16 replies to this topic

[G4LV4TR0N]

Is it true that only 2x AMS can work simultaneously because game can't target more than 3 things at once?

I've heard this few times already, could anyone clarify this? There are mechs like Kit Fox "C" that come with triple AMS installed by default, in such case would it mean that the config is messed?

[Kotzi]

Never heard of something like that. Tripple AMS kills a lot of lurms.

[DANGEROUS]

Watching theb33f play a triple ams kitfox... he definatelly shoots down a gangload of missiles...

I want to believe that triple ams works, but i cannot confirm this because I dont have a single ams equiped on any of my mechs...

Terrain + radar derp = OP ... Add in ecm and your pretty much impervious to LRMs

[The Basilisk]

Uh the prob is more practical than you stated and infact easy to observe when you whatch vids of AMS mechs.

When you fire an AC5 on a mech that has 4 pts ct structure left and no armor...he dies. (if you hit)
When you fire an AC20 he dies too but you wasted a lot of dmg potential from your ammo --> tonnage. (AC20 ammo costs more tonnage for each shoot)

Same goes for AMS when you fire more than 2AMS with range and overload you are essentially wasting an unproportional ammount of ammo for missile kills due to the fact lots of ams shots hit dead missiles.

[Kotzi]

There would be no need to carry tripple ams if everyone would carry one for himself. But this would need a teambased mindsetting which most people seem to lack. Better equip one more heatsink or ton of ammo instead cause damage>victory.

[Appogee]

Kotzi, on 08 November 2016 - 01:52 AM, said:

Better equip one more heatsink or ton of ammo instead cause damage>victory.

Totally.

It's not like the ability to continue to inflict damage on the enemy - either through heatsinks or ammo - might aid in securing a team victory.

No. Victory depends on our collective ability to protect those too dumb to avoid LRMs by using terrain, a Radar Dep Module, or ECM.

Edited by Appogee, 08 November 2016 - 03:08 AM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

I love my Kit Foxes and cannot wait for the Hero.

I run TOWARDS streams of missiles.

And I'm calling semi-BS on the whole "LRMS is for lower level players, you never see them at higher levels and they are so easy to avoid".

I've spent the week since my surgery watching videos. All these guys and other players were Tier 1 or close. And I've seen a lot of LRMs and seen very good players die from them.

Recently, I was watching one where the player got smashed by LRMs even though he did his best to hide. I brought my wife in to see why I was ordering a better video card. The streams of missiles were beautiful to watch. I remember wanting to show her one scene where the missiles were hitting him while he was trying to hide because the missiles coming right at him were awesome looking.

That video was taken down within a few minutes. Understanding, players only want their best games posted.

I also look at the players in the game and I saw at least 4 people who post here playing with these guys.

I've also seen in FW on certain maps were LRMS can be deadly on defense, one reason being no one brought any AMS. I wish I was recording my games back then. -MS- was one unit that used LRMs well.

[Rogue Jedi]

LRMs can be great in the right hands, on the right map and if players are not ready for them.

If a group who know what they are doing set up for LRMs and know what they are doing they will be very effective, perhaps not quite as effective as playing full meta if they know how to use it but still pretty effective

[TooDumbToQuit]

I admit, AMS Overload was my first module....

[Koniving]

G4LV4TR0N, on 08 November 2016 - 12:18 AM, said:

Is it true that only 2x AMS can work simultaneously because game can't target more than 3 things at once?

I've heard this few times already, could anyone clarify this? There are mechs like Kit Fox "C" that come with triple AMS installed by default, in such case would it mean that the config is messed?

Actually... AMS, even with triple AMS, the game's AMS only targets a single missile at a time. What changes is the speed in which the missiles are shot down.

Each missile has a health of 1.5. AMS delivers 3 damage per second by default. 2 AMs delivers 6 damage per second. 3 AMS delivers 9 damage per second.
Modules enhance this.
One extending the AMS range, will give you more time before the missiles actually hit you, allowing you to destroy more missiles.
Another, AMS overload, used to double your AMS ammo consumption to double the output; now it no longer doubles consumption but it still sounds awesome and doubles (or close to doubles) the damage output per AMS equipped.

