit.
Center and Side: 2 backarmor to pretend i have backarmor
Arm: no armor, this mech does not need arms.
Legs: Armor shaved off, legs are usually not exposed with the intended gameplay (playstyle) in mind.

Hey I run a very similar built however I have around 8 backarmor
Then 12 head armor which i have taken from the legs...

I dont remember beinged legged in it, and the fear from some backstabbers is huge ... but now i get courious to give it a try.

[Void Angel]

Bison LeHawk, on 07 November 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

Hello.

I'm still new to this game and have picked up some good info here and there and kind of starting to get a hang of things I think.

I have a question regarding mech building as far as armor goes. I can't really seem to find any info on any kind or guideline. I'm curious as to the amounts of armor you should be putting on different areas and how much on the back versus the front etc.

Any kind of guiding principles you guys use?

Thanks in advance.

Most of your armor should be in front, and you should have close to max. Very few builds benefit more from additional equipment/ammo than from the same tonnage of armor. So push armor forward on the torsos, and don't skimp on locations that people will want to shoot, or that are likely to take a lot of damage. The shape of your 'mech - and any idiosyncrasies it may have - affects how your armor needs to be allocated. For example, a good Centurion pilot can soak up an amazing amount of damage before dying from torso destruction; thus, savvy players target his legs. On the other hand, virtually no one tries to leg a Hunchback 4G (outside of competitive teams whose strategy is to "leg everything,") because the hunch is such an easy target and holds most of the guns anyway (it's also as tough as his center torso, but I digress.) Additionally, the hunch torso's rear hitbox is pretty tiny, so many players will shift armor ~46/2 on the hunch, and strip (some) armor from the legs to bring more ammo or heat sinks. Finally, the Atlas has huge torsos, and its arms don't shield very well, so I strip armor from the arms when I need more tonnage for a build - and I've still almost never lost an arm except by having the associated torso blown off.

After you decide how to allocate... iterate. Pay attention to how you're taking damage, especially if it kills you: if you're getting cored out from behind on a regular basis, try to be more aware of your surroundings - but put more armor on your back for the time being. Once you find that you're not getting blasted from behind regularly, pull a few points of armor off and see how that works for a few games. You should be doing this with armor balance, ammo composition, heat sinks, even guns. Always be ready to tune your 'mech's performance.

I used to run 16/18/16 or more on my Atlas' rear torsos - and that's way too much in today's tactical environment. But when I was running that much rear armor, it was because I was playing a front-line brawler in 8-man (it was a while ago) team play; since my job was to wade through the enemy line, creating mayhem and destruction, it made sense to have significant back armor, and I nearly always chewed through that rear allocation before I died. These days, team play metas are much different, and I'll usually end up taking entirely different 'mech(s) to the party. When I do play my Atlas, it has much less armor on its rear torsos, since I take damage almost entirely from the front.

In the end, of course, your own performance is king. If you still need more than the "optimal" amount of rear armor because you keep getting smashed from behind, take note that it's a piloting and awareness issue on your part - but increase the armor for now anyway. Remember that there's empirical reasons behind the meta (and learn to use it,) yet don't slave yourself to simply aping those builds - if you do, you'll always be second-rate.

[Rogue Jedi]

armor distribution completely depends on the Mech, as others have said you will usually want torso armor maxed out but front/rear distribution is chassis dependant, on some I go as much as 1/3 on the back, others I can get away with 1-2 points (never go 0 armor anywhere, if you have no armor a max range hit can start your Mech smoking, and if a section is unarmored anyone who targets your Mech will see the weak point)

as someone who loves the hit and run play-style I love the trend of putting almost no rear armor on every Mech, it means I can often take down the big Mechs with 1-3 volleys from a light or fast Medium Mech.

there are plenty of people who will be happy to tell you the exact armor distribution they use on a certain Mech if you ask but as with most things in this game just because it works for one person does not mean it will work for you

there is no perfect rule of armor distribution which will work perfectly for every Mech, if I have bothered to figure out the ideal armor distribution for that Mech that is worked out over dozens of games and is only valid for that chassis, in a few cases that variant

[Jingseng]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 07 November 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Vital armor always maxed out (that means all torso sections).
For lights, max out the legs as well.