If your AMS setup delivers 9 damage per second, you're looking at 6 missiles destroyed per second.
Since it usually takes 2 seconds approximately for missiles to reach you after entering standard range of AMS, that means you'd destroy 12 missiles with triple AMS.

Standing in a group of mechs with AMS will destroy them even faster.

----------

Other interesting notes:
AMS will attack SRMs and Streaks. SRMs and Streaks, unlike LRMs, have 2 health each.
AMS doesn't really "target" anything at all, it's literally just a counter working on ticking away the nearest missile first.
Rapid missile streams from mechs with LRM or SRM missile speed quirks can overwhelm the AMS, making it effectively worthless (since it ticks away at the closest missile... that hits, next closest, that hits, next closest, that hits... AMS is effectively rendered useless).
Beware SRM + LRM combinations at close range, these will effectively do the same as above but won't even require lots of launchers to do it (as you almost never have enough time to destroy more than 2 SRMs with a double AMS before they hit, this means all the LRMs will hit you).
AMS likes to shoot through walls. It won't do a damn thing through walls. Disable with ~ when inside something and you want to keep your ammo from being wasted.
AMS and ammo can be destroyed through critical hits. If you have ammo but your AMS is red, it's been destroyed. If you suddenly, like abruptly, run out of ammo... the ammo went. Usually you'll know this happens, as you'll probably lose a limb or two in the process.

[Void Angel]

So, to summarize: No - triple AMS systems are not useless, and I'd never heard that claim before today. It sounds to me like some bittervets decided to exemplify the Wizards' First Rule with some ideological reasoning.

PS: there's only a 10% chance of ammunition explosion when a slot of ammo is destroyed in MWO, so normally you won't lose large chunks of your 'mech - but when you do get an ammo explosion, the damage is typically massive, and will often kill you unless you mount CASE.

Edited by Void Angel, 08 November 2016 - 01:46 PM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Koniving, on 08 November 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

Actually... AMS, even with triple AMS, the game's AMS only targets a single missile at a time. What changes is the speed in which the missiles are shot down.

Each missile has a health of 1.5. AMS delivers 3 damage per second by default. 2 AMs delivers 6 damage per second. 3 AMS delivers 9 damage per second.
Modules enhance this.
One extending the AMS range, will give you more time before the missiles actually hit you, allowing you to destroy more missiles.
Another, AMS overload, used to double your AMS ammo consumption to double the output; now it no longer doubles consumption but it still sounds awesome and doubles (or close to doubles) the damage output per AMS equipped.

If your AMS setup delivers 9 damage per second, you're looking at 6 missiles destroyed per second.
Since it usually takes 2 seconds approximately for missiles to reach you after entering standard range of AMS, that means you'd destroy 12 missiles with triple AMS.

Standing in a group of mechs with AMS will destroy them even faster.

----------

Other interesting notes:
AMS will attack SRMs and Streaks. SRMs and Streaks, unlike LRMs, have 2 health each.
AMS doesn't really "target" anything at all, it's literally just a counter working on ticking away the nearest missile first.
Rapid missile streams from mechs with LRM or SRM missile speed quirks can overwhelm the AMS, making it effectively worthless (since it ticks away at the closest missile... that hits, next closest, that hits, next closest, that hits... AMS is effectively rendered useless).
Beware SRM + LRM combinations at close range, these will effectively do the same as above but won't even require lots of launchers to do it (as you almost never have enough time to destroy more than 2 SRMs with a double AMS before they hit, this means all the LRMs will hit you).
AMS likes to shoot through walls. It won't do a damn thing through walls. Disable with ~ when inside something and you want to keep your ammo from being wasted.
AMS and ammo can be destroyed through critical hits. If you have ammo but your AMS is red, it's been destroyed. If you suddenly, like abruptly, run out of ammo... the ammo went. Usually you'll know this happens, as you'll probably lose a limb or two in the process.

I cried a little....AMS Overload used to be DOUBLE? It now goes from 3.5 to 6. An extra point of damage here would make a difference.

And yes, it is very important to learn to turn your AMS off and back on. If you are in the basement at the HPG, your AMS will fire but not hit anything so turn it off. And if LRMs are not threatening anyone, turn them off. Plus, if you have ECM and you are hidden, sharp-eyed pilots can find you by your AMS missiles.

I have not played my Kit Foxes in a long time because of always getting new Mechs. Wait, I have to say that if you are running any Kit Fox and you do not have the ECM arm on....You are great or stupid.

The IRON DOME never worried about missiles. I started off locking targets for LRM boats and getting my head shot off so i started starting back with them and also guarding against backstabbing lights.

The Hero Kit Fox, for the Kit Fox, is a big jump. A must buy. It adds two energy hardpoints to BOTH Torsos and they might have good quirks. So no more having to expose your body to shoot from your arms. With the ECM arm, one of the best builds was 4 MGs and 3 energy which now will go to 7 energy and 2 MGs which includes the ECM arm.

[Kmieciu]

LikeUntoGod, on 08 November 2016 - 08:20 PM, said:

A must buy. It adds two energy hardpoints to BOTH Torsos and they might have good quirks.

The side torsos won't have any quirks. 4 high mounted energy hardpoints is a great advantage in itself.
My favourite Kitfox build used to be UAC5 with 3ERML and ECM, because you could ridge-hump with the UAC5.
With the hero, you'll be able to have 6xERML, TC, 2JJ and 16 DHS. 28 damage alpha @ 462 meters is no joke. If you manage to trade using all 6 lasers, that's a 42 damage alpha strike. Quite a lot coming from a 30-tonner.

[Lily from animove]

could be tested by using a setup with 4 people or two which eath stand on a flat ground same distance and one with 2 amrs oen with 3 then shoot colleys of clan lrm20 streams and see how many damge is done after X volleys.

that way you know if around 50% more missiles were shot down or not.

I always thought a ams works like a HP drain on a missile cluster and missiles simply explode when a specific amount fo Hp is drained.

So just test this with a buddy and you will see a clear result if it affects damage or not.

Kotzi, on 08 November 2016 - 01:52 AM, said:

There would be no need to carry tripple ams if everyone would carry one for himself. But this would need a teambased mindsetting which most people seem to lack. Better equip one more heatsink or ton of ammo instead cause damage>victory.

there is no need for ams at all.

Edited by Lily from animove, 09 November 2016 - 09:10 AM.

[Koniving]

LikeUntoGod, on 08 November 2016 - 08:20 PM, said:

I cried a little....AMS Overload used to be DOUBLE? It now goes from 3.5 to 6. An extra point of damage here would make a difference.

Considering that they used to do 3 damage per second (instead of the now 3.5 as you said) to 6, it was double. Yeah. But that consumption, too, used to be double too. 2 tons with overload would last as long as 1 ton normally would... That goes quick.

[Dee Eight]

During last nights six invasion matches for the cbills bonus of the event, I saw some Liao unit with the designation FOX repeatedly actually had equipped AMS on a few units, because it seemed everyone on the clan side had brought at least ONE mech with LRMs (mine was an ecm shadowcat with twin A-LRM10s). Everyone also had a dakka mech, and the others seemed to be repeat dakka or energy weapons.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Dee Eight, on 09 November 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

During last nights six invasion matches for the cbills bonus of the event, I saw some Liao unit with the designation FOX repeatedly actually had equipped AMS on a few units, because it seemed everyone on the clan side had brought at least ONE mech with LRMs (mine was an ecm shadowcat with twin A-LRM10s). Everyone also had a dakka mech, and the others seemed to be repeat dakka or energy weapons.

I wish you had recorded this game. I think everyone should record their games.