For heavies and assaults, it is okay to shave off some armor from the legs to free a bit of tonnage.

Cockpit, no less then 16 points. Some special snowflake mechs (like the Shadowhawk, Hunchback, Battlemaster) need full 18 points. Some like Hellbringer, Atlas and some more can get away with virtually no cockpit armor.

Rear-armor: I would recommend 6-10 points for newbies (who often get shot in the back thanks to positioning errors).
If you feel comfortable with backarmor and positioning skills (a.k.a. you will start to notice that you do not "use" your rear armor as often) lower the rear armor stepwise.

some mechs have very clear head-hitboxes that scream "SHOOT ME IN THE FAAAAAAACE" - kodiaks and cyclops come to mind. On those, you'd want more rather than less armor (which is what the quoter is talking about.)

However, I'd recommend a bit more rear armor than that for a new player. (for a new player) in lighter mechs, you'd want mroe rear armor until you get the hang of making yourself a difficult target in your strafing runs... on heavies, until you get used to positioning and dealing with light mechs.

I would say 12-15 actually for some who is fresh, decreasing steadily as you get accustomed to the game. That is enough armor to protect from a well aimed PPC or LPL, or to catch a large spread of missiles while in retreat. In short, enough to keep you alive from your own mistakes.

The trade off is less front armor, which encourages sniping and cautious play... which are aspects of positioning and game play you'll want to develop anyway, and as you do, and branch intro brawling, flanking, etc, you'll naturally go looking for ways to get more front armor... and voila! you take it off the rear. You'll reach a comfortable area where you know about how much rear damage you can expect, generally, and float the rest to the front.

Edit: 12-15 being something in the heavy range, and going up or down accordingly as armor values scale. But basically enough to take a single big hit and turn around or run, or try to salvage the situation.

Edited by Jingseng, 07 November 2016 - 08:32 PM.

[Jumping Gigolo]

Lurmer here. Question: what is armor?

[Bison LeHawk]

Thanks everyone for the useful info. Glad to know I wasn't too far off base from my thoughts on it.

[Koniving]

Bison LeHawk, on 07 November 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

Hello.

I'm still new to this game and have picked up some good info here and there and kind of starting to get a hang of things I think.

I have a question regarding mech building as far as armor goes. I can't really seem to find any info on any kind or guideline. I'm curious as to the amounts of armor you should be putting on different areas and how much on the back versus the front etc.

Any kind of guiding principles you guys use?

Thanks in advance.

Generally if your mech is long range or heavily "DPS" oriented (requiring you to stare at the enemy for long periods of time), then 2 rear, all else front per torso.

It really depends on the hitboxes, I channel more armor to where the boxes are bigger, regardless of front or back. For example the Stalker's rear center torso is a huge square, where the Stalker's front center torso is barely 1/4th as wide as the rear CT but much longer. So sure I have to worry about LRMs raining from above, but my side torsos will protect the center torso as they are huge. So my rear STs might be 8 to 12, front STs to max, but my rear CT might be as high as 36. Though part of this is the Stalker has horrific turning capabilities and bad torso twist. Even with so much armor pushed to the back the Stalker can usually take more damage than the Atlas, despite having less armor and health (the secret is in the huge side torsos; bad for XL engines, great because a destroyed limb cuts all damage delivered to it by 60% before passing it on).

Lordred, famous for the two Perfect Screenshot threads... plays his Commando with almost no frontal armor.
Worth thinking about.

Lordred videos using the commando...

Spoiler

[invernomuto]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 07 November 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Cockpit, no less then 16 points. Some special snowflake mechs (like the Shadowhawk, Hunchback, Battlemaster) need full 18 points. Some like Hellbringer, Atlas and some more can get away with virtually no cockpit armor.

On the head I usually go down to 8-13 area. Why do you suggest to mantain 16-18?

[B L O O D W I T C H]

invernomuto, on 10 November 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

On the head I usually go down to 8-13 area. Why do you suggest to mantain 16-18?

To get over the 30 point threshold as a safety messure against dualgauss headhunters.

[invernomuto]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 10 November 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

To get over the 30 point threshold as a safety messure against dualgauss headhunters.

Tier 1 is a very scaring place to live